I agree with Irish, if its not your fight then move on!
This is a good thread.
Only read the OP, no time to read the rest right now.
This should be a sticky, this stuff is vital to think about for everyone, especially people training in a combat sport.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hardcoreraymond wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Muggers and other scum bags don’t want to fight. It’s not about honor. It’s about finding an easy mark.
Alert guys with big muscles are not easy marks.
Absolutely…
oh gimme a break, a guy with a gun isnt going to care if you have a 54 inch chest and bulging biceps.
That’s not true. They want a person who’s not going to put up a fight, and doesn’t look they could. They’re their for money- they certainly don’t want to get fucked up after thinking that they had the deck stacked in their favor.[/quote]
So true. Even if a mugger has a gun, the last thing he wants to do is pull the trigger. He wants someone to hand over enough money for him to buy a bottle or a vial or whatever he needs.
A predator looks for the weakest possible prey.
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
hardcoreraymond wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Muggers and other scum bags don’t want to fight. It’s not about honor. It’s about finding an easy mark.
Alert guys with big muscles are not easy marks.
Absolutely…
oh gimme a break, a guy with a gun isnt going to care if you have a 54 inch chest and bulging biceps.
That’s not true. They want a person who’s not going to put up a fight, and doesn’t look they could. They’re their for money- they certainly don’t want to get fucked up after thinking that they had the deck stacked in their favor.
Agreed, which sometimes causes me concern. I look and sound like Little Bo Peep, which is why my school likes to use me for self-defense demonstrations: I look like you could take me without even trying.
I try to counteract this by walking with confidence, head up, looking people in the eye, but lets face it that’ll only take you so far. Scary. Realizing this tends to make me hyper-aware of my surroundings when I’m out in public, especially if I’m alone.[/quote]
Funny thing is, even though I am 6’4" and pretty athletic looking, most of the time, between training sessions I am so jacked up from training that if someone wanted to take me out, all they would have to do is gently push me over.
I don’t totally disagree with you, though I do have to pull you up on one thing
[quote]Mzungu wrote:
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.
[/quote]
Firstly, why does he have mates and me no? Why is there this myth that BJJ guys wander the earth solo like something out of a dodgy 80s saturday evening tv show. When I go out, typically I am with 5 or 6 trained fighters. Why would they not step in if I was on the ground taking a shoeing?
Secondly, whilst taking the fight down will not be my first choice, if we end up on the ground then my BJJ will put me in a great position to ensure that I am on top and able to finish the fight or stand up quickly and easily and start soccer kicking and stomping.
OK so…
[quote]One Sexy Korean wrote:
Anyway, on topic. Real violence is definitely not anything like in the movies. And that’s exactly how I fight. Granted, I haven’t fought in a long time (back in Bossier City, LA, I used to do underground martial arts) because I usually try my best these days to avoid it.
[/quote]
and
[quote]And truthfully, I’ll go ahead and say until I’m 21 (concealed gun license) , I’ll always have a legal limit hunting knife on me or in my car, just in case things do get out of hand.
[/quote]
[/quote]
So you are not even 21 yet. But you were doing Underground Martial Arts back in the day.
So, what do you mean by ‘underground martial arts?’ The first UFC happened when you were 4 at the oldest so what exactly are we talking here? Two toddlers enter the romper room, only one leaves?
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I don’t totally disagree with you, though I do have to pull you up on one thing
Mzungu wrote:
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.
Firstly, why does he have mates and me no? Why is there this myth that BJJ guys wander the earth solo like something out of a dodgy 80s saturday evening tv show. When I go out, typically I am with 5 or 6 trained fighters. Why would they not step in if I was on the ground taking a shoeing?
Secondly, whilst taking the fight down will not be my first choice, if we end up on the ground then my BJJ will put me in a great position to ensure that I am on top and able to finish the fight or stand up quickly and easily and start soccer kicking and stomping.
[/quote]
Good point, well made.
