It’s a 100% Clomid. You were taking too much. I had exactly the same symptoms at the same rate you are. It will pass and you will be like a new man. FYI - I found that taking magnesium and potassium helped with the anxiety (as did Xanax when It really got bad). Yeah man - I don’t think either of us will ever dose that sh@t as high as we did for sure. Had no issues at 12.5mg/day
Well I was feeling so good that I posponed getting labs done. (Sleep normal, normal erections, no anxiety). Then all of a sudden today I’m feeling abnormal… no energy or motivation, anxiety, racing thoughts. Still thinking it may be clomid messing with my head… bad Stuff. Been 20 days since taking any. Will get labs on Tuesday for sure and see where things are. Erections are still normal which is a good sign. But the emotional sides suck
I was going through my log – and my results are very consistent with yours – Anxiety and insomnia the first two weeks or so were horrible – then I started having some normal sleep patterns and less anxiety around week three – and then then intermittent anxiety spells. It’s all part of the Clomid. That shit is absolutely nasty. You were wise to get bloods – because it could also mean that your testosterone maybe crashing somewhat and estrogen is staying relatively higher. In my case, I started pinning some hCG around the fourth week or so with a little Androgel - after two weeks on this I felt like Superman again – and continued this for a few more weeks – and then, ironically – started running Clomid again – but on a much lower dose – and had very good success – with no anxiety – and very minimal sleep disruption. I did that for a month to see if I could hold my testosterone levels on my own – and come off the Androgel on hCG. – Six weeks after that my T levels were crashed again – and I basically went on TRT for life. Of course – this time – since all of the Clomid icleared my system – had absolutely no anxiety issues whatsoever.
So here’s my advice - get blood work and post back – if T levels and estrogen are normal – you should actually start feeling better by the fourth week or so – which is coming up. In the event that your E2 is a little higher – you could run a very low-dose AI like Arimidex just to bring it down a bit. If your testosterone levels have dropped significantly – then I would do is I did – and start running some hCG and try a full HPTA restart. Ps make sure you get Free Test included in your blood work as well and if possible - SHBG.
Clomid is notorious for raising SHBG, which by its very nature binds free testosterone and makes it less available - (producing low T symptoms even when you have normal T).
The cyclic nature of the side effects is just horrible. If it weren’t for the blood work I would definitely think I had crashed and just injected test. I will stick with it a little longer and see how it goes. Blood work on Tuesday, results by wed hopefully. This thread has been very helpful to keeping my sanity ha. Maybe it will help someone else in the future.
Here’s a little update:
Since my restart I have been supplementing 5000 unit viatamin D and fish oil
Recently (the pst week or so) I added 50mg zinc, 25mg DHEA, 25mg pregnenolone just to help with levels. Well it’s turns out pregnenolone has side effects including : anxiety, overstimulation, insomnia, irritability. I’m definitely stopping both DHEA and Pregnenolone NOW. Labs tomorrow morning will let me know where T and E stand. This had been quite the journey. Hope things mellow out
D and fish oil are important for health and wellbeing. Keep it up. As for the other two - you’d be best getting bloods checked to assess your levels. You may not need any progesterone or DHEA unlesss you are over 40. I personally take DHEA - 50 mg per day – and prone to anxiety – but I’ve had no ill affects from it at all. Then again - I was on the low side of normal when I started. Also, make,sure you are not taking any workout supplements with stimulants. Personally I don’t think your anxiety has anything to do with the supplements you were taking. However, you never know – it may exacerbate something related to the Clomid and definitely a good thing to drop them for now.
Post back bloods when you get them and stay strong brother.
Thanks again for the support jim.
Ok labs are back taken 730am 6/20:
TT: 493
LH: 4.5
FSH: 2.5
SHBG: 33.1
E2: <6 (I took 12.5mg of aromasin about 12 hrs prior to test because I assumed I was having an estrogen rebound. I did this before and e2 came back to normal by the next week when I tested.)
This is after 2 nights of shit sleep. I will give it a little longer, And retest weekly. FSH and LH are around the levels I had pre testosterone. At this point I’m sure I washed out all the beneficial isomoer of clomid and my hpta is functioning without SERM stimulation. I would prefer to be above 600 as I am 29 years olds. If levels keep declining I will hopefully find a TRT doc who is willing to treat someone my age. My last two tests were taken around 830am as opposed to 730am. Not sure if that had an effect on my level.
Ok - so a few things jump out at me -
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first, yes, you are correct, your TT numbers are too low for a 29 YO. Notice how your LH dropped since the last bloodwork. This means that your pituitary is not sending as much of a signal to produce testosterone - which accounts for the drop in TT numbers.
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Your SHBG is tad on the high side - but Clomid does that. When SHBG goes up - it binds your free testosterone, making less bioavailable. This means that if you are low-normal TT for your age - you are likely on the low side of Free T. Free T is what gets things done.
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you crashed your E2 as you noted - that aromasin is powerful stuff. no need to take any more AI for now. (Incidentally, I did the same thing myself - not knowing what was causing my anxiety, I assumed it was from high estrogen so I started cranking an AI).
Here’s what I would recommend -
Keep taking Vitamin D and fish oil as you are doing - and throw in Zinc as well.
