How to 'Bulk' For Naturals

Training
281

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
the first goal is to add an additional 15-22lbs. and maintain that bodyweight for at least 18 months and no longer than 36. [/quote]

Is this “set weight theory”? (not my term) – or is there another reason for holding weight for some minimal-to-maximal time period?
[/quote]

I was taught it has more to do with ‘strength adaptation’ than anything else. If you are performing the front squat once a week; how many opportunities are there to PR in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc. IMO…solid adaptation takes longer than we expect, and if a number of rep. ranges are used you can only be ‘in the groove’ of one range at a time(we are talking every drop of water from the sponge here). Of course there is a limit to anything, and if bodycomp. is a goal, at some point you have to evaluate progress, adjust the plan, to move forward.

282

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
It begins with a known lean weight. Assuming a lifter weighs 145lbs in lean condition; the first goal is to add an additional 15-22lbs. and maintain that bodyweight for at least 18 months and no longer than 36. Most lifters require cardio during the surplus periods. During the surplus period the lifter should strive to properly increase their strength in some form of horizontal press, vertical press, squat, row, and pull. Lateral raises, shrugs, curls, extensions, and other exercises should also be included as needed to balance out the development. This may involve several program changes and strength development across a number of rep. ranges.

At the end of the surplus period a deficit period is used to reach the same relative leanness the lifter was at while weighing 145 (this should never take longer than 10-12 weeks). If the goal is continued gains this lean state should be maintained long enough to enjoy the benefits/reward of your hard work; but remember there is a difference between showing and growing. Gradually add 15-20% to the new bodyweight and repeat.

[some lifters may progress enough during the first surplus that they find themselves to be satisfactorily lean condition at the point a deficit would be called for. In this case the 10-15% should be gradually added to the lifters existing weight and the surplus work resumed] [/quote]

Thank you. This was very very helpful.

I really only have one question. Roughly what kind of time period should it take to put on the 10-15%?

Personally, I’ve been sticking with roughly 2.5lbs per week and that seems to keep my lifts moving up and maintain roughly the same degree of visual leanness (assessed via photos).[/quote]

I like a 2lbs per week limit; however while leanness is maintained I don’t object to a bit more.

283

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
the first goal is to add an additional 15-22lbs. and maintain that bodyweight for at least 18 months and no longer than 36. [/quote]

Is this “set weight theory”? (not my term) – or is there another reason for holding weight for some minimal-to-maximal time period?
[/quote]

I was taught it has more to do with ‘strength adaptation’ than anything else. If you are performing the front squat once a week; how many opportunities are there to PR in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc. IMO…solid adaptation takes longer than we expect, and if a number of rep. ranges are used you can only be ‘in the groove’ of one range at a time(we are talking every drop of water from the sponge here). Of course there is a limit to anything, and if bodycomp. is a goal, at some point you have to evaluate progress, adjust the plan, to move forward.
[/quote]

Excellent. Thank you.

Oddly enough, I will be front squatting this evening :wink:

284

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
Question for X

How do you know when your body is “ready to grow”?

One of your more common responses to the lean bulk crew is something along the lines of “why would I worry about cutting, when my body is primed for growth?” And you frequently speak as if the only way to gain REAL MASS (what you fancy yourself to have), is to just keep pushing, other wise you will limit your potential. Why do you think disregarding higher fat gain, or accepting higher fat gain means your gaining more muscle as well? Do you, or even the lean bulk crew think your body builds muscle that drastically different at different % ? I think no, which is why the lean bulkers are arguing for trying to stay leaner, because muscle will be built as fast as possible in a reasonable surplus, no greater no less than an even bigger surplus.

I went off on a tangent a little, but how do you personally know IT is ready to gain muscle? If people could literally tell when there body was primed for muscle growth, I dont think most people would ignore it to lean out. But I dont understand how you know. Feel extra hungry, recent strength increase, lookin’ sexy in the mirror, scale weight hasn’t budged lately so you’re “due”, gut instinct??

