How to Combat Anti-Climate Change Fools

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
481

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I cant remember if this is thread where folks where talking about GMO, but this is a new study showing a correlation (I know, not cause) but between pigs fed GM feed and a number of problems that went along with it, I just found it interesting. I found the link through the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund.

Its also about the unintentional side effects we get by mixing gmo feed.

Also- if this is the wrong thread, my bad.[/quote]

I file this under the “I cannot prove it, but I truly believe it” category, where this is why Americans are profoundly fatter and unhealthier than other cultures.

Couple that with, a government bureaucracy that ties food and Big Pharma together. Where the food supply literally makes you sick, then making you take every pill under the sun. Both Big Ag and Big Pharma get rich together, and the waistline of America gets fatter.

Just my opinion, but I have seen and traveled enough of the world to see it in my own personal experience.

482

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I cant remember if this is thread where folks where talking about GMO, but this is a new study showing a correlation (I know, not cause) but between pigs fed GM feed and a number of problems that went along with it, I just found it interesting. I found the link through the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund.

Its also about the unintentional side effects we get by mixing gmo feed.

Also- if this is the wrong thread, my bad.[/quote]

Sigh. Even half the studies proposed by the paper are untenable by industrial farm standards, let alone organic standards. Further;

Consequently, no biochemical differences were found between non-GM-fed and
GM-fed pigs. However, the concentration of GGT, which is a measure of liver heath, was
16% lower in GM-fed pigs than non-GM-fed pigs and this result was on the borderline of
statistical significance (Table 5).

This study gives little evidence of even any disease, let alone a disease caused by GM feed. Stomach upset, maybe? Too bad we haven’t been weighing pig uterus for the last 50 yrs. (and throwing out the outliers) to make sure we aren’t poisoning the food supply. At what uterine weight (with otherwise normal biochemistry) does pork become toxic? Does the breed of the pig matter? If the gilts develop massive uterus and die 2 yrs. after they would have been slaughtered, do we pull the pork from the market? Maybe if we’d focused less on growing a second whole pig without any additional costs, humans wouldn’t have to suffer the burden of eating two pigs with potentially enlarged uterus. If GMOs suddenly caused three times the number of fatal intestinal hemorrhaging in pigs, every farmer I know would know about it and stop growing/feeding it. If you Considering pigs can eat out and out garbage (including large concentrations of the native proteins and encoding DNA) with no ill effects, I can only assume that the study is an artifact. With the various premixes and differing mycotoxin analyses, it gets very hard to convincingly say that the genes and/or the proteins were the only variable and/or co-factor(s).

Raw soybeans are toxic to a wide array of animals (including pigs). The proteins have to be denatured before they are safe for consumption (they were in this study). If you’re worried about the denatured proteins and DNA that you feed to pigs and then eat vicariously, you might as well be worried about the non-denatured proteins and DNA you inhale while feeding the pigs. I mean, it would be silly to worry about the genes and proteins from B. thuringiensis in your pork when you have actual B. thuringiensis living on your raw vegetables (recombining it’s genes with other organisms no less!).

Too bad this was published in the Journal of Organic Systems and isn’t likely to be reproduced. Maybe the next author could explain why they excluded a uterus from the control group in a study where uterin weight turned out to be a ‘result’.[/quote]

That just popped on my email and I skimmed it. You obviously have a better understanding of the biology of farming than I do (hands down). I just wanted to post it.

Since you seem to know a shitload more about this than me, what do you think of the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund? Sorry for the topic change, I just heard about them due to the Wisconsin Dairy case.

Edit- I missed you talking about pigs eating everything, I raise Berkshire hogs so I understand that totally… I wasnt trying to say pigs being pigs is bad. Sorry for that.

483

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I cant remember if this is thread where folks where talking about GMO, but this is a new study showing a correlation (I know, not cause) but between pigs fed GM feed and a number of problems that went along with it, I just found it interesting. I found the link through the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund.

Its also about the unintentional side effects we get by mixing gmo feed.

Also- if this is the wrong thread, my bad.[/quote]

I file this under the “I cannot prove it, but I truly believe it” category, where this is why Americans are profoundly fatter and unhealthier than other cultures.

Couple that with, a government bureaucracy that ties food and Big Pharma together. Where the food supply literally makes you sick, then making you take every pill under the sun. Both Big Ag and Big Pharma get rich together, and the waistline of America gets fatter.

Just my opinion, but I have seen and traveled enough of the world to see it in my own personal experience.[/quote]

For me man I think Americans are so fat because we are so damn lazy. Regardless of your food source, if you burn the calories you wont get fat, right? I live right next to the richest Indian tribe in America, the Southern Utes. They have an annual growth fund of ~$20 billion (never lost ancestral land + natural gas) and they are the fattest group of folks I have ever encountered. Pretty much each house you see in town has a wheelchair ramp. It really is a shame when a group of folks with enough money to do pretty much anything sits around doing nothing.