Wait another 3 -4 weeks and get labs again. You have only been off Clomid for about a month or so (maybe not even) - and it does take a full 28 days to clear. Then - you need a few weeks to see if your HPTA is holding up. You can’t confirm that yet - even with these results - because it’s been a bit too soon. Keep training, take the sups (do not take any supplemental Test) and on your next blood test - you need to get Free T checked. Your T will either bounce back up a bit (and once you are over mid-500’s you are pretty good to go) - or it will be lower. If lower - (like low 400’s or so - probably TRT time - but you are young and otherwise healthy - so take it one step at a time). How has the anxiety / restlessness been?
Hey jim, all that sounds good. I contacted a clinic that does trt in my area and had good talk with them. She told me they treat younger men all the time which is good news, but they are booked til aug. The anxiety is still there but it’s not as bad as it was a few days ago. Really hoping it’s totally gone soon. I had a great week last week and this week just sucks
Aside from the anxiety I feel pretty good. I’ve lost a few pounds of muscle but my strength seems to be the same. (Possibly water weight)? Still able to perform sexually. I noticed nocturnal erections had returned last night so my estrogen is probably improving. The only problem I really have at this point is getting myself to get out and do things because the anxiety makes it very difficult to do anything! I’m really leaning toward the pregnenolone causing the anxiety. But it almost exactly the same feeling as before, so it could very well be the clomid. I believe it’s been 5 or so days since the anxiety restarted. That was after about 10 days of anxiety followed by 5 days anxiety free days (which were amazing). I’ll keep pushing on telling myself that this feeling will not last forever.
sorry to ask, but why are you using aromasin instead of arimidex? aromasin kills estrogen and if you crash your e2 its really hard to get up again?
Low estrogen causes anxiety as well and to the point above – be careful with Aromasin - it’s less forgiving than Arimidex. But either way, you definitely do not need any AI. I think you are over the hump now – and should see much lessening of your anxiety.
Well last night was terrible. Anxiety/insomnia as bad as the beginning. I broke and gave myself 150mg test cyp. I will do this for a few weeks with HCG 250iu 2x week and try again. I still feel very anxious but I am functioning at work. Not sure if I want to do low dose clomid or tamoxifen. I think I can restart. I just wish I knew the origin of the anxiety
Well – as someone who has suffered severely from anxiety and Clomid sides – I don’t blame you for pinning Test. The question is – are you feeling better from it? From personal experience, a week after pinning the hCG solo – I felt a world of relief - then proceeded to a restart with 12.5mg Clomid at night with very minimal issues and good results. Check with a TRT doc - I think you said you had an appointment.
I’m just going to see if I can get back to my normal mood/sleep/energy and then attempt to restart. I’m not feeling much better. Definitely felt better yesterday. But feeling better than last night when all hell broke loose. I was actually feeling like I was going be able to sleep without trazodone last night. I was very relaxed then it all fell apart. I didn’t sleep more than 1-2 hours at most and still feel wired.
So just an update… starting to feel normal again. Body is wore out from being overstimulated and not sleeping but I’m looking forward to some quality sleep tonight. It’s my hope that thats the last of the clomid leaving my system as it had been almost a month since taking any. Or maybe the testosterone is affecting my system more deeply rooted? Now that I can think clearly I have thought of 3 separate plans.
- Nolvadex 10mg eod
- Clomid 12.5mg eod
- Take nothing and let my hpta restart on its own
I have only taken a total of 300mg test cyp in the past 2 months. I’m totally done with high dose serm. Years ago before starting injecting I used a research chem clomid with no ill effects. I assumed I was taking upwards of the doses I was recently taking but maybe it was severely underdosed. I’m pretty confident my system can restart but I can’t take any more anxiety like that. Curious to know anyone’s input on this
Glad you are feeling better. Before jumping in to another restart I would keep up the HCG for another 2-3 weeks just so your body equalizes a bit. 500 IU EOD should work nicely. This will kick start your body’s production. Then the day after your last pin run clomid 12.5 mg /day at night for 3 weeks. Wait 5 weeks after that and get bloods done again.
This has been much harder than I ever imagined. Still dealing with constant anxiety. Trying to get in to see a primary care doctor soon. I believe my constant high levels (900-1500) of testosterone for 4 or so years has taken a toll on my brains wiring. I will keep fighting. Did the hcg now working the rest of the test out of my system… last lab check was TT 593. E2 16. Will see how my fsh and LH recover with some low dose serm
I don’t think the higher testosterone fried your brain wiring. If anything – testosterone can decrease anxiety – so long as other hormones are properly maintained. I think this is a combination of the Clomid – creating intense anxiety – and then putting your self through a roller coaster of going on Testosterone, then off – then on again – and then crashing your E2. The best course of action would be to come off everything and try a low dose Serm. Given your experience with Clomid, and your current anxiety, you could try Nolvadex with an AI. How did you feel on HCG? I’d be tempted to have you run HCG 500 EOD with .5 Adex E3D for 2-3 weeks, then run Nolvadex 10 mg / Day for 3
Weeks with the AI. Check out the restart sticky for dosing as well. If worse comes to worse, make an appointment with Defy Medical (but they would take a while to see you). In any case, I’m convinced it’s the roller coaster – the SERMs leaving your system – then you getting anxious and applying testosterone, coming off again, adding Testosterone, etc. So, yes, doing this could temporarily mess with your brain, but not the way that you think. You didn’t do permanent damage taking the Testosterone.