How To Make Deadlifts As Hypertrophic As Possible?

I have often been recognizing people at the gym, who lift tremendous weights in deadlift, but still look like they never ever lifted a weight in their lives. As I think of it, I can also recall a semi-professional powerlifter, who falls under the same theory, though looking “fit”. @Christian_Thibaudeau also posted an article lately, about deadlifts being less effective for hypertrophy.

This may be a topic of its own, but I’m merely interested in discussing what can be done - To make deadlifts as hypertrophic as possible? Is it a question of volume? Emphasize the negative (see below)? Other tweaks? @T3hPwnisher

Personally, I have been gifted with a favourable back genetically. This meaning I respond to almost any back stimulus, thus having noticed decent results even from deadlifts. That said, I do emphasize the negatives generally (even in deadlifts to a minor extent).

If you find it appropriate, please comment @Gareth_Sapstead

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I’d agree that conventional deadlifts just aren’t that great for hypertrophy. I very rarely program them for my IFBB Pros / bodybuilders / physique athletes. That’s not to say they have no place, but when I’m selecting an exercise to develop a specific area then there always seems to be a better option. Eg for glutes and hamstrings then RDL’s and stiff-legged deadlifts are far better options. Especially for hamstrings as you’ll achieve longer muscle lengths. For quads then try heels elevated trap bar deadlifts (I wrote a t-nation article about those). For back then dead’s are only working in a stabilizing manner anyway.

For those that argue conventional deadlifts are a full body exercise and you get a big anabolic hormone response, we KNOW from research this short term spike in testosterone, MGF etc. does not lead to any longterm adaptations.

To play devils advocate here, though, if someone enjoys performing conventional deadlifts, are well suited to their body structure, and can accumulate sufficient volume with them for 6/8/10 weeks etc consistently, then it would definitely help that person slap on some muscle. But rarely does this person exist.

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It’s interesting you tagged me on this, because I’ve honestly expressed a similar sentiment. I feel the deadlift is an excellent strength test but a less than excellent size/strength BUILDER. I feel like we build size and strength TO deadlift more, but that deadlifting, in and of itself, is not the most effective tool for developing size or strength.

If nothing else: consider how arbitrary the starting point of a deadlift is. It’s PURELY determined by plate diameter. No matter if you’re 7’ tall or 4’ tall, everyone pulls from the same starting height on a deadlift. That’s just silly, at least if your goal is to build a specific quality.

Part of me wonders if this quandary ties into your recent post over on the flame free confession thread, observing how some trainees can deadlift prodigious amounts of weights without having a physique that reflects as such.

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Do what bodybuilders do when they deadlift.

Use a hand or foot position that emphasizes a particular area of the body. Like hands wide for more upper back and feet wide for more hips and glutes. Or Heels close for more hams.

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I love the point that’s being made here, and also appreciate how dynamic the language is. These are excellent examples of “A deadlift” vs “THE deadlift”

Similar to…

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Another way could be to do deadlifts last in the routine. Figure out what part deadlifts hit the most, like lower back. Do rows, chins, shrugs or whatever first, then finish with deads to get focused work that one “piece” and little extra work for the rest of your back.

I swear I didn’t make this up, but I’m having a hard time finding a good example of somebody doing it.

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It’s like a reverse “pre-exhaust”. Instead of fatiguing the strong part first so that the weaker parts are forced to take over, you fatigue the weaker parts first. Might actually make it tricky to really get that lower back firing up!

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I have seen this movie way to many times to instantly recognize the scene from one frame…

Should you deadlift in your khakis?

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Indeed, my astonishing experiences at the gym made me wonder whether the deadlift is useful for anything - apart from strength testing? Your contribution here is valuable, considering your extensive experience into the more “extreme” variables of training. I was just curious whether you had achieved anything out of the ordinary with deadlifts…

Thank you @T3hPwnisher. Also many thanks to @Gareth_Sapstead for an in depth reply and to @FlatsFarmer for trying to revive the topic.

