How Would You Have Reacted?

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121

[quote]Gerg wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Gerg wrote:

  1. This was not a fight, this was anti-social violence.

…

  1. The guy on the cell phone, made a ton of mistakes, starting with talking about the lady, being passive, and ignoring the threat of the much larger , much more street wise boyfriend. In short, he started a shit storm that quickly went out of his control and got his ass whipped.

Actually, according to Mr. Larkin that IS social violence.

Tim Larkin? I would think he would say this is aesocial (sp?)violence. I have read some of his blogs, but I am not that familiar with all of his work.

I don’t understand what you mean by “social” violence. This violence, by nature is anti-social.[/quote]

I was banking on the fact that your entire post was regurgitating his teachings - my bad.

It’s a tough call but I’m THINKING in this case it IS social violence. It started out verbal and the victim kept acting like an ass and escalating the situation and enraging the big guy. So he started hitting him. And the big guy didn’t kill him.

If it were anti-social, the big guy would have walked in and killed the guy without any hesitation simply because he wanted him dead.

In this case, the big guy just wanted to show off how tough he was - I THINK. Making it social.

122

[quote]Gerg wrote:
I see a trend here, mostly guys that think the boyfriend could have been brought down easiy, and if you don’t step up and fight you’re less of a man. I submit the following observations:

  1. This was not a fight, this was anti-social violence. MMA and other sports-style combat training may have assisted you, but would not have guaranteed your success in bringing this dude down.

  2. The guy on the cell phone, made a ton of mistakes, starting with talking about the lady, being passive, and ignoring the threat of the much larger , much more street wise boyfriend. In short, he started a shit storm that quickly went out of his control and got his ass whipped. Did he deserve the beatdown he got? No. But thats what happened.
    Moral: Don’t write checks you can’t cash.

  3. When you involve yourself in violence with another human being, thre is a risk that one or more persons will be severly, permantly injured or killed. That is the reality of this type of scenario.

I am 5’10", any where from 195-210 lbs depending on what training I am doing at that moment. If I can’t talk him down, I have to bring him down. That requires one of the following:

-immediate, disabiling injury ( for example, snap knee, etc.)
-CNS shut down (i.e. knock out)
-Death

Some of you are younger, with out people who rely on you (wife, kids, other), and / or have limited responsibility. However, if I involve myself in a fight, I have the likelyhood of being arrested (thus losing my job), and probably sued by the injured party.

I could also be hurt or killed and unable to work. The question I have to ask myself is: Is my lively hood and the after-effect of this choice worth me losing everything to intercede because this guy is a passive ass? Nope.

Also, if my wife and kids are with me I have other priorities to consider, i.e. keeping them safe and out of the maelstrom.

That being said, would I have done something? Probably, if I was alone and saw it was going as far as it did. If it was a dude against a female, definately. If it was one of my friends or family, definately. But there are more factors than just: do nothing = pussy, do something = “real” man.

[/quote]

All very well said. I often carry a benchmade folder and or a gun. what should I do, pull out a gun in a crowd, knife the guy? The repercussions are very serious. And as for my self defense skills, I think I’m okay in certain ways, but a 300 pound high individual is very very formidable, like 45 caliber formidable.

And again it’s crowded. Pulling a gun on an individual 4-6 ft away means you have a split second to decide to shoot or not shoot. And all those people can become accidental targets if your bullet over penetrates.

The best thing to do is call the cops, give a description of what happens and call for an ambulance while rendering first aid if needed.

I would love to see some 3 week MMA trained 165 pound T man take on that high 300+ plus knucklehead.

123

EVERYONE involved in this unfortunate situation was wrong…and everything that happened in the video is a good illustration of what is “wrong” with society. The older I get, the more I realize how self-centered, illogical, and irresponsible the majority of people are and it saddens me to see the direction society is going…

I hope that, had I been there, I could have done something to keep the situation from escalating the way it did…but I also know that if it did escalate…I would have done something to STOP the situation…

124

[quote]tom63 wrote:
I would love to see some 3 week MMA trained 165 pound “T man” take on that high 300+ plus knucklehead.[/quote]

You forgot the sarcastic quotation marks, but that’s OK, I fixed it for you.

