[quote]therajraj wrote:
Do any xians here have any experiences of being persecuted for being persecuted?[/quote]
I’m not sure what this is asking.
Escalated Quickly.jpeg
[quote]groo wrote:
Just stated Christians aren’t persecuted in America. And they aren’t.
[/quote]
“Minnesota Social Worker says Talking about the Bible is illegal in Hud Housing complex”
“Tufts University in Massachusetts bans Christian group”
“Gallaudet University in Washington D.C Punishes tenured Staffer for Signing Marriage Petition”
“Elon University’s (North Carolina) student government has voted to ban a Chick-fil-a restaurant on campus because the fast-food chain’s president is against gay marriage.”
“Wisconsin School District Orders Cross Removed From Football Helmets”
“Florida Family Faces Fines for Hosting Bible Study”
“Christians victims of rising ‘hostility’ from gov’t and secular groups, report says”
http://christianpersecutioninamerica.com/
Mennonites? Amish?
I didn’t realize this was the thread i started because of the title change. Not upset about the title change at all btw. I do not know of any book or writings published or made prior to the Bible that had so many what i would call laws or truths about how a way of living your life by it’s teachings that are so correct in so many ways still today? I hope I am wording my thoughts clearly enough? One post states something about monkeys and picking bugs out of other monkeys hair. Birds migrate during winter months. I get it. Can anyone give examples of teachings or writings prior to the Bible that states true wisdom about human nature? Do not mean that as an insult, an honest question.
Another thought. As far back as human recorded history there have been people that have looked for an higher power. Who could have started this? Why is it that people throughout human history as a general rule searched out religion, or Gods? So people that do not beieve there is a God, believe that we as humans evolved from apes( or ape like creatures, or reptiles), alll the way to where we are today? Without some type of devine intervention?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
Just stated Christians aren’t persecuted in America. And they aren’t.
[/quote]
“Minnesota Social Worker says Talking about the Bible is illegal in Hud Housing complex”
“Tufts University in Massachusetts bans Christian group”
“Gallaudet University in Washington D.C Punishes tenured Staffer for Signing Marriage Petition”
“Elon University’s (North Carolina) student government has voted to ban a Chick-fil-a restaurant on campus because the fast-food chain’s president is against gay marriage.”
“Wisconsin School District Orders Cross Removed From Football Helmets”
“Florida Family Faces Fines for Hosting Bible Study”
“Christians victims of rising ‘hostility’ from gov’t and secular groups, report says”
http://christianpersecutioninamerica.com/
Mennonites? Amish?[/quote]
Nope
[quote]groo wrote:
Nope[/quote]
Yep
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]groo wrote:
Just stated Christians aren’t persecuted in America. And they aren’t.
[/quote]
“Minnesota Social Worker says Talking about the Bible is illegal in Hud Housing complex”
“Tufts University in Massachusetts bans Christian group”
“Gallaudet University in Washington D.C Punishes tenured Staffer for Signing Marriage Petition”
“Elon University’s (North Carolina) student government has voted to ban a Chick-fil-a restaurant on campus because the fast-food chain’s president is against gay marriage.”
“Wisconsin School District Orders Cross Removed From Football Helmets”
“Florida Family Faces Fines for Hosting Bible Study”
“Christians victims of rising ‘hostility’ from gov’t and secular groups, report says”
http://christianpersecutioninamerica.com/
Mennonites? Amish?[/quote]
Nope[/quote]
These guys obviously take some weird pleasure out of mistreatment, so when it’s non-existent they have to manufacture it.
i mean main the symbol of their religion is a torture device FFS.
Man I miss the SAMA forum sometimes.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
The usual slough of T Nation 20-something atheists/agnostics/know-it-all’s has found some new prey.[/quote]
It is fine, pushharder. lol I knew what I was getting myself into before I ever posted my first post. Honestly, I should have known better but here I am.