484

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Just my opinion, but I have seen and traveled enough of the world to see it in my own personal experience.[/quote]

Not enough or not recently enough. Americans probably span the BMI spectrum more than any other country and even hit the high end more often, but without a doubt, other countries average higher with a tighter distribution.

I know the beaches of Northern Europe made me nostalgic for L.A. or Miami Beach, but it was most obvious in Mexico. Americans were overwhelmingly the ones who made you look away but, despite the abundance of natives, Americans were always the one’s that people stared at.

485

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

Since you seem to know a shitload more about this than me, what do you think of the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund? Sorry for the topic change, I just heard about them due to the Wisconsin Dairy case.[/quote]

They’re sensationalist and zealous, which is worrisome, but they are a counterpoint to a government that oversteps its bounds at virtually every turn. I’ve always supported the idea of the FDA acting as a standard of information generation and truth in labeling rather than enforcing (usually arbitrary) standards to which producers have to comply. Private contracts are private contracts, unfortunately, I can totally see the FTCLDF injecting itself into a private contract where GMO foods are knowingly or willfully ignorantly purchased or consumed.

They certainly bit hard on the reports of an ‘unknown pathogen’ that, apparently, destroys Roundup crops en masse (despite a significant lack of commercial pathogenic crop failures) and are pretty good about incriminating Monsanto for not having evidence to refute the unknown pathogen.

486

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

Since you seem to know a shitload more about this than me, what do you think of the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund? Sorry for the topic change, I just heard about them due to the Wisconsin Dairy case.[/quote]

They’re sensationalist and zealous, which is worrisome, but they are a counterpoint to a government that oversteps its bounds at virtually every turn. I’ve always supported the idea of the FDA acting as a standard of information generation and truth in labeling rather than enforcing (usually arbitrary) standards to which producers have to comply. Private contracts are private contracts, unfortunately, I can totally see the FTCLDF injecting itself into a private contract where GMO foods are knowingly or willfully ignorantly purchased or consumed.

They certainly bit hard on the reports of an ‘unknown pathogen’ that, apparently, destroys Roundup crops en masse (despite a significant lack of commercial pathogenic crop failures) and are pretty good about incriminating Monsanto for not having evidence to refute the unknown pathogen.[/quote]

Thanks for that. I agree with your first paragraph completely. I’m not familiar with the ‘unknown pathogen’ so I’ll have to read up on that.

487

Here is the ‘unknown pathogen’.

488

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I cant remember if this is thread where folks where talking about GMO, but this is a new study showing a correlation (I know, not cause) but between pigs fed GM feed and a number of problems that went along with it, I just found it interesting. I found the link through the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund.

Its also about the unintentional side effects we get by mixing gmo feed.

Also- if this is the wrong thread, my bad.[/quote]

I file this under the “I cannot prove it, but I truly believe it” category, where this is why Americans are profoundly fatter and unhealthier than other cultures.

Couple that with, a government bureaucracy that ties food and Big Pharma together. Where the food supply literally makes you sick, then making you take every pill under the sun. Both Big Ag and Big Pharma get rich together, and the waistline of America gets fatter.

Just my opinion, but I have seen and traveled enough of the world to see it in my own personal experience.[/quote]

For me man I think Americans are so fat because we are so damn lazy. Regardless of your food source, if you burn the calories you wont get fat, right? I live right next to the richest Indian tribe in America, the Southern Utes. They have an annual growth fund of ~$20 billion (never lost ancestral land + natural gas) and they are the fattest group of folks I have ever encountered. Pretty much each house you see in town has a wheelchair ramp. It really is a shame when a group of folks with enough money to do pretty much anything sits around doing nothing.[/quote]

I agree that laziness is a factor But I have to think that cleaner fuel gives cleaner performance (again, something I believe but I couldn’t prove.) I have seen my health, performance, and physique perform better with cleaner food (food not fucked with by man).

I think it is even more apparent for guys like us, who work out and have performance/physique goals.

489

Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?

490

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?[/quote]

we all know those so called conservatives never whack out :slight_smile:

491

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?[/quote]

Actually, it’s a pretty legitimate link between the two. Climate change, regardless of whether or not it’s anthropogenic, will lead to crop failures in many areas whose economies are primarily agricultural ones. That will also lead to higher food prices, something we already witnessing regarding many of the crops that come from the Midwestern U.S., an area that has been hit hard by severe droughts in successive years.