125

All I can think of atm is… If he died…they would all be crucified

I would not blame people for running if someone pulls a gun, I wouldnt blame them if they had a knife but it was one on one and 15 people in a confined space they should of helped regardless.

its shameful they we have to be forced into a situation to act, in first aid training for example they always say when you ask a crowd to call 911 specify a person, not the group one person and they know you mean them.

You know the majority of the Human population is worthless shit when a person gets the shit beat out of him 2 feet from 20 other “MEN” or a woman is stabbed in a store and people step over her and keep shopping while she bleeds out…some even stopping to take pictures.

Worthless pieces of shit. The last time I let a fight go… I girl was slapping her boyfriend at school… in front of the school police officers office…hes office wall is a window…and it was in between classes and several teachers walked by…it was sad but only lasted like a minute…felt like shit but it wasnt my responsibly in a hall with teachers and a fucking police officer 5 feet from them…ya I felt like shit after words and I should of done something.

I have confronted groups of people and bullies… The first time I slammed the kid against the wall and lifted him off the group by the neck…its funny how fast people who think they’re tough turn into crying pussies when they’re hanging by their neck…

I turned around and all his friends were walking the other way. lol and when I was in class… 3 guys were trying to piss me off so i got up in their faces and started yelling at them…they all ran then I filed a police report for harassment hehe…It was so funny…

126

[quote]shizen wrote:
Tithonus81 wrote:
Question: If that cell phone guy pulled out a gun and killed the 300lb dude AFTER he started hitting him, would he end up getting charged with anything?

Is self defense enough of a reason to kill, or must it absolutely positively be life and death?

self defense cases don’t work really well, if your carrying a gun your pretty much are intending to kill someone is what they will usually try to throw at you. Especially in the case you described, after one punch he shots the guy he is definitely going to prison.

Although say your getting your ass kicked, and your positive you might die and grab something and hit him over the head which happens to kill him you’ll probably get away with it. [/quote]

Not necessarily, the key words were I was afraid for my life. In most jurisdictions, that will justify lethal self defense. But here’s the problem, you might win, but after you are arrested and go to trial. And spend your life savings. And you still face a civil suit.

And if you did anything to escalate the situation, you might hurt your case. What he should have done is kept his mouth shut. He didn’t deserve a beating, but he could have done more to prevent this situation.

127

[quote]Makavali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I would love to see some 3 week MMA trained 165 pound “T man” take on that high 300+ plus knucklehead.

You forgot the sarcastic quotation marks, but that’s OK, I fixed it for you.[/quote]

No problem, I don’t mind, hahaha! Seriously a 300 + pound high street thug is a very dangerous fellow. That kind of guy can put the beatdown on a few guys.

128

[quote]lixy wrote:
Willus wrote:
I think its the basic evolutionary human response - freeze up - its a component of the fight or flight reaction.

How’s freezing up part of “the fight or flight reaction”?

More like “fright reaction”…[/quote]

It is part of it. It all depends on how you’re wired.

129

[quote]Petermus wrote:
all I can think of atm is… If he died…they would all be crucified

I would not blame people for running if someone pulls a gun, I wouldnt blame them if they had a knife but it was one on one and 15 people in a confined space they should of helped regardless.

its shameful they we have to be forced into a situation to act, in first aid training for example they always say when you ask a crowd to call 911 specify a person, not the group one person and they know you mean them.

You know the majority of the Human population is worthless shit when a person gets the shit beat out of him 2 feet from 20 other “MEN” or a woman is stabbed in a store and people step over her and keep shopping while she bleeds out…some even stopping to take pictures.

