Hurting Yourself On Purpose

Training Bodybuilding
21

At the risk of not getting in the angry spirit of the thread–

One would think that bodybuilders would be less prone to injuries than most athletes. I disagree that most injuries are caused by stupidity. In my experience, most injuries are caused by overuse, which is exacerbated by some particular incident–sometimes stupid, sometimes unlucky, and often extremely minor.

But it seems like it would be easier for a bodybuilder to train around local injuries. When a quarterback injures his shoulder throwing, it’s not always easy for him to stop throwing. When a bodybuilder injures his shoulder military presing, so what? Time to work on another shoulder exercise, or bring up a lagging bodypart. When an oly lifter starts accumlating some knee pain, how likely do you think it is that he’ll stop squatting? A bodybuilder might be able to drop the squats for a while and work his quads with isolation exercises. And so on.

22

He is so right, why even bother, we are just going to die anyway … Wheres my cheese cake Damn it!

23

Breathing is bad for your body. Nothing worse than oxygen. Free radicals, and all that. I tried to give it up once but that only lasted a minute. I’ve tried many times since but only for a few seconds at a time. In the end I decided that it might be bad for my body but the alternative was worse.

None of the exercises you listed done correctly are bad for you. And even if they are done poorly they are nowhere near as bad for you as NOT doing them. However that doesn’t mean doing more and more and more is necessarily better for you, if you squatted every hour, 8x a day, 7 days a week I don’t think you’d cope with the stresses, as an example. But the human limits are far beyond what most people do.

Although a lot of people do develop chronic injuries.

But heck, a lot of people who don’t exercise get chronic injuries from daily activities - and then when old and weak, daily activities are so far above their conditioning level that opening a window is like a bodyweight clean and jerk and results in massive trauma.

24

www.bavaria.nl

I ONCE WORE ARMOR !

I WOULD HUNT ANIMALS WITH TEETH AS LONG AS MY ARMS ! ! !

That’s why God gave me this body. That’s what it’s meant to do. I was even so succesfull in hunting animals with teeth as long as my arms, there aren’t many of them left.

So now I lift heavy stuff.

Sure, there are injuries. Even people lifting with good form get injured now and then. But not as much as with the “hunting animals with teeth as long as my arms”.

25

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
www.bavaria.nl

I ONCE WORE ARMOR !

I WOULD HUNT ANIMALS WITH TEETH AS LONG AS MY ARMS ! ! !

That’s why God gave me this body. That’s what it’s meant to do. I was even so succesfull in hunting animals with teeth as long as my arms, there aren’t many of them left.

So now I lift heavy stuff.

Sure, there are injuries. Even people lifting with good form get injured now and then. But not as much as with the “hunting animals with teeth as long as my arms”.[/quote]

Dude! Your freaking awesome!

26

[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
At the risk of not getting in the angry spirit of the thread–

One would think that bodybuilders would be less prone to injuries than most athletes. I disagree that most injuries are caused by stupidity. In my experience, most injuries are caused by overuse, which is exacerbated by some particular incident–sometimes stupid, sometimes unlucky, and often extremely minor.[/quote]

Good point. I’ve had my share of injuries, more from sports than lifting, but I’m pretty conscious of my form and can only think of one incident where it was unquestionably the cause of an injury (ego and an inattentive spotter making me grind out an extra couple of reps of 20-rep squats and fucking up my back for almost six months).

27

I punch myself in the balls for twenty minutes before I go to the gym, that way my workouts never hurt.

28

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I punch myself in the balls for twenty minutes before I go to the gym, that way my workouts never hurt. [/quote]

i gotta try that. this was just what i was looking for! nice one, man.