We already know that in many poor areas, women resort to prostitution as a source of income. This will only increase as undeveloped, dirt-poor regions are hit very hard by the effects of climate change. It sounds wacky to think that climate change will lead to an increase in prostitution, but once you take a look at the effects climate change can have on certain regions, it actually makes a lot of sense.

Of course, other areas in the world will see an increase in agricultural viability as more crops become available to grow that weren’t previously capable of being grown in those areas. So, perhaps prostitution will drop in those areas and a net change won’t occur. It might only be a shift in where prostitution festers. I don’t think that it will be a very significant change in numbers in either direction from a global standpoint, but I’m sure that certain regions will see some spikes in prostitution as their economies are hit harder and harder by the effects of climate change.

492

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?[/quote]

That warning is contained in a resolution the California Democrat introduced in Congress on Friday. In House Concurrent Resolution 36, Rep. Lee and 11 co-sponsors note that warming temperatures could push as many as 3 million people into poverty by the year 2050. Some of those people may be women looking for any possible way to provide for themselves and their children.

The world population increases by 3 billion people (in 2050) and 3 million fall into poverty. I call that a motherf$cking win! Maybe some of the 10 billion people on the Earth then will be able to figure it out. Do functioning brains in jars and otherwise functioning human nervous systems count as people? What about a person with an integrated AI; is that one person solving the problem or two, or does it strictly depend on the number of processing cores?

Weird how there’s no discussion about how prostitution will increase as these nations rid themselves of of their dictators, grant their women more rights (sexual or other), and generally gain more disposable income. And, we can’t get bills passed to stop one tribe from pillaging, raping, and murdering the women and girls of another tribe in Africa, but paid consensual sex must be prevented at all costs!

Seriously, charging into the third world to prevent prostitution and convert non-believers to the side of climate change is so 11th Century. AGW, amen.

493

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?[/quote]

Actually, it’s a pretty legitimate link between the two. Climate change, regardless of whether or not it’s anthropogenic, will lead to crop failures in many areas whose economies are primarily agricultural ones. That will also lead to higher food prices, something we already witnessing regarding many of the crops that come from the Midwestern U.S., an area that has been hit hard by severe droughts in successive years.

We already know that in many poor areas, women resort to prostitution as a source of income. This will only increase as undeveloped, dirt-poor regions are hit very hard by the effects of climate change. It sounds wacky to think that climate change will lead to an increase in prostitution, but once you take a look at the effects climate change can have on certain regions, it actually makes a lot of sense.

Of course, other areas in the world will see an increase in agricultural viability as more crops become available to grow that weren’t previously capable of being grown in those areas. So, perhaps prostitution will drop in those areas and a net change won’t occur. It might only be a shift in where prostitution festers. I don’t think that it will be a very significant change in numbers in either direction from a global standpoint, but I’m sure that certain regions will see some spikes in prostitution as their economies are hit harder and harder by the effects of climate change.[/quote]

They were better off trying to suggest there would be an increase in poverty in general, than strictly prostitution. I am sure burglary and theft would also increase, but that won’t grab a headline nearly as well.

Then again, this Democrat was seeking hysteria rather than logic.

494

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Actually, it’s a pretty legitimate link between the two.[/quote]

Bullshit. It’s pseudo-intellectuals who paid too much attention to Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park.

A butterfly flaps it’s wings in Peking and in Central Park you get prostitution instead of tusnamis.

495

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oakland Democrat claims Global Warming will lead to prostitution…

Really Liberals ?[/quote]

Actually, it’s a pretty legitimate link between the two. Climate change, regardless of whether or not it’s anthropogenic, will lead to crop failures in many areas whose economies are primarily agricultural ones. That will also lead to higher food prices, something we already witnessing regarding many of the crops that come from the Midwestern U.S., an area that has been hit hard by severe droughts in successive years.

We already know that in many poor areas, women resort to prostitution as a source of income. This will only increase as undeveloped, dirt-poor regions are hit very hard by the effects of climate change. It sounds wacky to think that climate change will lead to an increase in prostitution, but once you take a look at the effects climate change can have on certain regions, it actually makes a lot of sense.

Of course, other areas in the world will see an increase in agricultural viability as more crops become available to grow that weren’t previously capable of being grown in those areas. So, perhaps prostitution will drop in those areas and a net change won’t occur. It might only be a shift in where prostitution festers. I don’t think that it will be a very significant change in numbers in either direction from a global standpoint, but I’m sure that certain regions will see some spikes in prostitution as their economies are hit harder and harder by the effects of climate change.[/quote]

They were better off trying to suggest there would be an increase in poverty in general, than strictly prostitution. I am sure burglary and theft would also increase, but that won’t grab a headline nearly as well.

Then again, this Democrat was seeking hysteria rather than logic.[/quote]

I agree that it’s a sensational take on things designed to be alarmist and provocative, but my point still stands.

