Well gents - partial bloods are back and they Rock!
Total T 902 Ng/dl (300-1100)
Free T 130 pg/dl (55-150)
LH 4.5 (1.6-8)
Fsh 4.5 (1.5-9.3).
This on 25 mg Clomid EOD and then switching to 12.5 ED. I’m stunned. This proves KSMAN’s protocol that you do not need to take massive doses of Serms. I’m waiting on E2 and the final test will be to get labs in 2 weeks or so to see how the HPTA is holding up but this is fantastic news!
You referred to better sleep, less anxiety and brain fog.
How would you characterize energy and mood?
Mood and energy much better. I need to wait a month and then get bloods done to really see how I am holding up.
I don’t have the Testosterone Buzz - but feeling ok.
Just got the remaining labs -
First the good news : lipid profile is the absolute best I’ve ever had: Total Cholesterol 155, HDL 78, LDL 65, Tiglycerides 55.
Now the other:
-Estradiol 49 too high (even taking Adex .25 -.5 / week)
I will be making an appt with a TRT doc as well as seeing my endo end of the month and will report back.
Well brothers, my saga has come full circle. My current bloods, after waiting a month and a half after the HPTA restart indicate less then ideal testosterone (and a pretty messed up Thyroid indicative of Hashimoto’s disease which runs in my family):
Total Test 437 Ng/dl
Free Test: 75.2 PG/DL (35-155)
Estradiol: 25
LH: 2.7 (1.5-9.3)
SHBG: 38 (10-50)
prolactin 2.7 (1.5-9.3)
TSH: 3.45 (.4-4.5)
T3 Free 2.9 (2.3-4.2)
T4 Free 1.3 (.8-1.8)
Thyroid Peroxidase AB. 18 (<9 IU/ml) High
Thyroglobulin Antibodies 9 (<1). High
Reverse T3 16 (8-25)
Based on the above, I’m likely going to go TRT. No sense trying to mess around with additional restarts or natty Test boosters at 50 years old.
I’m seeing an Endo next week to get his thoughts. A TRT doc already suggested TRT for me and that was after running clomid for a month with much higher Test. My cardiologist has been recommending it to me for 6 months. Time to get real and get this squared away.
Welcome to the club.
Hey jim, your clomid side effects seem identical to mine. EXTREME anxiety and restlessness that comes and goes. Sleep can be good some nights and nearly impossible other nights. I’ve stopped taking it but still having lingering effects. Do you think it was for sure the clomid? And how long did your side effects last after stopping it. Did you feel nolvadex was Better emotionally?
Cholesterol: Better near 180, <160 known association with increased all-cause mortality. Are you using a statin drug? That can have negative effects for some people.
“Estradiol 49 too high (even taking Adex .25 -.5 / week)”
You need to be on a steady dose for some time for the labs to be useful. .25 - .5 is not good enough. If you feel that you know the Adex dose that was used for 7-14 days prior to the labs, increase by a factor of 49/22 where the goal is 22pg/ml.
Are you now taking DHEA? A few guys freely convert DHEA–>E2 in their adrenals.
Many cases of thyroid autoimmune disease are thought to be caused by elevated TSH, often from low iodine AND selenium deficiency.
The process that makes T4 produces free radicals that an enzyme normally clean up. But that enzyme must have selenium as part of its structure. If the free radicals are not cleaned up, cell damage occurs and the immune system cleans up the wreckage. Then the immune process can mistake normal thyroid tissue as foreign and you are auto-immune. There are cases of Hashimoto’s resolving with ample selenium and ample iodine.
Find high potency B-complex multi-vits that list 150mcg iodine AND 200mcg selenium, as well as other trace elements.
TSH should be closer to 1.0, you can’t go by the ranges, those are ridiculous. fT3 and fT4 should be mid-range or a bit higher.
Thyroid function is a rather complicated thing. But easy to access by checking oral body temperatures. Please see last paragraph in this post.
Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category - #2 by KSman
Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.
It took nearly a month to feel better. SERMs take about 30 days to fully clear based on the 5-7 day half life
Thanks for the great info. Feeling great now. Stated selenium recently (and TRT a few months ago). Getting new labs in a few months.
Thanks jim. SERM side effects (or so I believe) are driving me insane. I stopped taking clomid 4 days ago. Having to take trazodone to sleep. Anxiety sucks !
It’s 100 % from the Clomid. What were you dosing?
After thing cleared out -I attempted an HPTA restart with only 12.5 mg Clomid and had minimal sides and it jacked my Test to nearly 1,000 ng/dl. The point is - you don’t need much at all, but gym lore called for massive doses (50mg/ day plus Nolvadex). Disaster.
I feel for you bro. Just hang in there it gets a little better each day. I found taking potassium and magnesium helped with the anxiety (as did Xanax).
By the way I wanted to answer your question on Nolvadex - yes definitely better (no anxiety at 10-20mg / day) but it doesn’t do nearly as good a job as stimulating the pituitary for Test production as Clo. The key is - keep Clomid dosing low - 10-12.5 mg is all you need. Had minimal sides at that dose - (not as much restful sleep but you can take some MK677 to combat that.). Overall it wasn’t bad at all and light years better than when I was dosing Clomid at 50 mg/ day.
I ask so tried 25 mg EOD and that wasn’t too bad either.
Initially was following scally restart protocol… big mistake. 100mg/day of clomid plus 40 nolvadex. only lasted 4 days of that before I went absolutely insane and quit the meds. Worst night was having extreme hot flashes/ no sleep… had to leave work early the next day. Was thinking it was T withdrawal so I took a final shot of T(this was April 30). Having the t did calm the anxiety but I was still edgy for a little while. 10 days later I started clomid 25mg/ day and felt good up until this past Sunday when I started getting anxious and hot flashes so I stopped clomid again. I thought the nolvadex may have been the problem since I had taken clomid in the past … but it obviously the clomid. I’m thinking there is some zuclomiphene threshold that was met very quickly with the 100mg/day … but just took longer to build that same level at 25mg/day. Anyway… today is better that yesterday, still feel like shit but hopefully I’ll feel like myself soon. My Blood work shows LH: 12.4 and TT:691 as of 9am on Tuesday. I’m quitting all meds and seeing how things roll out
Also thanks for responding, it’s helping me get through this without going completely insane! 3 more weeks seems like an eternity
Just keep telling yourself that it’s only temporary- you Will
feel better soon. And, on the bright side - your numbers look great. Clomid did its trick. Take bloods one month after stopping to see how your HPTA is holding up. If your are younger - you may be back in business. If your Test is low - there is always TRT (which is life changing IMO). So either way you’ll win. Good luck bro!
Thank jim. Anxiety is killing me. Tempted to take a t shot just out of comfort but I’m sure the anxiety will persist. I’ve made it this far… I just need to keep going.
Update: labs on 6/6/17 are following :
Tt: 841
E2: 33.1
LH: 8.5
Fsh: 4.5
This is after stopping all meds. Spentaneous night erections are occurring, however anxiety is still lingering, not as bad as before . Sleep and Energy level not great. Will continue to draw labs every week.
Numbers look fantastic. How long since you stopped all meds? You need to be off all meds for a month to get an accurate reading on if your system held up. But, for the time being these are great results. With decent testosterone E2 values, your anxiety and sleep issues are clearly from the Clomid working it’s way out of your system. After 3 weeks of not taking anything they subside rather drastically and you will feel normal.
It’s been 15 days since taking anything. Going to get labs in the morning. I’m hoping the lethargy/anxiety/brain fog is clomid induced. It comes and goes. Some hours I feel fine while others I feel like shit. With that said I had a good workout today. Will post when lab results are in