29

Couch potatoes get injured. Babies and children get injured. People have had heartattacks, and broken penises, and delisuions, and back spasms to pain while having sex. God made us weak, injurable beings called humans. By your logic, I should not eat (risking allergies) walk outside (smog, traffic, etc) stay inside (radon, monoxide, ceiling cave in) eat protein (kidney) etc…

In my opinion god gave me a life to use my free will and be STRONG. I will live STRONG, I will die STRONG, and in the meantime I will be STRONG. The only way to maintain that strength is by working out, intense. This has a risk of injury like everything else in life. I would rather blow out my shoulder shoulder pressing 100 dbs or blow out my knee squatting 500+, than get diabetes from unhealthy eating, atrophy from disuse, or ANY of the alternative health issues from the sedentary lifestyle.

Life is a series of risks. Man up. Step up. Live your life. Do not hide in fear of potential injuries.

30

Yay. I’m glad to hear all you knuckleheads are getting stronger by working out. Thanks for the info.

The point made is that it doesnt seem natural OR healthy to perform some movement, whether its a curl, bench press, or squat over and over and over until you can no longer move. The wear and tear on the joints, the constricted nature of the movement, and the limited transfer to real world applications seems absurdly detrimental.

Think about what your doing when you lift. You put a big weight on your back, and then you sit down in a proscribed, unatural and arbitrary movement. Then you do it again till you can’t walk. In the first place, that seems ridiculous.

Your not ‘training’ for anything you would do in your regular day to day life. Secondly, it causes injuries on the pure and simple fact your body was not meant to hold 500 pounds on your back and then sit, with your back straight, your abs tight, until your legs start to cry.

The counterarguments can be dismissed in the following manner-
Bodybuildinger is not a strength sport. it is for aesthetics. Bodybuilding mandates such principles as TUT negatives which have little to no bearing on strength. SO, do not continue to claim ‘i got stronger from weightlifting, therefore its good’. Silence yourself from mediocrity and stop typing.

Secondly, there has been repeated mention of ‘if you lift with good form, you wont get injured.’ What about those who lift with good form and get injured?

More importantly, I use the term natural because it reflects what IMO the human body was and was not designed to do.

Take for example, a group of 50 students walking to class. They walk to class, step up the stairs, sit down, and write for an hour. How many injuries do you think occured in this 1 hour time span from relatively normal(…natural…) activity.

Now, take your average weightlifting gym with roughly 50 weightlifters. First, they start out with a warmup(so you dont get injured obviously). Then, they load 200+ pounds above their head, lie down, and move it back and forth till they achieve some goal or threshold(pain, soreness or fatigue).

Then, they move to the dip machine, where they do the same type of movement, but with a different angle. Then, they go to a bench, lie down, and move a weight from their ears to the sky(skullcrushers). At this point, they are thoroughly exhausted, sore, and pumped.
But, taking 50 people working out in a given gym, how many of them do you think left the gym with some type of injury?

How many people are injured out of 50 after an intense workout? More then the number that walk to class, or run for miles, or even move boxes all day for a living. Think about your gym, and each and everyone that leaves through the front doors and ask, are they injured, did they hurt themselves today, and if not, when will they get injured?
See the difference?

Finally, my post offers no recourse, no magic solution to bodybuilding, health, and gains. The question-is bodybuilding natural AND healthy- was raised. Granted I am playing devils advocate, but do think about it. Injuries from Bodybuilding(not strength exercises or sports) are common and somewhat unpreventable even with good form. They will happen.

So, what cost does bodybuilding have?
I workout. I lift. Yet the fact remains that lifting seems unatural and injurious.

31

Well then hawk I really have to ask this, if you think its so injury prone, why do you lift weights?

32

Everything about the human body is made to adapt and overcome the stresses placed upon it, as long as you give your body enough time to re-couperate.

It grows back better than before, with a better ability to do whatever it was that you beat it down with, weather it was running a marathon, or powerlifting.

If you sit on your ass and do nothing, your body will adapt to that as well, and it’ll get very good at doing that, yet that would be far more destructive than any weight training routine.

33

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
bunch of babbling crap
[/quote]

so what?

34

To the OP,
I don’t think you are an idiot, and this is a valid question.