I will be back to continue this discussion but for now it may have to wait a few days. [/quote]
Trust me, they are shrill and quite boring. I’ve been here long enough to be able to establish a virtual law of physics: their belief system that your belief system is hopelessly flawed is ardently and unequivocally religious.[/quote]
lol Point taken, thank you.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Yes, my approval is obvious, especially in this thread where everyone has respected my beliefs, no? [/quote]
Who has disrespected your beliefs? I read through the entire thread and found your logic, reasoning, and conclusions attacked, but you should expect that on a forum where the primary form of dialogue is debate. In fact, most have taken it very easy on you so far.[/quote]
Perhaps by saying that it wasn’t my belief per say but my right to believe what I choose, as you do.
I do realize, and did realize before I ever posted in here, that my logic, reasoning and conclusions would be attacked and was fine with that. Also, I do agree that most have taken it “easy” on me. Having thought about it, I have come to the conclusion that no matter what I tell you, it will not appease you as you are one to believe based on sight and me, on faith. We will never see eye to eye and therefor, I would just be wasting my time and that would be a foolish thing for me to do.
Also, having read the OP’s second post, I do believe that anything that I would contribute would not be even close to on-topic. I could contribute…but I’m not going to.
Back to the lifting forums for me now. Maybe at some point when there is a really good discussion about guns (where I can debate statistics and fact) I will be back. It was a mistake for me to discuss Christ in here and I realize that.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
The word has a broad definition and I never argued that anything was synonymous. By your logic, a person that was hit has no reason to be upset because he could have been shot and that’s worse. Do you not see that both are wrong? There are worse things that happen to people that live outside of Sudan. That shouldn’t discount what that woman or those women were put through.[/quote]
That is incorrect. Nobody is saying that Christians in America should not complain about any mistreatment, real or perceived. He is saying that calling the treatment of Christians in America “persecution” is not really appropriate. The treatment of Christians in, say, some of the more extremist Islamic nations is more in line with the general understanding of persecution. The general treatment of Christians in the US is not comparable at all to that, so using the same word to describe that treatment is inappropriate in the same way claiming that being punched is equivalent to being shot.
I would be very interested to hear specific examples of how you feel treated unfairly because of your beliefs in America.
[/quote]
Well, I think when people think of persecution, they think of being starved to death or being tied to a wall and being beaten with a cat-o-nine-tails.
In America, it’s not persecution per se, open mocking, ridicule, insults, etc. are what happens here. In the public forum, Christians and their beliefs are ridiculed and marginalized all the time. In the media, in entertainment, etc. That’s easy to see.
The stuff that Christians experience most of the time in terms of “persecution” are very similar to what happens here in the PWI forums. Name calling, marginalizing, mocking, etc. I do not know anybody being beat up or anything like that for their beliefs.
Basically, we’re made fun of and mocked publicly, nothing physical.
[quote]Legionary wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.
[/quote]
Please drop the melodrama. Did someone in the past scoff at your faith? Boo hoo. You don’t live in Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, North Korea or Saudia Arabia. If anything religious and non religious minorities are being discriminated against by SOME Christians, particularly in legal, social and professional contexts. America was founded on the values of the Enlightenment, not Judeo-Christian values, freedom of (and from) religion being an essential tenet. You know what you believe and so do I. Don’t construe the rare disapproval to attest that you are being targeted for your beliefs. If anything you are among the “approved” majority in America.[/quote]
Oh boy, massive history fail.
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:<<< my logic, reasoning and conclusions would be attacked and was fine with that. >>>[/quote]What is this logic, reasoning and conclusions? We have all varieties of deluded apostates floating around here so I am biblically required to ask what you believe and why. I’m asking you honestly, I don’t know. Though you certainly aren’t required to answer to I would consider a blessing if you did.[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:<<< It was a mistake for me to discuss Christ in here and I realize that.[/quote]I hope I don’t agree. Why do you say this? They pound on me every day. My mistake would be in leaving. You n I will either REALLY get along or REALLY not. If they worked I would have done this in a PM btw. Like I say, I really miss the SAMA forum sometimes.
EDIT:(sorry mods) Oh yeah, sincere congrats on the new addition to your family.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I didn’t realize this was the thread i started because of the title change. Not upset about the title change at all btw. I do not know of any book or writings published or made prior to the Bible that had so many what i would call laws or truths about how a way of living your life by it’s teachings that are so correct in so many ways still today? I hope I am wording my thoughts clearly enough? One post states something about monkeys and picking bugs out of other monkeys hair. Birds migrate during winter months. I get it. Can anyone give examples of teachings or writings prior to the Bible that states true wisdom about human nature? Do not mean that as an insult, an honest question.
