Fred, what interpretation did you use? It seems to me like there’s room for one’s own ideas…
Example, what percentage of each RM did you start with on a first session for two weeks? This would be crucially important for what you’re talking about. The difference between using 5/10 pounds increment per workout and 20 would be rather large, to say the least.
Bryan, Thanks for your response. Humility goes a long way with me. Typically, I would have directed such comments directly to the individual. However, in this case I felt so strongly about the issue that I could not just sit back without sharing my words of caution to others based on “my personal experience.” Feedback was asked for, so I’m sharing my honest experience, otherwise I would not have given it. I’ve always lived by that rule. I’m also the guy in the gym, who is always torn between saying something and not when I see someone doing squats incorrectly. Unfortunately my humanity does not give in often enough.
First, I do agree with you that it does not say, “throw caution to the wind, or not to use common sense, or even to use poor judgment. ” Unfortunately, too often there are too many inexperienced and uneducated individuals out there (unlike us) that read such articles and do.
However, what it does state quite convincingly in your expanded HST program in weeks 11-13 where you cite your research is the following: “Train as scheduled even if soreness is present Once again bodybuilders, shoot for microtrauma without the paranoia of the overtraining doom-sayers.” (Training for Size and Strength: Advanced Training Planning for Bodybuilders, Part 3 by Bryan Haycock)
In the shortened version of the HST program you also state: ”There is no problem with a single set per body part as long as it is a maximum effort and/or the rep tempo and form is strictly controlled or the weight is extremely heavy preventing further sets.”
“Complete each workout using designated poundages even if muscles are sore from previous workout.” http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/hypertrophy-specific-training-01.htm)
It is this idea about lifting sore that I believe from my training and experience to be dangerous and unsound advice, especially when using one set with maximum effort and extremely heavy weight. Granted, it does say, “It is important to know the difference between an injury and ordinary muscle soreness. ”I whole heartily agree. Unfortunately I wonder if most people do.
The idea of training sore while using maximum effort and extremely heavy weight was counterintuitive to me as well, as I think it is for most educated and experienced lifters. Don’t get me wrong, and I have to apologize once again, this time for making it seem like I was placing all the blame on you and HST. On the contrary, I accept full responsibility for trusting the HST program that I should have known based my experience and training was contrary to sound principles that have always worked to increase muscle mass for bodybuilders. When lifting as heavy and intense as I do, I should have known that after doing 5’s, you must make sure that you are completely recovered. I won’t make that mistake again, no matter how compelling the research.
You probably know as well as I do that just because there is research to back it up doesn’t mean that it is true. Heck, just the other day, I was reading US News, Sept. 17, 2001, pg. 72, Saying No to Big Pharmacy Firms, that talked about scientists lying about medical studies because big corporations were paying them. Unfortunately, it’s also not that difficult to get published these days. Only if articles had to go through the rigorous of the Nature or Science Journals criteria before being published, only if.
I think I have made this clear already but just in case, I really do believe that overall, your concepts of periodization are solid. In fact, all of your research is solid. You do your homework, and I appreciate and respect you for that. Maybe you should have gone to Med school after all. And like I said the program worked well until I reached weeks 11-13, specifically week 12. I never even made it to the negatives. And it is that portion of the program that concerns me even more than the preceding part of the program where I tore my pec. Perhaps the program could use a little tweaking.
And especially being the (unfortunately) the litigious society that we are, may I suggest that you qualify your articles and upcoming book with a statement that alludes to the belief that one should not “throw caution to the wind, or not to use common sense, or even to use poor judgment,” for the typical user. Maybe even a reference to bio-individuality would be helpful.
Finally, you stated in your response to me, “I think it is important to hear from people who don’t like it because all I ever hear is about how much success people are having by applying the principles of hypertrophy to their training.” Well done. However, that assumes the typical user can put two and two together or that they would actually go through the trouble of telling you. Just because you have not heard anything doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
My bottomline is this: I do have to disagree with you that “HST is about principles that when applied properly and appropriately for each individual, will yield tremendous results.” From my empirical evidence that is not the case. And as a result, I caution others when applying these principles properly and appropriately.
On a side note, since you brought it up to establish your credibility, I have to ask you a side question. Did you obtain your great results from HST while you were a beta tester for Androsol? I think you put on, if I recall from our conversation at least 15-20 pounds that helped you to reach that 220 at 5’11. I would have to reverify this, but I do not believe any supposedly drug-free association whether bodybuilding, powerlifting, the IOC, collegiate and professional sports allows such a substance. While it may still make you legal, you would still be banned, and probably not natural, at least in my book.
Thank you for your time Bryan.
To Mufasa and SteveMcD, thank you for your feedback. I apologize if the post was “confusing” or seemed “suspicious.” I was attempting to provide feedback that would make my point without going into too much detail while also being tactful at the same time. Feedback or criticism is also a difficult challenge in that respect. I should have started off saying what I liked about the program before criticizing. I think this would have given me more credibility in what I shared with the forum. I’ll try to improve on that if I post again in their future, and I have a criticism to make. Please let me know if I have not cleared up any “confusion” or “suspicion”, I would appreciate your feedback.
To “1” about my using Adrosol. No, I was 220 when I tested Androsol for Biotest. After 2 weeks I was 230. 2 weeks following that I was 220 again. I have used it for 2 weeks at a time a few times since then. It still puts on 10 pounds each time but I lose those 10 pounds in the 2 weeks that follow.
When I first started using HST I was about 204.
By “natural” I mean I haven’t ever used anything you can’t get at GNC. Although I completely agree that with MAG-10 the line is blurring between supplement and steroid. Or better yet, is already blurred.
Best of luck with your training and Thanks again for sharing your experiences.
How’s the book coming, and when should it be ready for sale?
Mufasa, the book is coming. It has been difficult to gather up all the research because I have been working on getting Hypertrophy-Specific Nutrition (HSN) going. www.Hypertrophy-Specific.com
I am shooting for the end of Feb to have the book ready. I sure hope people find something useful in it.
Bryan, I’m thinking about giving HST a go pretty soon here. Are there any specific diet recommendations that you make to go with the program? Or is it just, “eat a few hundred calories above maintenance level”? Or, given that the posters above haven’t said anything about diet changes but have still seem to have gained impressive amounts, is it that the program will naturally stimulate your appetite? (I took a cursory look through your website - which is quite nice, BTW - but didn’t see anything specifically relating diet and HST. If I just missed it, a URL would be fine.) Thanks for your help.
Nick to Tony G. Oustanding results sounds like you have done some really good work. What type of siet did you use while training with HST? Thanks!
Check the message board on the thinkmuscle.com use the search engine diet has been addressed hit or miss several times on the HST board.
A few things stand out. Bryan has mentioned daily kcal = bw(or lbm) x 16. He also suggest getting one gram of protein per lb of bodyweight and for the 15 and 10 rep weeks use 50% carbs because of the increased insulin sensitivity and for the lower reps use less than 40% carbs. Hope that helps.
Hmmm, interesting. Appreciate the tips. Anyone else? Bryan?
I ate massive eating style, at around 500-700 calories above maintenance. I will probably use don’t diet to lose the small amount of fat that I gained during the first cycle while still training HST style. Bryan has said that HST optimizes your training, and that you should optimize your diet for your desired results. The training should stay the same. The new news letter on his site goes into this in more detail.
Steve