I am new to strongman. I hurt on a regular basis, be it my knees, shoulders or mostly my back. The vets I am learning from all have a bad joint or two. Most of these guys have some type of scar from surgery.

So yeah, we do this knowing injury is a real possibility, and as smart as you train, chances are if you push your limits on a regular basis, something has to go. And physics tell us iron and stone is much harder than muscle.

Is it worth it? Hell yes! Of all the things you can do that are bad for you, hard training is certainly the less of evils. You could get hit by a truck any time you get in your car. Was that trip worth it?

Basically, you have to train smart and prepare for the worst. If it happens, know your body and seek the proper care. Don’t let your fear beat out your desires.

35

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
Granted I am playing devils advocate, but do think about it. Injuries from Bodybuilding(not strength exercises or sports) are common and somewhat unpreventable even with good form. They will happen.

So, what cost does bodybuilding have?
I workout. I lift. Yet the fact remains that lifting seems unatural and injurious.[/quote]

Tell me why you’re on this board if you think lifting is unnatural and injurious. Why do you lift, Hawkson? Why do you put yourself at such risk? You really should take better care of yourself, you know.

Playing devil’s advocate is all about testing the quality of the original argument and identifying weaknesses in its structure. Do you even know where the term comes from?

The main problem is, there’s no ‘original argument’ here-- everyone lifts for different reasons, everyone pays varying amount of attention to form and injury prevention, everyone has a different approach in the gym.

You’ve neither tested the quality of the argument for lifting nor identified any substantive weaknesses in anyone’s stated rationale for doing so. You come off like a college freshman in the first flush of an interest in logic and philosophy-- that is to say, you demonstrate little intellectual self-awareness, you are careless with your terms, and your argumentation is weak. Go home, troll.

36

I don’t think movement is unnatural, if anything, not moving is unnatural.

Yes you could lift weights and hurt yourself, however you can do far more harm with every season of seinfeld DVDs, an ounce of weed and 20 cartons of cocoa pops.

But who will have the better body?

For me personally, I’m MUCH healthier now than before I lifted weights. I look better naked too, which is also a benefit.

37

Hawkson101, the jig is up.

A cursory review of your prior posts revealed an interesting nugget. Seems you injured yourself through poor form, trying for heroic weights, or something else, and now you’ve decided to come out swinging at a lot of folks around here. It’s not a good idea to call someone a knucklehead if you’re trying to convince them of something.

First, though, let’s out your buddy. The only person to defend you on this thread or even take your post seriously said the following:

[quote] combatmedic wrote:
I never barbell bench anymore. It does nothing but hurt my shoulders. I don’t feel it in my chest.[/quote]

Sounds to me like combatmedic doesn’t know what he’s doing, since countless people find the bench press to be both safe and effective.

But let’s let your words stand on their own. This is a greatest-hits compilation…a best-of featuring your inane, ignorant remarks that demonstrate you’ve got a lot of learning to do, as do most of us.

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
“I also have a shoulder problem. I am thinking about permanently switching to dumbells for life.”

“Which machine is the -Rear delt machine-. it was listed in an article, yet I have no idea which one that is.”

“I put down the barbell bench 3 weeks ago for life. I have this nagging suspicion that your body is not designed for 1 constant motion without change.”

“I have mild inflamation of the biceps part of the shoulder. What chest/shoulder exercise is the safest so as to not agravate the injury?”

“YOU DONT WANT AN ARCHED BACK. You want your back to be in a neutral position. Arching it will lead to stress and back problems.”

“I have a lower back problem. Currently, its not serious, and it is just tight and some soreness in the disks.”

"Injuries resulting from the current bodybuilding craze(its the thing to do) will have to be fixed and researched. "

“Wouldnt your core get stronger from specific core work then from squatting? Isnt the leg press more effective at quad hypertrophy?”

“Is leg trainig for the sake of other body parts effective? Do the squat and DL really effect overall performance?”