Worthless pieces of shit. The last time I let a fight go… I girl was slapping her boyfriend at school… in front of the school police officers office…hes office wall is a window…and it was in between classes and several teachers walked by…

it was sad but only lasted like a minute…felt like shit but it wasnt my responsibly in a hall with teachers and a fucking police officer 5 feet from them…ya I felt like shit after words and I should of done something. I have confronted groups of people and bullies…

The first time I slammed the kid against the wall and lifted him off the group by the neck…its funny how fast people who think they’re tough turn into crying pussies when they’re hanging by their neck…

I turned around and all his friends were walking the other way. lol and when I was in class… 3 guys were trying to piss me off so i got up in their faces and started yelling at them…they all ran then I filed a police report for harassment hehe…It was so funny…

[/quote]

Okay, after high school some people carry guns and knives and such. And some people will use them. And there’s little most people could do at close quarters in a situation such as this. It’s nice and easy when it’s a controlled situation like the hall way between home room and first period, but it’s way different in the real world.

130

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Gerg wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Gerg wrote:

  1. This was not a fight, this was anti-social violence.

…

  1. The guy on the cell phone, made a ton of mistakes, starting with talking about the lady, being passive, and ignoring the threat of the much larger , much more street wise boyfriend. In short, he started a shit storm that quickly went out of his control and got his ass whipped.

Actually, according to Mr. Larkin that IS social violence.

Tim Larkin? I would think he would say this is aesocial (sp?)violence. I have read some of his blogs, but I am not that familiar with all of his work.

I don’t understand what you mean by “social” violence. This violence, by nature is anti-social.

I was banking on the fact that your entire post was regurgitating his teachings - my bad.

It’s a tough call but I’m THINKING in this case it IS social violence. It started out verbal and the victim kept acting like an ass and escalating the situation and enraging the big guy. So he started hitting him. And the big guy didn’t kill him.

If it were anti-social, the big guy would have walked in and killed the guy without any hesitation simply because he wanted him dead.

In this case, the big guy just wanted to show off how tough he was - I THINK. Making it social.[/quote]

Good point; but I think we are disagreeing by sematics. I am looking at this more in terms of sociology / criminology. By social I think of accepted violence, ie sporting, or mutually agreed upon (friends fighting like in high school or otherwise) as some sort of bonding, etc…

Anti-social would fall into outside of societal rules or laws, either said or unsaid.

That said, not all violence that is (by my definition)anti-social ends in death, or even injury. But then I start to think about where does social end and anti social begin…? I think I am going off the track of this thread. But thanks for giving me something to think about…:slight_smile:

131

[quote]tom63 wrote:
No problem, I don’t mind, hahaha! Seriously a 300 + pound high street thug is a very dangerous fellow. That kind of guy can put the beatdown on a few guys.[/quote]

This may be true, but I don’t see why people wouldn’t at least say something. I know I have done more than just say something, and 4 stitches and a concussion later, I still would do the same.

132

[quote]Makavali wrote:
I know I have done more than just say something, and 4 stitches and a concussion later, I still would do the same.[/quote]

Awesome, Mak!

133

[quote]Makavali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
No problem, I don’t mind, hahaha! Seriously a 300 + pound high street thug is a very dangerous fellow. That kind of guy can put the beatdown on a few guys.

This may be true, but I don’t see why people wouldn’t at least say something. I know I have done more than just say something, and 4 stitches and a concussion later, I still would do the same.[/quote]

A 300lb dude?

You’re looking at a broken jaw and permanent brain damage later…

but, anyone that would risk their own safety for the benefit of the helpless is noble.

Question is, how selfless are you?

134

[quote]LiftSmart wrote:
A 300lb dude?

You’re looking at a broken jaw and permanent brain damage later[/quote]

I shoved a broken fence post into his crotch. He went down pretty quickly. A swift kick to his head, and it was over.

You may be right about the brain damage though. Although I’ve been like this since I was a child. I blame the government.

135

[quote]Makavali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
No problem, I don’t mind, hahaha! Seriously a 300 + pound high street thug is a very dangerous fellow. That kind of guy can put the beatdown on a few guys.

