[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I don’t know about paleo, but this time of year I switch to a protien and raw fruit veggie diet, been doing it for a couple years, think it’s kind of what your talking about, i get lean, have lots of energy, and can kinda eat as much as I want, within the confines of the diet, big veggie platters till I’m stuffed to the gills, lol, been doing this in the spring for years. goodluck[/quote]
Why the spring?? Abundance of fresh produce or just because?
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Im debating going 50% protien 25% fat 25% at 500cal below TDEE just to see if I get the same results as the cut phase on AD… For what its worth after switching to paleo then AD I’ve found that my energy and guts run better on a high fat diet. The only thing that concerns me is I get very little nutrients that fruit and vegies provide as they are only on the weekends for the last 2 years. [/quote]
This sounds very reasonable to me. I vote go for it, but don’t transition overnight. Slowly increase pro and carb…slowly drop fat.
I had a similar experience to you btw when I went paleo with high fat, mod pro, low carb. It’s great to get you to that level of leanness you’re at now…but then you just kind of stick. [/quote]
Dude that is exactly what happend!!! Before paleo or AD I was about 25% BF aftter paleo then ad I stay in the 12-14% range consistantly but just cant seem to break into the >10% range… Even on the cut phase I cant seem to push past 12% My only fear with cutting fat too much is for me its a cleaner better fuel source. I have good energy, bowls operate great, ect.
Even on my carb days I feel slugish & take like 5-6 dumps a day plus Im gassy. I think the fats could play a part aswell cutting saturated fats and replacing with monos/polys could do the trick as well… What do you think? Obviousley you are a BB with low fat so you probably know
i eat like a pig the rest of the year, winter here, i can basicaly eat anything I want, including buckets of icecream, and not blow up, mabey 15lbs above norm, mostly PLer anyway, so I don’t concern myself to much, got a younger wife, that lives on pop tarts and pepsi and still looks good, so it’s a pain in the ass buying two sets of grocerys, just lazzy I guess,
I’m 40 at about 245, 225 summer, so I’m not chasing any real goals right now, other than dam double body weight bench, for ten yrs now lol, I always recomend protien and veggie diet to clients trying to loose weight, seems to work pretty well, for people who don’t like counting calories.
My basic therory in life, is to take everything down to it’s absolute most basic form, make it liveable, weights; 2 exercises per workout, nutition; meat and veggies, marrige; mutual respect. Make life simple, it becomes enjoyable
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Im debating going 50% protien 25% fat 25% at 500cal below TDEE just to see if I get the same results as the cut phase on AD… For what its worth after switching to paleo then AD I’ve found that my energy and guts run better on a high fat diet. The only thing that concerns me is I get very little nutrients that fruit and vegies provide as they are only on the weekends for the last 2 years. [/quote]
This sounds very reasonable to me. I vote go for it, but don’t transition overnight. Slowly increase pro and carb…slowly drop fat.
I had a similar experience to you btw when I went paleo with high fat, mod pro, low carb. It’s great to get you to that level of leanness you’re at now…but then you just kind of stick. [/quote]
Dude that is exactly what happend!!! Before paleo or AD I was about 25% BF aftter paleo then ad I stay in the 12-14% range consistantly but just cant seem to break into the >10% range… Even on the cut phase I cant seem to push past 12% My only fear with cutting fat too much is for me its a cleaner better fuel source. I have good energy, bowls operate great, ect.
Even on my carb days I feel slugish & take like 5-6 dumps a day plus Im gassy. I think the fats could play a part aswell cutting saturated fats and replacing with monos/polys could do the trick as well… What do you think? Obviousley you are a BB with low fat so you probably know
[/quote]
You need a nice balance of all kinds of fat. But if I recall, AD is sky high in saturated right? Don’t cut them. I’d keep a tbsp or so of VCO in there daily.