Not trying to just shoot you down or something, genuinely curious as to how you come to the conclusion your body is about to blossom with muscle so it needs all the food it can get.[/quote]

During a deload after a properly planned training cycle, Your body is most definately primed for growth, assuming you hit new weight or rep PR’s in the peak tonnage week. During the deload week I always eat way more and it doesn’t go on as fat.[/quote]

I understand the general concept of a deload week and upping the volume right before for supercompensation. Still waiting for Xs response because he has said he pretty much trains by instinct and what feels right at that moment. So unless he instinctually increases volume, weight etc for the purpose of “over reaching”, so that he can deload and reap the benefits, then we still need an answer to how he knows IT is ready.

285

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
Question for X

How do you know when your body is “ready to grow”?

One of your more common responses to the lean bulk crew is something along the lines of “why would I worry about cutting, when my body is primed for growth?” And you frequently speak as if the only way to gain REAL MASS (what you fancy yourself to have), is to just keep pushing, other wise you will limit your potential. Why do you think disregarding higher fat gain, or accepting higher fat gain means your gaining more muscle as well? Do you, or even the lean bulk crew think your body builds muscle that drastically different at different % ? I think no, which is why the lean bulkers are arguing for trying to stay leaner, because muscle will be built as fast as possible in a reasonable surplus, no greater no less than an even bigger surplus.

I went off on a tangent a little, but how do you personally know IT is ready to gain muscle? If people could literally tell when there body was primed for muscle growth, I dont think most people would ignore it to lean out. But I dont understand how you know. Feel extra hungry, recent strength increase, lookin’ sexy in the mirror, scale weight hasn’t budged lately so you’re “due”, gut instinct??

Not trying to just shoot you down or something, genuinely curious as to how you come to the conclusion your body is about to blossom with muscle so it needs all the food it can get.[/quote]

During a deload after a properly planned training cycle, Your body is most definately primed for growth, assuming you hit new weight or rep PR’s in the peak tonnage week. During the deload week I always eat way more and it doesn’t go on as fat.[/quote]

I understand the general concept of a deload week and upping the volume right before for supercompensation. Still waiting for Xs response because he has said he pretty much trains by instinct and what feels right at that moment. So unless he instinctually increases volume, weight etc for the purpose of “over reaching”, so that he can deload and reap the benefits, then we still need an answer to how he knows IT is ready.
[/quote]

My body is ready whenever it is ready. This is a biological orchestra waging war all day long in an effort to keep homeostasis.

That anabolic optimal response in supercompensation is based on so many variables that you can not predict with any known means excluding extreme body responses like “gains after being in a deficit”. That is why I focused on making sure it was fed so when IT was ready to grow, it had the resources to do it.

You have never in the entire time I have written on this forum seen me write that I know when my body is ready to grow ahead of time.

You see what your body gives you and you base response on that reaction. That is how you make the most progress.

286

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
Question for X

How do you know when your body is “ready to grow”?

One of your more common responses to the lean bulk crew is something along the lines of “why would I worry about cutting, when my body is primed for growth?” And you frequently speak as if the only way to gain REAL MASS (what you fancy yourself to have), is to just keep pushing, other wise you will limit your potential. Why do you think disregarding higher fat gain, or accepting higher fat gain means your gaining more muscle as well? Do you, or even the lean bulk crew think your body builds muscle that drastically different at different % ? I think no, which is why the lean bulkers are arguing for trying to stay leaner, because muscle will be built as fast as possible in a reasonable surplus, no greater no less than an even bigger surplus.

I went off on a tangent a little, but how do you personally know IT is ready to gain muscle? If people could literally tell when there body was primed for muscle growth, I dont think most people would ignore it to lean out. But I dont understand how you know. Feel extra hungry, recent strength increase, lookin’ sexy in the mirror, scale weight hasn’t budged lately so you’re “due”, gut instinct??

