I posted one of these awhile ago in the BSL forum hoping it would give some insite and guidance to beginners.
Said persons stats
5’10
140lb
Skinny fat
No real physical activity before now
Goals are to compete in a few shows nothing major but let’s just say said person plans to remain natty for the forseeable future…
How would you have them set out there training and diet for there first 3 or so years. So if you basically had someone wanting to be coached how would progress them from a rank beginner to intermediate bodybuilder?
pick a program thats related to bodybuilding
ex. john meadows, do this instead of that stupid one (paraphrase), etc
focus on feeling the flex in the movement and the pump
include cardio or some type of activity a couple of times a week at least
eat a balanced diet that has your body weight to twice your body weight in grams of protein per pound.
cut out junk food and as much fast food as possible.
watch the mirror, not the scale and if your start looking like your getting too much fat gain just cut down your cals.
its not complicated
and honestly the bed thing is semi serious. tons of people don’t have that dedication to do that, let alone this. Bodybuilding for most shouldn’t be that hard to be dedicated to
My method would be, full body for a while, 5 sets of 5 squats, deadlift, bench, military press. I’d do 2 of each per day squats/bench on one then the next would be deadlift/military
pull ups, rows, front squats for sets of 6-10. Pull ups and rows if you did squats, front squats if you did deadlifts.
afew isolation exercises for 10-15 reps curls, shrugs, lateral raises, rear delts, leg press (not isolation i know but id keep higher reps), leg curls/extensions, flys. do them all atleast once a week.
500 calorie surplus with plenty of protein, do that for afew months and then see where you are at.
I’d have them join a PL club and work at that for at least 2 yrs. And teach them how to eat protein rich foods like there’s no tomorrow. Teach them that while supps can be very useful, they are just that: Supps.
All the while trying to work on teaching them “myths” that aren’t really myths, but really rather useful techniques. Such as muscle contact.
-Starting Strength for a couple of months (oh shit! Did he really just say that?)
-Then 5/3/1 for as long as they can handle before getting bored
-Then do everything John Meadows says
EDIT: and when they start doing the Meadows thing, hire Shelby for their diet
[quote]Yogi wrote:
-Starting Strength for a couple of months (oh shit! Did he really just say that?)
-Then 5/3/1 for as long as they can handle before getting bored
-Then do everything John Meadows says
EDIT: and when they start doing the Meadows thing, hire Shelby for their diet[/quote]
[quote]JFG wrote:
Do your bed every morning for 2 weeks. Take a picture and send it to me every morning.
[/quote]
I read an interview years ago, where the coach said step 1 was to floss your teeth 2x/day for 2 weeks. The rationale was that if you don’t have the discipline to do that, you don’t have what it takes… he then went on a 3 paragraph tirade about how it’s associated with cardiovascular health and all that entails.
It wasn’t mentioned, but how old is this hypothetical beginner? From a little reading, it seems that a handful of natural bodybuilders around that height are in the ballpark of a lean 170ish-180ish near contest-time.
So mid-to-long-term goal, the guy who’s starting at 140 is looking at putting on a pretty good amount of size to be competitive. If he’s 19 years old, that’s one thing. If he’s 36, it’s another.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
-Starting Strength for a couple of months (oh shit! Did he really just say that?)
-Then 5/3/1 for as long as they can handle before getting bored
-Then do everything John Meadows says[/quote]
Training-wise, I could get behind something like this, as long as the Stating Strength is done by the book, with power cleans. (So many people want to ditch those.)
Though I’d suggest adding a period before Mountain Dog stuff, even for just a few months, of “traditional” bodybuilding to build a base of that style of training (approaching muscular failure, more familiarity with a variety of exercises, etc.) 3-5 days a week with some kind of bodypart split, majority of sets done in the 8-12 rep range.
Diet-wise, I’d focus on the consistent basics from day one. Three meals a day, a shake when you lift, quality protein with each meal. Be sure not to develop a fear of carbs or fats or fruits or vegetables. I wouldn’t play with low carb diets or even really carb cycling until a basic foundation of strength and size is laid. Save that for when dropping fat becomes more of a priority.
Since they’re starting off “skinny fat” but underweight, consistent lifting and smart eating should start sorting them out without the need for a ton of cardio.
Always the pedant, Colucci. There’s a Mountaindog for BEGINNERS, you know. I mean seriously, who do you think you are???
I am, of course, just kidding. Couldn’t agree more with what you’re saying. In terms of routine maybe something like Max-OT (I don’t actually like that routine at all but other people seem to) would be a good choice to go between 5/3/1 and Meadows’ stuff.
I definitely wish I’d gotten myself on an established routine when I first started lifting. So many wasted years…
[quote]Yogi wrote:
oh wait, there is actually something I disagree with you about: I’d do rows instead of power cleans for the SS portion.
While I like cleans as part of SS, I think for this particular situation the rows are a better choice.[/quote]
::teardrop::
Like I said, that exercise swap is pretty common, but I still don’t believe it’s necessary or extra-effective. I thought this particular situation - a beginner using Starting Strength as his first intro to organized lifting - will only be for a few months anyhow. At this point, he’s not a beginner bodybuilder, he’s simply a beginner.
I totally understand that cleans aren’t popular nowadays, but they’re undeniably useful and serve a very specific role in that program and a general role in building a strength/size foundation overall.
"I think rows are in a lot of these spin-offs of my program because people need another exercise off the floor besides deadlifts, but everybody’s afraid to learn the clean. I don’t really understand it, except that, in people’s minds, rows are easier to learn. They look slow, they don’t look as complicated.
I think I did a decent job of explaining the clean in the book, and I think it’s a much better exercise than the barbell row. Because it can’t be done slowly. That’s why we use it. It’s an explosive lift." - Rippetoe.
I personally love cleans. My thinking behind the rows as a substitute thought was that if it’s bodybuilding training he’s going to be specialising in, the chances of him keeping cleans in his arsenal are pretty small.
I have seen 1 person ever doing cleans in a gym except for me, and I’ve never seen anyone perform a snatch.
As a slight aside, every now and then I like to have “olympic fun day” where I’ll just get in the gym and mess about with Olympic variations. Maybe a work up to a heavy 5 on cleans, followed by some sort of barbell complex.
It’s nice to get out of your comfort zone every now and then, I think. Scares the management too.
[quote]Yogi wrote:
My thinking behind the rows as a substitute thought was that if it’s bodybuilding training he’s going to be specialising in, the chances of him keeping cleans in his arsenal are pretty small.[/quote]
I get what you’re saying, although if he chooses to ditch cleans, it’s pretty much his loss. This is one issue/confusion a lot of people have with the Starting Strength program. Like I mentioned, it’s intended to deal with the lifter as a beginner, period, instead of concern about being a “beginner bodybuilder.”
A sorta-similar argument could be made regarding direct arm work or more for shoulders. Would adding some curls, extensions, or laterals be the worst thing in the world? Not really. But then you’re taking more and more (albeit tiny) steps away from the program’s original intention.
(Not to hijack, but I recently wrote up a closer look at the pros and cons of Starting Strength for an article. Hopefully it should be up soon.)
I knew my current gym was something special when, soon after joining, I saw two guys squat cleaning 245 for easy reps. And it goes along with Colucci Training Philosophy #8: The less you blend into the “average” gym crowd, the better.