You need a nice balance of all kinds of fat. But if I recall, AD is sky high in saturated right? Don’t cut them. I’d keep a tbsp or so of VCO in there daily. [/quote]
Not really the book just says 55-60% fat. It recomends you eat plenty of red meat but how its cooked isnt a issue as long as its not batter fried. The high red meat intake is suposed to boost GH & test in the body. I feel fine on monos & polys its just much esier to get saturated fats in with meals. What are VCO’s
Heres what I ate today to give you an idea of what Im doing in transision trying to cut this 3% off
HIIT early AM 30min fasted
No carb protien shake <meal 1>
6oz steak plus mixed vegies <meal 2>
Protien Shake + <meal 3>
Weights 60min
Chicken fingers2 cottage cheese almonds <meal 4>
Tilapia 2 fillets fried in olive oil brocolli steamed + coke zero <meal 5>
No cal SF jellow heavy cream + protien shake <meal 6>
When I input my info to call count I get this
Fat - 31.3%
Pro - 57.6%
Carb - 11.1%
Alcohol - 0%
Other - 0%
carbs 55g-9fibre -(18 the carbs in shakes since I use 0 carb but call count doesnt have it) 28 carbs total… Total calls 1938 but I really need to get this to 2500 I think I may be under eating hence slowing my burn
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
You need a nice balance of all kinds of fat. But if I recall, AD is sky high in saturated right? Don’t cut them. I’d keep a tbsp or so of VCO in there daily. [/quote]
Not really the book just says 55-60% fat. It recomends you eat plenty of red meat but how its cooked isnt a issue as long as its not batter fried. The high red meat intake is suposed to boost GH & test in the body. I feel fine on monos & polys its just much esier to get saturated fats in with meals. What are VCO’s
Heres what I ate today to give you an idea of what Im doing in transision trying to cut this 3% off
HIIT early AM 30min fasted
No carb protien shake <meal 1>
6oz steak plus mixed vegies <meal 2>
Protien Shake + <meal 3>
Weights 60min
Chicken fingers2 cottage cheese almonds <meal 4>
Tilapia 2 fillets fried in olive oil brocolli steamed + coke zero <meal 5>
No cal SF jellow heavy cream + protien shake <meal 6>
When I input my info to call count I get this
Fat - 31.3%
Pro - 57.6%
Carb - 11.1%
Alcohol - 0%
Other - 0%
carbs 55g-9fibre -(18 the carbs in shakes since I use 0 carb but call count doesnt have it) 28 carbs total… Total calls 1938 but I really need to get this to 2500 I think I may be under eating hence slowing my burn
[/quote]
VCO is virgin coconut oil. What is your cardio and training looking like? And also what does your refeed day look like?
Might not be a bad time to start carb cycling either.
Thanks
My training generally looks like this
8AM 45min SS cardio (no food) M-SA sometimes I do 20-30 HIIT if I dont feel like putting in 45min
Weight work
Back, Legs, Arms repeat M-SA ( All weigh work is 45-60min) Pretty much all stuff is 80% 4x10 about 10 excerses in a routine
No direct shoulder or chest work as I am healing from a shoulder surgery so I do shoulder rehab routines & stretching daily + push ups
SU Refeed days look like this
Pancakes & syrup + fresh fruit or cereal
Pasta & some meat, or asian food with rice
Noodles & some meat or maybe a sandwitch on wheat/multi G bread
A baked potato
Some kind of desert Icecream or something super sweet
I snack on clean stuff like fruits & salads sometimes I’ll have a hamburger or pizza but for the most part its pretty clean
Also I only do 1 refead day per week when trying to cut
I havent tried carb cycling becuase it seems to sciency and easy to mess up… Generally why I like AD is its simplicity but Im not married to it something new could be fun. After so many years low carb the stuff I generally crave is things like ribs and steaks or buttery seafood. But I do like rice and whole grain breads too.
Never heard back J hows the training and refeed look? Im down another 2lbs just by counting my cals and keeping protien at 50% 3 out of 6 days. Time to carb up tomorrow 
I’ve been studing carb cycling this week in a nut shell I guess you go heavy carb on hard days and moderate on days you dont need too much help and low on cardio or non lifting days. Have you guys tried carb cycling? Seems like there is alot of systems out there so its pretty much trial and error I quess.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Never heard back J hows the training and refeed look? Im down another 2lbs just by counting my cals and keeping protien at 50% 3 out of 6 days. Time to carb up tomorrow I’ve been studing carb cycling this week in a nut shell I guess you go heavy carb on hard days and moderate on days you dont need too much help and low on cardio or non lifting days. Have you guys tried carb cycling? Seems like there is alot of systems out there so its pretty much trial and error I quess.[/quote]
That’s cuz i wasn’t exactly sure which direction to recommend and wanted to think about it a little bit more.