Not trying to just shoot you down or something, genuinely curious as to how you come to the conclusion your body is about to blossom with muscle so it needs all the food it can get.[/quote]

During a deload after a properly planned training cycle, Your body is most definately primed for growth, assuming you hit new weight or rep PR’s in the peak tonnage week. During the deload week I always eat way more and it doesn’t go on as fat.[/quote]

I understand the general concept of a deload week and upping the volume right before for supercompensation. Still waiting for Xs response because he has said he pretty much trains by instinct and what feels right at that moment. So unless he instinctually increases volume, weight etc for the purpose of “over reaching”, so that he can deload and reap the benefits, then we still need an answer to how he knows IT is ready.
[/quote]

My body is ready whenever it is ready. This is a biological orchestra waging war all day long in an effort to keep homeostasis.

That anabolic optimal response in supercompensation is based on so many variables that you can not predict with any known means excluding extreme body responses like “gains after being in a deficit”. That is why I focused on making sure it was fed so when IT was ready to grow, it had the resources to do it.

You have never in the entire time I have written on this forum seen me write that I know when my body is ready to grow ahead of time.

You see what your body gives you and you base response on that reaction. That is how you make the most progress.[/quote]

True, you have never said, “i know when it is ready”. But you seem to imply it by saying things like, if my body is ready to grow, why on earth would I cut?

Maybe in your pursuit to be the biggest guy in the room at all costs, you are simply talking of it as a concept? Always be in a surplus, and when your body is ready to grow, it will be able to? Seeing as the body doesn’t grow linearly, its safe to say you will always be laying down fat to some extent, and not always muscle.

And I think this is the main argument from the lean(er) bulk crowd. Keep a closer watch on your calories because it is easier to build fat than muscle. Force feeding is likely to result in more fat, not necessarily more muscle. But obviously what you did worked for you.

287

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:

True, you have never said, “i know when it is ready”. But you seem to imply it by saying things like, if my body is ready to grow, why on earth would I cut?
[/quote]

…and you don’t understand this to mean that if my body is showing me a growth response that short circuiting that to lose weight would hold back progress?

It seems many of you would do better with what I write…if you stop trying to find out what I am IMPLYING and just stuck to what I actually wrote.

[quote]

Maybe in your pursuit to be the biggest guy in the room at all costs,[/quote]

I’m sorry, but what is this? All costs?

Once again, stick to what is written. You will do better.

[quote]

And I think this is the main argument from the lean(er) bulk crowd. Keep a closer watch on your calories because it is easier to build fat than muscle. Force feeding is likely to result in more fat, not necessarily more muscle. But obviously what you did worked for you. [/quote]

No one said “force feeding”. I have listed out the benefits over there different threads and you still won’t even acknowledge it.

No discussion can take place with guys like you acting like this.

288

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
Question for X

How do you know when your body is “ready to grow”?

One of your more common responses to the lean bulk crew is something along the lines of “why would I worry about cutting, when my body is primed for growth?” And you frequently speak as if the only way to gain REAL MASS (what you fancy yourself to have), is to just keep pushing, other wise you will limit your potential. Why do you think disregarding higher fat gain, or accepting higher fat gain means your gaining more muscle as well? Do you, or even the lean bulk crew think your body builds muscle that drastically different at different % ? I think no, which is why the lean bulkers are arguing for trying to stay leaner, because muscle will be built as fast as possible in a reasonable surplus, no greater no less than an even bigger surplus.

I went off on a tangent a little, but how do you personally know IT is ready to gain muscle? If people could literally tell when there body was primed for muscle growth, I dont think most people would ignore it to lean out. But I dont understand how you know. Feel extra hungry, recent strength increase, lookin’ sexy in the mirror, scale weight hasn’t budged lately so you’re “due”, gut instinct??