When I was on the doors, I would usually be on my own for 30 seconds - 1 minute at the start of anything, so my avoidance of the floor is down to that.
The only thing to add really is that if this happens, remember that there are going to be no rules involved in this. Your not in a weight class anymore, and there are no rules about what can happen. Biting, gouging, Grabing your balls etc are all fair game.
I’ve done a bit of interesting work with Police officers, to show them how out of control things can get. My old friend who I quoted above uses me as his crash test dummy.
Although i’m an out of shape 34 year old. I weigh 260, and am reasonably strong, and even in a controlled situation I can cause all sorts of problems for the instructors. Most of this comes from experience I have from fighting on the doors, and secondly from all the rugby i’ve played over the years (an underestimated martial art i’ve always thought 
Some of you will probably scoff at that last statement, but I’m sure the same thing would apply to American footballers aswell. You get used to taking impacts, and getting hold of people and throwing them around in a way that I never even experienced doing judo or boxing, and it has that same chaotic, violence to it that street fights do at times.
[quote]Mzungu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
I don’t totally disagree with you, though I do have to pull you up on one thing
Mzungu wrote:
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.
Firstly, why does he have mates and me no? Why is there this myth that BJJ guys wander the earth solo like something out of a dodgy 80s saturday evening tv show. When I go out, typically I am with 5 or 6 trained fighters. Why would they not step in if I was on the ground taking a shoeing?
Secondly, whilst taking the fight down will not be my first choice, if we end up on the ground then my BJJ will put me in a great position to ensure that I am on top and able to finish the fight or stand up quickly and easily and start soccer kicking and stomping.
Good point, well made.
When I was on the doors, I would usually be on my own for 30 seconds - 1 minute at the start of anything, so my avoidance of the floor is down to that.
The only thing to add really is that if this happens, remember that there are going to be no rules involved in this. Your not in a weight class anymore, and there are no rules about what can happen. Biting, gouging, Grabing your balls etc are all fair game.
I’ve done a bit of interesting work with Police officers, to show them how out of control things can get. My old friend who I quoted above uses me as his crash test dummy.
Although i’m an out of shape 34 year old. I weigh 260, and am reasonably strong, and even in a controlled situation I can cause all sorts of problems for the instructors. Most of this comes from experience I have from fighting on the doors, and secondly from all the rugby i’ve played over the years (an underestimated martial art i’ve always thought
Some of you will probably scoff at that last statement, but I’m sure the same thing would apply to American footballers aswell. You get used to taking impacts, and getting hold of people and throwing them around in a way that I never even experienced doing judo or boxing, and it has that same chaotic, violence to it that street fights do at times.
[/quote]
I fully agree with Rugby being far closer to a street fight than most martial arts could ever hope for.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Mzungu wrote:
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.
Firstly, why does he have mates and me no? Why is there this myth that BJJ guys wander the earth solo like something out of a dodgy 80s saturday evening tv show. When I go out, typically I am with 5 or 6 trained fighters. Why would they not step in if I was on the ground taking a shoeing?
[/quote]
Hahaha that’s a fair point. However, I don’t like relying on having numbers to win a fight.
I was involved in one brawl when I was 19 that was as close to “Braveheart” as I’ve seen in real life, and let me tell you- those seconds waiting for the cavalry to roll in are long seconds indeed.
Not to mention, when you don’t roll with trained fighters, you have to taken the number of people you’re there with and split in half. That’s the number that will talk shit to another group. Take that number and take one quarter of those, and that’s the number that are probably reliable to actually do something in a fight.
Those ain’t odds I like.
I’m not saying that you wouldn’t have the ability- of course you do. What I wonder about most BJJ guys is whether or not they’d have the inclination to.
You’re better than me on the ground if you know BJJ, no question. However, are you so comfortable on the ground that you’re going to stay there? Think about it- if you spend most of your time rolling, as most BJJ would, and don’t spend time getting up and kicking, or getting up and running, what makes you think that you’d do it in a fight?