496

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Actually, it’s a pretty legitimate link between the two.[/quote]

Bullshit. It’s pseudo-intellectuals who paid too much attention to Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park.

A butterfly flaps it’s wings in Peking and in Central Park you get prostitution instead of tusnamis.

You know what, you’re right. Climate change does NOT lead to crop failures in agricultural economies, agricultural economies CAN thrive in the face of the collapse of the industry that sustains them, prostitution is NOT a social phenomenon tied directly to poverty and I AM full of shit.

Gimme a break. Who’s the pseudo-intellectual now? You sound ridiculous.

497

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You know what, you’re right. Climate change does NOT lead to crop failures in agricultural economies, agricultural economies CAN thrive in the face of the collapse of the industry that sustains them, prostitution is NOT a social phenomenon tied directly to poverty and I AM full of shit.[/quote]

The rise in wealth, agriculture, AND prostitution concurrent to climate change in this country over the last 100-200 years alone stands as evidence that you actually are full of shit. You tend not to have prostitution when there is no economy, rather just plain pillage and raping.

Unstable sexual partnerships cost individuals. In Western Societies, during times of economic depression, you get less divorce and less prostitution. We’ve had a >50% drop in prostitution over the last two decades, would that be because of the cooling globe, the agricultural economy that isn’t collapsing, or the unprecedented numbers of women who are suddenly able to forego prostitution and find work around the world in the fields? Or is there just no real correlation between the climate, agriculture, economics, and prostitution? Why the spitball stories about the world collapsing into a bed of sin if we don’t control our carbon emissions?

Even if my intellect is entirely superficial, a cursory glance at the UCR or the most superficial awareness of the last 20-200 yrs. of this country’s history is enough to dispel the bullshitting.

498

Everything causes a rise in prostitution.

Casinos opening- Whores abound!

Crack houses opening- Whores Galore!

Large construction projects on the rise- More Whores!

Global economic implosion- Fucking whores worldwide increased in direct proportion to the downward adjustment of each individual countries economy, creating a global explosion of whores. Some of them even started splitting like amoeba, and caused a sticky funk to form on the Mediterranean sea, emanating most heavily from Greece.

499

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You know what, you’re right. Climate change does NOT lead to crop failures in agricultural economies, agricultural economies CAN thrive in the face of the collapse of the industry that sustains them, prostitution is NOT a social phenomenon tied directly to poverty and I AM full of shit.[/quote]

The rise in wealth, agriculture, AND prostitution concurrent to climate change in this country over the last 100-200 years alone stands as evidence that you actually are full of shit. You tend not to have prostitution when there is no economy, rather just plain pillage and raping.

Unstable sexual partnerships cost individuals. In Western Societies, during times of economic depression, you get less divorce and less prostitution. We’ve had a >50% drop in prostitution over the last two decades, would that be because of the cooling globe, the agricultural economy that isn’t collapsing, or the unprecedented numbers of women who are suddenly able to forego prostitution and find work around the world in the fields? Or is there just no real correlation between the climate, agriculture, economics, and prostitution? Why the spitball stories about the world collapsing into a bed of sin if we don’t control our carbon emissions?

Even if my intellect is entirely superficial, a cursory glance at the UCR or the most superficial awareness of the last 20-200 yrs. of this country’s history is enough to dispel the bullshitting.[/quote]

I disagree.

500

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You know what, you’re right. Climate change does NOT lead to crop failures in agricultural economies, agricultural economies CAN thrive in the face of the collapse of the industry that sustains them, prostitution is NOT a social phenomenon tied directly to poverty and I AM full of shit.[/quote]

The rise in wealth, agriculture, AND prostitution concurrent to climate change in this country over the last 100-200 years alone stands as evidence that you actually are full of shit. You tend not to have prostitution when there is no economy, rather just plain pillage and raping.

Unstable sexual partnerships cost individuals. In Western Societies, during times of economic depression, you get less divorce and less prostitution. We’ve had a >50% drop in prostitution over the last two decades, would that be because of the cooling globe, the agricultural economy that isn’t collapsing, or the unprecedented numbers of women who are suddenly able to forego prostitution and find work around the world in the fields? Or is there just no real correlation between the climate, agriculture, economics, and prostitution? Why the spitball stories about the world collapsing into a bed of sin if we don’t control our carbon emissions?

Even if my intellect is entirely superficial, a cursory glance at the UCR or the most superficial awareness of the last 20-200 yrs. of this country’s history is enough to dispel the bullshitting.[/quote]

You cite “Western Societies” over the last 100-200 years. What western society is a predominantly agricultural economy in that time span? I guess you missed my initial post in which I indicated that this applied to economies that depend largely on agriculture.