I am new to this site and find the Biotest product line very innovative. I have been reading the T-mag archived issues and past forum questions and have noticed many people getting great gains from the Androsol and Tribex. I was hoping that someone (including Bill Roberts) could tell me:
Can a person use Saw Palmetto to avoid DHT sides while on an Androsol cycle or will it inhibit the gains?
I know that Biotest does not recommend this, but what if you used 70 sprays 3 times daily ? Would it be possible to achieve greater gains or is their a ‘plateau’ effect? I’m not saying I’ll do this, just curious.
Should the Tribex dosage be the same the entire duration of the cycle?
Saw Palmetto works its magic only in the prostate, so it won’t do much to prevent hair loss. But you can use it if prostate enlargement is a concern – it certainly won’t inhibit gains.
Applying Androsol 3 times daily (once every 7 hours) would be marginally more effective than applying it 2 times daily. Regardless of how many times you use it, make sure you shower before each application.
You should use high doses of Tribex on weeks 2, 3, and 4. Adding IC3 or DIM on weeks 3-4 couldn’t hurt either.
Saw palmetto couldn’t be expected to reduce side effects much, since it doesn’t when using injectable testosterone either; but Proscar/Propecia could help somewhat. However, the high 4-AD levels themselves, regardless of DHT, will tend to accelerate development of male pattern baldness and promote acne (and also, I believe, work against acne but only while actually present, with the result that acne is not usually much of an issue during a cycle but, when levels fall, the accumlated proacne effect, now without the antiacne effect, comes back to bite you if you’re unlucky.)
Applying 3 times per day would not be of significant benefit unless for some reason your applications cannot be approximately 12 hours apart. If, for example, you can apply 8 hours later, and can apply 16 hours later, but nowhere around the 12 hour mark is possible for you, then it would be slightly better – not much! – to apply at 0, 8, and 16 hours than just at 0 and 16 hours.
Mr. Roberts, thank you for your prompt and thorough response. Do you think Propecia will reduce the gains from Androsol even if it helps with side effects? Even if it did, it may still be worth it but I suppose not if you did’nt gain ANYTHING becasue of it!
I was considering using Tribex as an adjunct to the cycle as suggested but I don't understand how this wouldn't further downregulate T. Even if LH is elevated by endogenous (naturally via Tribex) means, would the pituitary "sense" the additional LH and secrete less over time? I just can't believe (though I would love to!) that something could raise T levels even naturally without some kind of negative feedback. Sorry if it seems like I'm being too simplistic, I'm definitely no scientist, just trying to understand.
Trying to shut down DHT, for example with high doses of Proscar, is not a good idea, but just keeping DHT normal in the face of increased testosterone doesn’t adversely affect gains. So if you use 1 mg of Propecia per day, or 1/4 of a Proscar tab (a cheaper way to go) you’ll have no problems in that regard.
Mr. Roberts, I know that you recommend cycle that are modest in length, but what about even shorter cycles such as one week on / 2 weeks off (so that one would still be “on” for a total of 2 out of 6 weeks). Would that be equally as effective? I realize that the reason you recommend 2 week cyles in the first place is to avoid pituitary suppression and even temporarily sensitize it to LHRH. Quite a unique concept. I remember a study that indicated that even 10 mg of Dianabol suppresed T levels by 40-50% in 10 days (if I’m not mistaken). I remember a case study that you followed in which the ahlete had T Levels at 1/10th baseline after 14 days; I was wondering if the one week cyles would partially circumvent that. I’m not trying to be a wuss, since I suppose that not using ANY androgens would be the only way to ensure no or very little suppresion. Just exploring theories or even empirical evidence from athletes you may have trained.