As far as cardio I think it’s best to either stick with fasted morning low intensity…OR HIIT. Don’t mix.
I wouldn’t cycle yet. Don’t want to change too many variables too fast. If you dropped the weight that’s great. Just stick to same new macros every day of the week and keep your refeed as is. See how you progress and check in in a week. I’m curious to see how you respond to this next refeed.
Will do thanks bro… I pretty much do the ss cardio fasted every day the only time I do HIIT is if I dont have much time. I’ll keep it simple and keep macs the same next week & see how it rolls. I’ll try and keep my refeed clean.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
I’ll try and keep my refeed clean.[/quote]
Why? Enjoy it.
Just weighed in & did my measurements lost 1lb this week and BF is still 13% but my skinfold test dropped about 2mm on my belly & thigh measurement so I feel thats a plus. The current program I’ve been running since you gave me the advice has helped me drop about a lb a week. I think I am gaining some mass as well just based on the mirror & feedback from people around me.
My current routine is 45min cardio in the morning before I eat then 45-60min of weight training around 4PM Not on the weights Im only resting 30-60sec between sets so its a good burn.
As far as nutrition Im still running the AD but Im eating only 2000-2200 cals keeping protien at 50% and only 30g of carbs M-SA with a anything goes style carb up on Sundays. I could drop another 500cals per day but I feel like I will be starving. My workouts are pretty tough and by Wed I am wore out. I think if I did the mid week carb up that would help but since fat loss is my goal now I will probably stick it out. Im pleased with size and strength so Im not so much concerned with scale weight as I am BF%
Not sure if I mentioned it before but I am running about 3-4 iu a day of HGH and 1cc of T cyp every week I hope that doesnt offend you but I have been on trt 4 awhile & thats my usual set up. Im thinking maybe thats helping with the mass… Any pointers would be apreciated thanks J
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Stats 35 180lb M BF 13-14% (goal 10%)
I’ve read a lot of conflicting info on body fat set points and pushing past them to shred off that nagging 2-3%
One school of thought is the eat more frequent meals & no need to count cals
The other is count cals and create a calorie deficit
I’ve tried both for 2 weeks and still cant move the needle
Heres my basic diet an routine any pointers would be appreciated
Anabolic diet 12xBW in calls M-SU with only 1 carb up day
3 Split 45min weights Back, Legs, Arms Reapeat Off Sunday for refead ( No chest and shoulder work as Im healing from Shoulder repair just doing rehab work or a few light sets here and there)
45min SS Cardio M-SA fasted in mornings
Why weight goes up slightly MM seems bigger in mirror and BF have stayed about the same for 3-4 weeks
Supps protien shakes 3x day and multivitamins
Gear 2Mg Test cyp weekly 2-3ius HGH daily [/quote]
1/ Who measured your bf levels?.. this site is fast becoming the approx 11-12% bf site. Fucking amazing how many people have the same bf levels on this site… mostly all guesstimations.
2/ What are you ACTUALLY doing during your workouts?
3/ Why are you taking juice when your putting in 3x 45 minute lifting sessions a week?
4/ Fasted steady state cardio is the WORST training method for losing bodyfat… infact THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. Give up that worthless shitty training and start working harder on your weight training and REAL hiit training.
5/ Despite what the gurus on this site are trying to feed (pun intended) you. Low carb diets are NOT anabolic. Anabolic = muscle building. So anyone that knows anything about hypertrophy knows that your carb intake should be approx 50% of your daily caloric intake. How the hell do you have enough energy for a decent workout. Protein is NOT energy food and FAT is not an appropriate form of energy for weight lifting… Your brain CANNOT use protein or fat for energy it has to have cho. I’m surprised you can even remember how the hell to get yourself to the gym…
6/ 2 weeks is NOT enough time to tell if your new regime is working. Educated professionals will tell you that you should allow approx 6 weeks to determine if your making adequate gains or losses for that matter.