Not trying to just shoot you down or something, genuinely curious as to how you come to the conclusion your body is about to blossom with muscle so it needs all the food it can get.[/quote]

During a deload after a properly planned training cycle, Your body is most definately primed for growth, assuming you hit new weight or rep PR’s in the peak tonnage week. During the deload week I always eat way more and it doesn’t go on as fat.[/quote]

I understand the general concept of a deload week and upping the volume right before for supercompensation. Still waiting for Xs response because he has said he pretty much trains by instinct and what feels right at that moment. So unless he instinctually increases volume, weight etc for the purpose of “over reaching”, so that he can deload and reap the benefits, then we still need an answer to how he knows IT is ready.
[/quote]

My body is ready whenever it is ready. This is a biological orchestra waging war all day long in an effort to keep homeostasis.

That anabolic optimal response in supercompensation is based on so many variables that you can not predict with any known means excluding extreme body responses like “gains after being in a deficit”. That is why I focused on making sure it was fed so when IT was ready to grow, it had the resources to do it.

You have never in the entire time I have written on this forum seen me write that I know when my body is ready to grow ahead of time.

You see what your body gives you and you base response on that reaction. That is how you make the most progress.[/quote]

Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?

What if the body isn’t primed for growth but you keep feeding it? Being growth is is painfully slow in naturals after the first three years, won’t this lead to a lot of fat gain, always overfeeding when there won’t be much muscle growth?

289

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My body is ready whenever it is ready. This is a biological orchestra waging war all day long in an effort to keep homeostasis.

That anabolic optimal response in supercompensation is based on so many variables that you can not predict with any known means excluding extreme body responses like “gains after being in a deficit”. That is why I focused on making sure it was fed so when IT was ready to grow, it had the resources to do it.

You have never in the entire time I have written on this forum seen me write that I know when my body is ready to grow ahead of time.

You see what your body gives you and you base response on that reaction. That is how you make the most progress.[/quote]

Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?

What if the body isn’t primed for growth but you keep feeding it? Being growth is is painfully slow in naturals after the first three years, won’t this lead to a lot of fat gain, always overfeeding when there won’t be much muscle growth?
[/quote]

Stepping into theoretical-land here a bit, but does the body actually provide any clear signals? Appetite seems to be about as accurate as a body fat monitor… it can point out a trend, but isn’t particularly accurate on its own.

Also, can you train your body to provide clearer signals?

290

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My body is ready whenever it is ready. This is a biological orchestra waging war all day long in an effort to keep homeostasis.

That anabolic optimal response in supercompensation is based on so many variables that you can not predict with any known means excluding extreme body responses like “gains after being in a deficit”. That is why I focused on making sure it was fed so when IT was ready to grow, it had the resources to do it.

You have never in the entire time I have written on this forum seen me write that I know when my body is ready to grow ahead of time.

You see what your body gives you and you base response on that reaction. That is how you make the most progress.[/quote]

Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?

What if the body isn’t primed for growth but you keep feeding it? Being growth is is painfully slow in naturals after the first three years, won’t this lead to a lot of fat gain, always overfeeding when there won’t be much muscle growth?
[/quote]

Stepping into theoretical-land here a bit, but does the body actually provide any clear signals? Appetite seems to be about as accurate as a body fat monitor… it can point out a trend, but isn’t particularly accurate on its own.

Also, can you train your body to provide clearer signals?[/quote]

No, you can’t, which is why I’m interested in an answer. What you can do is train and increase calories and make appropriate future adjustments depending on what’s happening. There are no signals.

291

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:

True, you have never said, “i know when it is ready”. But you seem to imply it by saying things like, if my body is ready to grow, why on earth would I cut?
[/quote]

…and you don’t understand this to mean that if my body is showing me a growth response that short circuiting that to lose weight would hold back progress?

It seems many of you would do better with what I write…if you stop trying to find out what I am IMPLYING and just stuck to what I actually wrote.

[quote]

Maybe in your pursuit to be the biggest guy in the room at all costs,[/quote]

I’m sorry, but what is this? All costs?

Once again, stick to what is written. You will do better.