This may be true, but I don’t see why people wouldn’t at least say something. I know I have done more than just say something, and 4 stitches and a concussion later, I still would do the same.[/quote]

Most people just can’t believe something is happening. Remember these people are those dumbasses that can’t even walk in a straight line at the mall. you know the type that somehow can block off the whole side of the mall, not allowing others through.

Many are afraid, and few would know what to do. I’m not the kind of guy to mouth off or start altercations. This has a lot to do with my training in handgun usage. we learned a whole lot about the laws and so forth and how to avoid conflicts. The standard of behavior is higher for an armed citizen.

In a case like this, you would have had to really hurt that guy to stop the guy. Bad. I don’t know if I’m physically capable of it. Add in the coke or pcp factor. Guys have been know to soak up 9-10 9mm rounds while high.

Now as he was beating on the guy. I would at that time risk it, if I thought I could.

But I have a family to feed, and if I could is my call. I’m not going to risk myself and my family for some douchebag with a big mouth.

136

[quote]tom63 wrote:
But I have a family to feed, and if I could is my call. I’m not going to risk myself and my family for some douchebag with a big mouth.[/quote]

This is also true. I wish I could hear exactly what the guy said on the phone. It’s hard to make a call on that particular situation without the full picture.

137

I was banking on the fact that your entire post was regurgitating his teachings

…hey…was this an insult??? :slight_smile:

I realized that the “injury/CNS shutdown/death” breakdown came from some stuff a friend gave me circa 1997 or so from Jerry Petersen.

If you don’t know, Petersen was the “founder” of SCARS, a questionable fighting system that he claimed the Navy SEALS were using. Actually was re-hashed San Sao. Tim Larkin was once the head instructor for Petersen.

I guess I found a gold watch at the garbage dump.

138

Oh yeah forgot to answer question what I would have done.

Realize its hard to tell what the best possible thing to do is in scenarios like this is. I would have tried my best to talk to the black lady agreeing with her and telling her that guys is not worth her time ext.

Basically trying to make her realize that, yeah this is stupid he is just trash. I might not believe the shit I’m saying, but I would play to the emotions of the aggressor to calm a situation down.

If big black guy came in while I was there and didn’t see first part, I would remind him like basically don’t do anything stupid not worth your time to beat on this stupid white guy.

If he did throw a punch I would just get in his way, and again just try my best to keep him from getting more mad and he probably would have left after just one hit-showing that he stood up for his girl-. Then of course called the police.

I like how everyone wants to jump right away too, ‘yeah I would have jumped him, shot him kicked his ass ext’ thats probably the worse thing to do in almost every scenario. You don’t want to escalate things, most people are reasonable.

Though of course there is a small chance where you might be RANDOMLY attacked by a CRAZY individual in this case you defend yourself to the fullest.

139

I would of crapped my pants, took my fecal droppings and flung them at the big baboon like ape hitting the guy with my super monkey-poo throwing powers!

And then rightously beat him senseless like a real man supposed to:)

140

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Okay, after high school some people carry guns and knives and such. And some people will use them. And there’s little most people could do at close quarters in a situation such as this. It’s nice and easy when it’s a controlled situation like the hall way between home room and first period, but it’s way different in the real world.
[/quote]

I agree. When someone is that close to you, you do not have the time or maneuverability you think you do. Here is the dilemma you face: this guy is angry and in your face. If you hit him first, then not only have you lost any possibility of this ending peacefully, but you are the one who escalated the situation to physical violence.

If you wait for him to hit you first, there is no guarantee that you will see it coming, be able to block it, or be able to get up afterwards. If you turn around to leave, he is likely to hit you from behind, where you definitely won’t see it coming.

After the little situation I was in, I thought it might be a good idea to carry a knife. Someone pointed a couple of things out to me. First, if the person has not attacked me, and I pull out a knife, I could get in serious legal trouble. Second, if I pull out a knife, I’d better be willing to use it.

It sucks, but the advantage really is with the potential agressor, unless you are well-trained and observant. Being calm and talking your way out of things are preferable.