Another thought. As far back as human recorded history there have been people that have looked for an higher power. Who could have started this? Why is it that people throughout human history as a general rule searched out religion, or Gods? So people that do not beieve there is a God, believe that we as humans evolved from apes( or ape like creatures, or reptiles), alll the way to where we are today? Without some type of devine intervention?[/quote]
Well there are other ancient texts containing similar moral precepts that are also in the Bible. However, none are as complete and detailed in structure and nuance as the bible. Now whether the reason for this was a lack of the careful preservation that was given to the scriptures through out history or they simply didn’t exist, I don’t know. However, given the age of some of the scriptures and sophistication of the writing there in, is certainly something that should not be ignored. There are few if any historical texts as complete as the ancient scriptures. And there are no writings that old that still hold value, or the true precepts that the ancient texts of the Bible still hold.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:<<< my logic, reasoning and conclusions would be attacked and was fine with that. >>>[/quote]What is this logic, reasoning and conclusions? We have all varieties of deluded apostates floating around here so I am biblically required to ask what you believe and why. I’m asking you honestly, I don’t know. Though you certainly aren’t required to answer to I would consider a blessing if you did.[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:<<< It was a mistake for me to discuss Christ in here and I realize that.[/quote]I hope I don’t agree. Why do you say this? They pound on me every day. My mistake would be in leaving. You n I will either REALLY get along or REALLY not. If they worked I would have done this in a PM btw. Like I say, I really miss the SAMA forum sometimes.
EDIT:(sorry mods) Oh yeah, sincere congrats on the new addition to your family.
[/quote]
Logic, reasoning and conclusions were mentioned by the person that I had quoted earlier. I had been fully prepared to explain/discuss those things but it seemed the majority of people in the thread were jumping on the definition of the word persecution (which includes behaviors other than physical torture, etc). When I asked for a replacement word that would be sufficient to continue, nobody wanted to answer this. For me to have continued would have been arguing for the sake of arguing.
You are the first person to ask me what I do believe, thank you. I believe that my Savior, Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross in my place so that I might have life and rose from the dead three days later. I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. Being baptized in The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and repentance of sin and being cleansed in His blood. After these things, that we must spend every day trying to be more like Him and choosing to do things that edify our spirit and give all glory to God. Also that The Bible is my guide to life and is His living Word. Hopefully that will tell enough of my beliefs.
The reason why I stated that I thought it would be a waste of time is because â??He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.â?? Matthew 12:19 Testimony is more rewarding than debate to me although I would gladly discuss Christ with a non-believer that wanted to hear His message and I have.
I don’t think that I can send or receive PM’s either but am not certain. Also, what is an SAMA forum? Forgive my ignorance.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I didn’t realize this was the thread i started because of the title change. Not upset about the title change at all btw. I do not know of any book or writings published or made prior to the Bible that had so many what i would call laws or truths about how a way of living your life by it’s teachings that are so correct in so many ways still today? I hope I am wording my thoughts clearly enough? One post states something about monkeys and picking bugs out of other monkeys hair. Birds migrate during winter months. I get it. Can anyone give examples of teachings or writings prior to the Bible that states true wisdom about human nature? Do not mean that as an insult, an honest question.
Another thought. As far back as human recorded history there have been people that have looked for an higher power. Who could have started this? Why is it that people throughout human history as a general rule searched out religion, or Gods? So people that do not beieve there is a God, believe that we as humans evolved from apes( or ape like creatures, or reptiles), alll the way to where we are today? Without some type of devine intervention?[/quote]
Well there are other ancient texts containing similar moral precepts that are also in the Bible. However, none are as complete and detailed in structure and nuance as the bible. Now whether the reason for this was a lack of the careful preservation that was given to the scriptures through out history or they simply didn’t exist, I don’t know. However, given the age of some of the scriptures and sophistication of the writing there in, is certainly something that should not be ignored. There are few if any historical texts as complete as the ancient scriptures. And there are no writings that old that still hold value, or the true precepts that the ancient texts of the Bible still hold.[/quote]
You stated what I was trying to get across much better than I did. So, that being said, how can anyone ignore this? What are peoples ideas on this that don’t believe in God? Who started this and why? If not God? If leaders of the people at a given time, did this to control the population, as has been stated before? Why have every civilization I can think of on Earth have higher powers in their way of life, or teachings of how to live? If a person says it’s just in human nature to need to believe in an higher power, or look for an higher power. My question is ‘isn’t that saying something’ If the masses of people are ‘wired’ to search out an higher power throughout history? Why? I believe it is because there is an higher power GOD and he really wants us to know him, and live by his lessons and teachings so we can live in the Glory he has created fully.