[quote]

And I think this is the main argument from the lean(er) bulk crowd. Keep a closer watch on your calories because it is easier to build fat than muscle. Force feeding is likely to result in more fat, not necessarily more muscle. But obviously what you did worked for you. [/quote]

No one said “force feeding”. I have listed out the benefits over there different threads and you still won’t even acknowledge it.

No discussion can take place with guys like you acting like this.[/quote]

I am sticking to what you wrote. I was asking for clarification on what you said because it is vague.

I’m not imagining anything into what you write, when this is what you write:
“…and you don’t understand this to mean that if my body is showing me a growth response that short circuiting that to lose weight would hold back progress”

What do you mean by “showing me a growth response”? Scale is moving up, you think you are looking a little bigger? My reading comprehension is just fine. So long story short, you do not KNOW whether you will be having a “growth response” or not, so if you feel uncomfortable with your current fat level, cut til your happy again and do not fear you just cut yourself short.

292

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?[/quote]

better pumps
big increases in strength after periods of leveling off
even feelings of well being meaning “mind set”

Then during those periods some fat would be gained so paying attention to what is being gained allows you to adjust food intake.

Conjecture. This is not fact. This is simply your opinion supported by what you want to believe. The truth is the stage at which someone would level off would be pure genetic and personal…not specifically age related.

[quote] won’t this lead to a lot of fat gain, always overfeeding when there won’t be much muscle growth?
[/quote]

That is why you pay attention to what is being gained through strength increases, the mirror and the opinion of trained people you trust.

Anymore questions?

293

If I’m following a strict “macro based diet” that my coach prescribed (based on the best available methods/calculations for my body size and composition) because I want to grow quickly, and I’m not hungry enough everyday to eat the meals, do I just not eat them?

294

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?[/quote]

better pumps
big increases in strength after periods of leveling off
even feelings of well being meaning “mind set”

Then during those periods some fat would be gained so paying attention to what is being gained allows you to adjust food intake.

Conjecture. This is not fact. This is simply your opinion supported by what you want to believe. The truth is the stage at which someone would level off would be pure genetic and personal…not specifically age related.

[quote] won’t this lead to a lot of fat gain, always overfeeding when there won’t be much muscle growth?
[/quote]

That is why you pay attention to what is being gained through strength increases, the mirror and the opinion of trained people you trust.

Anymore questions?[/quote]

Yeah: Which pro athlete are you related to?

295

[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
What do you mean by “showing me a growth response”? [/quote]

Growth in muscle mass, strength, look?

Really, dude?

This isn’t what I wrote at all.

296

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah: Which pro athlete are you related to?
[/quote]

I would rather ask you why you think all naturals have “painfully slow growth” after only three years.

297

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?[/quote]

better pumps
big increases in strength after periods of leveling off
even feelings of well being meaning “mind set”[/quote]

Have these relationships been studied, or is this just conjecture?

298

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah: Which pro athlete are you related to?
[/quote]

I would rather ask you why you think all naturals have “painfully slow growth” after only three years.[/quote]

A combination of:

  1. following bodybuilding for 18 years
  2. reading bodybuilding literature for the same time frame
  3. conversing with pretty good naturals
  4. reading the works of people who’ve really did their homework on muscle gain potential.

I know you don’t like any of the above, but that’s my answer.

299

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah, but what hints do you get that it is ready?[/quote]

better pumps
big increases in strength after periods of leveling off
even feelings of well being meaning “mind set”[/quote]

Have these relationships been studied, or is this just conjecture?[/quote]

Conjecture, because you can often experience that with no muscle growth occurring. I highly doubt Mr. Pump himself, John Meadows, significant muscle growth at this point.

300

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
If I’m following a strict “macro based diet” that my coach prescribed (based on the best available methods/calculations for my body size and composition) because I want to grow quickly, and I’m not hungry enough everyday to eat the meals, do I just not eat them?[/quote]
Why wouldn’t you? I find it hard to believe that all the people that got big were hungry all the time. Personally I’m never hungry (then again i’m still a skinny bitch so probably not a good example, lol).