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I might be mistaken, but I think John Meadows has a few programs that do something like that.

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This is interesting! I’ve always had the assumtion that the deadlift was a back excercise. Having learned some more, I realize it’s one name for many excercises - though primarily for the posterior chain (or maybe quadriceps).

RDLs or stiff-legged deadlifts seem to be in favor of many. This must mean something.

A big, quite intellectual guy at the gym told me the other day: “Your lats tells me you do a lot of deadlifting!”. I hadn’t the heart to tell him the truth (primarily chinups, and to a lesser degree deadlifting). Do the deadlift actually hit the lats hard? My deadlifting gives my lower back a good workout - which makes it kind of hard to progress in load.

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Oof. Let’s resurrect that old thread. Thousands of comments debating what the point of pre-exhaust is.

Train muscles so they’re too fatigued to over compensate for target muscle or pre-exhaust target muscle so they are primed.

You are correct, sir. Usually RDLs at the end of leg day and rack pulls (but sometimes from the floor) at the end of back day.

I think they can, but it’s always going to be only isometrically. It also takes a ton of focus and weight off the bar, in my opinion, to really hit anything lat with the deadlift. I can get good erector work and decent trap work, though.

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Some of the best backs of all-time have been built with the deadlift as a staple movement. As @TrainForPain implied though, erectors and traps are going to be most involved… That valley down your back created by the separation of the erectors just looks awesome, and is usually most prevalent in big deadlifters.

With that said though, I think the deadlift does contribute to overall back development but more indirectly. I have heard lots of podcasters talk about how a big deadlift carries over to all their other back movements, and I have experienced this myself. So even if the deadlift on it’s own may not cause significant growth in some parts of the back, it gives you that base to allow you to prosper better in other movements.

But then there’s the argument of why not just hit those back movements harder in the first place? It always comes down to bang for buck for me. A beginner, or can only get in 3x/week? It’s probably a good idea to do a big deadlift variation. A bit more time in the gym or you’re strong enough for the deadlift to kill the rest of your workout or leak into other days? Maybe start thinking about training/targetting the muscle groups involved a bit more effectively.

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As a 67-year-old who’s been training for hypertrophy for over fifty-two years since age 15, I’ve incorporated deadlifts (when I rotate them into my programs) exactly that way for forty-seven years - - as the very last exercise of a workout.

I use a five-day split of quads/hams/upper back, off, shoulders/chest/arms/lower back, calves/abs, off.

When I’ve had them in my program during the past twenty years, I’ve been doing deadlifts as the last exercise of my entire workout of shoulders, then chest, then arms, then lower back.

For lower back, I currently do weighted prone back extensions first (those being my always-in-every-program lower back movement), then do a single deadlift set of 12-15 reps with as much poundage as I can manage.

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Does this apply to just “traditional” deadlifts or can it apply to the trapbar deadlift?

Deads last for 47 years? That’s awesome, I knew somebody was doing it.

How often do you rotate deadlifts in and out of your routine? Or maybe how long do you train the deadlift before removing it. Then how much non deadlift training before it comes back?

Taking it in and out does seem like a good idea, but how long can you go without deadlifting before you’re starting back at zero?

It’s also cool to hear about the prone back extensions, I’ve liked those since I was a teenager too.

Hehe…actually, deads last for over 52 years. The first five years of my lifelong training, I’d do deadlifts earlier in a workout (especially my first 18 months, when all my workouts were full-body/three times per week, which was universally standard protocol in that era for beginners).

I began doing deads exclusively last in any workout after about five years then have done them last for forty-seven years.

My experience may skew, since I began doing deads last only AFTER reaching my genetic mass limits (which, depending on consistency, appropriate progressive training, adequate nutrition, adequate rest, genetics again, and probably luck avoiding long unplanned layoffs due to injuries or illness, are reached after three to five consecutive years of drug-free bodybuilding).