7/ You obviously have not been below 10% bf before, otherwise you would already know that as your bf gets close to single digits then you have to be MORE patient and dedicated to the cause to lose those last few percentage points… flipping everything you do around every cpl weeks is not the answer as is testament to the fact your here trying to find magic potions to get you to where you want to go…
8/ Do yourself a favour and go and listen to Dr Lane Norton phd, and Jacob Wilson phd at muscle college radio… they will educate you on this issue of continued bf loss…
also go visit drsquat on line and get yourself educated. Fred Hatfield aka dr squat was the first man to squat more than 1000 lbs in a competitive lift at 46yo and also the grandfather of FITNESS EDUCATION… there is plenty of advice on his site that refers to exactly what your asking. I guarantee you that you will learn more in one afternoon listening to and reading about what these guys have to say than you will in 10 years on this site.
1st off since I got some solid advice a few weeks back from jsk and some other guys I have actually broken my platue and am starting to shed 1-2lbs a week so I think I’ve been doing ok. In regards to BF I use a acu mesure caliper and punch the numbers into this site
leehayward.com/free-bodyfat-calculator.htm
generally I have my wife do it
I dont have the time for dunk tanks and all that stuff… Not sure why other people are stuck on 12% maybe its a common stalling point
2) As far as workouts go I do 10 sets 4x10 each I start with the heavy componds 1st I always add weight I can be more specifc if need be
3) Im lifting 6x per week & I was just mentioning my TRT protocal in case its helpful
4) Everything I’ve ever heard says SS at 45min is a longer burn 20min of HIIT and is less taxing on legs ( I train legs heavy 2x per week so I prefer not to burn them out on cardio)
5) I’ve done 50% carb before and I did’nt do well with it I function better high fat. I have had no problems with energy on high fat and have done 5/3/1, Jujitsu, manual labor, & cross fit stuff and never gassed out on high fat. I think its un fair to say there is 1 diet style thats right for everyone.
6) I agree 2 weeks is not but I think 45min cardio and 45min weights 6x week isnt a bad start considering Im just comming of major shoulder repair
7) I have been at 10% b4 got there with paleo and maintained on AD before
8) I’ll check it out
Thanks for the feedback
hey JSKBRAC solid advice bro down another 2lbs and Im at 11.5 BF now… Bassically all I did was count cals try and create about a 1000 deficit daily, cardio is SS every morning Macros are 50% protien most days 5-10% carbs and the rest fat. 1 refeed day per week and on that day I just use common sense. Best of all muscle gains are there and the cals arent that low so it really doesnt feel like a diet. As long as I eat 5-6 times Im not hungry too bad. Thanks again
Good deal! Yea, unfortunately as you get that lean to keep moving forward you have to get more meticulous about counting macros.
Keep up the good work.
Another 2lbs down the drain still hanging at 11.5BF but so far all is well with my current workout regime and macros. I think I’ll be at 10% in a few weeks
How are you assessing your bodyfat?
I’ve personally never been a fan of skinfold measurements. Weekly pics at same time and bodyweight were enough for Shelby =)
I use a skin fold measurement but I also use the BF machine at my gym… Its one of those pulse things you hold on to. Then I just take the numebr in middle assuming its pretty close. As far as looks go Im looking leaner and more defined week by week in the mirror so thats all that matters for a every day joe like me
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
I use a skin fold measurement but I also use the BF machine at my gym… Its one of those pulse things you hold on to. Then I just take the numebr in middle assuming its pretty close. As far as looks go Im looking leaner and more defined week by week in the mirror so thats all that matters for a every day joe like me[/quote]
Dude, if you have been as consistent as you say I really really doubt your not still burning up fat. I’d honestly ditch the skin folds and machine. Machine and human error are way too big now that you’re pretty lean. Pics are good and waistline at this stage.
Also, here’s the absolute best way to see if you’re really leaning out. Look at the hamstrings!