“Now, body is all out of wack. When I squat, I use my right leg much more then my left. As a result, my right quad is significantly tighter then my hamstring, and when I walk or stand, I lock out my right knee. By locking out, I place pressure on my right hip, which leads up to my back, which is why I have lower back problems. My body feels like its falling apart, and I feel like lifting wont help it. I am leaning towards going towards sports, running, and back workouts and thats it.”
[/quote]

That last one is a gem, ain’t it folks? Now tell us, Hawkson-- seems like you injured yourself and now want to apply your experience to everyone else, who remain blissfully uninjured and happy in the gym.

38

Sano-Very good research. Excellent. I appreciate you bringing those posts into play because they predicate the thought process that has led to my current understanding that BBuilding is unnatural(although some questions, such as the on the rear delt machine highlight my interest in learning)

To those that are curious, I have a slight nagging back pain, although nothing serious. That got me thinking-what the hell am I doing knowing I could be hurting myself for life?
Specifically, “Is getting ripped at 220 and 21 years old worth being fucked at 200 and 60 years old?” The only thing you really have in life is your health and your mind. Waste one, and your half out of luck.

As for the technicality of ‘devils advocate’, the first and somewhat neutral post was ‘Granted the gains from bodybuilding(looking big) are good, but in your opinion, is bodybuilding worth it knowing you are just hurting your body for the rest of your life?’

Therefore the original question(not argument) was whether or not you think it is worth getting huge at the chance and sacrifice of an injury. SkyzykS correctly pointed out that if you don’t assume lifting causes injury, then the question cannot be answered. To restate, if you don’t believe that you will get injured from lifting, then the cost of lifting is none, and it is indeed worth it.

BUT, as stated originally, there have been recent articles and numerous posts concerning injuries. How many lifters have injured themselves from lifting? Who knows. But take a look at the last two days of posts on the Building a Better Body forum. How many concern injuries or injury prevention and rehabilitation?
Now, take a look at the ‘Over 35 Lifter’ and see how many concern injury prevention and rehabilition. Clearly, I am not claiming that the frequency of injury in that forum is not related to age. I am merely suggesting that the sacrifices made when you are younger and eager to lift, have significant consequences later in life.

Therefore, SkyzykS’s reply that there is no cost in lifting, and other’s reply that they are healthy and therefore lifting has no cost is refuted by the ample amount of evidence stating lifting does cause injury.

So…the orignal argument is that lifting is great, no worries mate.
The devils advocate position is thus-lifting is great, but certainly not natural, and beware of the cost.

BTW, i dont like using the term ‘natural’ because obviously its very subjective. But for the purposes of my frame of mind, natural is anything your individual body is built to do.
‘Individual’ is used because I can not bench 500 or weigh 250 lbs, nor was I designed to do so, but an NFL lineman can indeed make his body bench 500 and weigh 300 lbs.

Except, even then it is unnatural for them—
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2004-12-29-sleep-apnea_x.htm

39

Curiously, the original title of this thread was something like ‘Bodybuilding and Injury-Is it worth it?’
The text of the thread was meant to provoke thought and response with a seemingly absurd statement-bodybuilding is bad. The title was changed by a mod, to ‘hurting yourself on purpose’ which frames the question in a more argumentative and controversial way.

Clearly, it did its job.

40

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
But for the purposes of my frame of mind, natural is anything your individual body is built to do. [/quote]

Your logic is stupendously flawed. There is no a priori way to determine what a body is capable of doing. If I think I’m capable of lifting a certain amount of weight and I lift more, I was wrong originally. Right? Right. So when do I know what I was “built to do”?

How do you know what your body built to do if you don’t test it? Push the limits? A few years ago I couldn’t squat 135 pounds safely and with good form. Should I have given up and said “Well, damn. That’s the limit of my body, and so I’ll stay at this weight forever”? Hell no. If I did that I’d rather be dead.