Meaning, all the training/eating/resting I’ve been doing for the last forty-seven years are essentially for maintenance of the muscle I built in those first five years.

Anyway…by the end of those first five years, I’d progressed to my genetic strength ceilings of poundages for squats, shrugs, barbell rows, straightlegged deads (done for hamstrings), overhead presses, the back extensions, even weighted crunches.

So, even when not doing deadlifts, my lower back and grip gets plenty of at least indirect work from those, which maintains most of my lower back strength while deadlifts are not in my rotation.

Maintenance bodybuilding (as a noncompetitive bodybuilder) requires as much intensity and dedication as it does when initially building to genetic mass limits. Hard work is as necessary to keep muscle as it is to initially add it.

But maintenance hypertrophy training becomes a balancing act, especially as inevitable aging occurs. Avoiding new injury, working around old injuries or chronic problems like a job-incurred injury (I was a roofer/builder who incurred injuries), and the need for less volume/more recovery time has to be balanced with ensuring enough intensity/density/volume/frequency to prevent, or at least retard, atrophy.

What works for me is periodically easing up by omitting one of the two nervous-system-taxing exercises, squats and deadlifts, for about a month. I’ve always kept squats in my program (unless injured); while leg presses are just as effective for quad hypertrophy, and I’ve used them, I prefer squats.

Therefore, I’ll omit deads for about four weeks, usually every sixth month or so, just to allow my body more longer-term systemic recovery. As I mentioned, I’m still doing other heavy stuff which indirectly works my lower back, as well as always doing prone back extensions, so, the muscle gets worked plenty enough to maintain.

Also, even when I’m doing deadlifts, I do them only once in ten days. That is, on the five-day cycle I use, I include that set of deadlifts in every other lower back workout. I’ve found, at my level and for my genetics, especially after age 50 and of course now at my age of 67, performing a max set of 15 reps more than once in ten days is too taxing on my lower back.

After I’ve omitted deads for a month, I’ll resume doing them at about 50 - 60 pounds less the first time I rotate them back in. Muscle-nerve memory enables me to gradually return to my max poundage; at my age, I typically do that in a minimum of six weeks.

Remember, as I said, I’m all maintenance. I went as far as I genetically, drug-free could mass-wise in my first five years of training. So, my deadlift scheme is part of my goal to maintain as much as possible of what I built in those first five years, with no illusions about adding more mass (impossible anyway) nor even about adding poundage beyond the max I’ve been using.

As a post-script…as my experience demonstrates, lifelong bodybuilding is mostly maintenance bodybuilding. I know very well the impatience to build as much mass as possible as fast as possible – I began as a horribly skinny-fat, unathletic guy with less-than-average muscle-mass genetics. Looking at bodybuilding from that eager beginning perspective, the very-short-term is as far as we can usually see. However, if a guy plans on bodybuilding his entire life, then even if it takes him five years instead of three years to build his maximum muscle mass, he’ll have perhaps FIFTY or more years after when he’ll still be bodybuilding. The lesson being, “try to be patient - - as long as you’re consistent and keep progressively training, you will get there; and after you’re there, whether in three, four, or five years, you’ll have ten or more times that number of years ahead of you in bodybuilding anyway”. The often-repeated saying, “Bodybuilding is about the long-term” isn’t a mere cliche’ - - it’s a truth.

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Great answer! I appreciate the extra info.

I guess it’s sad but true about moving into long-term maintenance mode as you go. Still going hard, just doing a little less seems to be the best approach. Thanks for sharing your Style and what made you think that way. I’m in my mid 40s now, so I’m trying to figure out the balance myself.

The deadlift specific detail are great too. A month off every 6 months. A 50-60 pound drop off. Then 6-8 weeks to get the strength back.

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I love this. Very well put. We’re always trying to explain why you don’t have to try to figure out the perfect approach before picking up a weight, and you laid it out clearly.