Also, there is no arguement that weak minded people believe or need to believe in God. Some of the greatest minds the world has ever known believed in God.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
…Also, there is no arguement that weak minded people believe or need to believe in God. Some of the greatest minds the world has ever known believed in God.
[/quote]
I would argue that you can’t have a great mind without that belief in Him.
[/quote]
I agree
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I didn’t realize this was the thread i started because of the title change. Not upset about the title change at all btw. I do not know of any book or writings published or made prior to the Bible that had so many what i would call laws or truths about how a way of living your life by it’s teachings that are so correct in so many ways still today? I hope I am wording my thoughts clearly enough? One post states something about monkeys and picking bugs out of other monkeys hair. Birds migrate during winter months. I get it. Can anyone give examples of teachings or writings prior to the Bible that states true wisdom about human nature? Do not mean that as an insult, an honest question.
Another thought. As far back as human recorded history there have been people that have looked for an higher power. Who could have started this? Why is it that people throughout human history as a general rule searched out religion, or Gods? So people that do not beieve there is a God, believe that we as humans evolved from apes( or ape like creatures, or reptiles), alll the way to where we are today? Without some type of devine intervention?[/quote]
Well there are other ancient texts containing similar moral precepts that are also in the Bible. However, none are as complete and detailed in structure and nuance as the bible. Now whether the reason for this was a lack of the careful preservation that was given to the scriptures through out history or they simply didn’t exist, I don’t know. However, given the age of some of the scriptures and sophistication of the writing there in, is certainly something that should not be ignored. There are few if any historical texts as complete as the ancient scriptures. And there are no writings that old that still hold value, or the true precepts that the ancient texts of the Bible still hold.[/quote]
You stated what I was trying to get across much better than I did. So, that being said, how can anyone ignore this? What are peoples ideas on this that don’t believe in God? Who started this and why? If not God? If leaders of the people at a given time, did this to control the population, as has been stated before? Why have every civilization I can think of on Earth have higher powers in their way of life, or teachings of how to live? If a person says it’s just in human nature to need to believe in an higher power, or look for an higher power. My question is ‘isn’t that saying something’ If the masses of people are ‘wired’ to search out an higher power throughout history? Why? I believe it is because there is an higher power GOD and he really wants us to know him, and live by his lessons and teachings so we can live in the Glory he has created fully.
Also, there is no arguement that weak minded people believe or need to believe in God. Some of the greatest minds the world has ever known believed in God.[/quote]
For the Bible to have any meaning, a person first needs to believe in God. Otherwise the Bible is utterly meaningless.
Things are easy to ignore with an act of will. There is a lot of hatred for the Bible out there and great deals of misrepresentation. I would suspect that most people’s issue isn’t with the bible itself but with Christians and religion. This then naturally turns as an attack that is the muse for our faith.
But it must be this way for the Bible itself tells us this would and does happen. So if it did not, the bible would have been wrong. It’s not.
We are attacked, insulted and maligned for our beliefs, we got it easy. Many suffer a great deal more for it in other parts of the world.
There will always be people who hate us. There will always be people who hate the bible. I can tell you that most have not read it, or given it much thought in anyway.
Even aside from the religious aspect I find the bible fascinating on many, many levels. I do not think any one man and fully explore all it’s depth in it’s entirety.
I can say this, though that the greatest enemies of the bible are not the ones who open hate it. It’s the ones who use it wrongly for ill gotten gain, for those who think it’s a license of justification for bad purposes. They are the ones who do the most damage.