As soon as you’re put into a situation that’s anything like your training, my guess is that’s what you’re going to revert back to. That might include pulling guard, or going for some kind of submission hold, in a place where it’s wholly inappropriate. You might not think about it, but cement is not like the mats.
On top of that, just going to the ground in general on cement if fucking painful; it can be lethal if you don’t tuck your chin (and will certainly KO you). That thing that I talked about a couple months ago where I watched the bouncers at a bar toss a guy, and watched him land flat on the back of his head, splitting it open and knocking him out- that can happen all to easy. Besides that, you better hope you don’t land up against a curb, because then all I might have to do is push or rake your face against it- which can cause excruciating pain. Forget it if it’s cold out.
Hence why it’s my last place to go.
I’m going to save this and repost it everytime the issue comes up.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I fully agree with Rugby being far closer to a street fight than most martial arts could ever hope for.[/quote]
And I’ve seen that shit on ESPN2 and all, you motherfuckers are crazy for playing that ridiculous game.
I’d give it to you there. Looks like it’s brutal
Oh, and one more thing- have you ever tried to take down someone when you’re NOT in the ring or enclosed area?
Enclosed areas tend to be loaded with other shit- a bar is packed with tables and stools, stores are packed with crap, a busy parking lot is packed with cars… not exactly the best spot to get on the ground.
On the other hand, if it’s in the middle of the street (i.e. outside a strip club in Newark, where one of my more ridiculous stories went down), good luck trying to get close to someone to bring them down if they don’t want to. Not impossible, but very difficult.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh, and one more thing- have you ever tried to take down someone when you’re NOT in the ring or enclosed area?
Enclosed areas tend to be loaded with other shit- a bar is packed with tables and stools, stores are packed with crap, a busy parking lot is packed with cars… not exactly the best spot to get on the ground.
On the other hand, if it’s in the middle of the street (i.e. outside a strip club in Newark, where one of my more ridiculous stories went down), good luck trying to get close to someone to bring them down if they don’t want to. Not impossible, but very difficult. [/quote]
Good luck staying on your feet in a crowded bar with stools and tables all over the place. Especially if there is some booze in your system.
From your earlier point, as we train MMA as well as BJJ we specifically do train to get up from underneath someone. Also, we train to try and land on top when you fall. If an untrained person tackles me, they are going to get rolled over and land on the bottom.
All of the above said though, I fully agree with you. I don’t want to go to the ground in a crowded place. I certainly don’t want to look for a takedown in a crowded place. I’ve seen trained fighters KO themselves on the mat or ring going for a double leg. Try that shit on a hard floor and it’s no fun at all. That is why if there is any chance at all of avoiding a fight, I am taking that chance.
I don’t care if someone wants to call me a pussy or whatever. You want to fight me, we do it in a ring or a cage. The only exception to this is if I or someone important to me are in physical danger.
I have a real hard time explaining this to the macho guys here in Mexico but someone can be standing in front of me telling me screaming that my mother is a whore and my wife a slut, it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.
Me swinging at them doesn’t prove that they are wrong. It might however deprive my mother of her son, my wife of her husband and my daughter of her father either through me getting killed or me doing jail time.
I need a fuckin’ gun…
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
I need a fuckin’ gun…[/quote]
X2
common sense/awareness > gun…98% of the time. People rely too much on the mental “safety net” of having a gun. Just my opinion…and experience.
What a bunch of morons. Wow, there are idiots and scumbags in the military. No shit. There are idiots and scumbags everywhere. Some have posted on this thread. People join the military for their own agenda. People base 99% of their decisions on their own agenda. 17 year olds who don’t shower and flush. I’m sure that’s only the ones who join the military.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I don’t totally disagree with you, though I do have to pull you up on one thing
Mzungu wrote:
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.
Firstly, why does he have mates and me no? Why is there this myth that BJJ guys wander the earth solo like something out of a dodgy 80s saturday evening tv show. When I go out, typically I am with 5 or 6 trained fighters. Why would they not step in if I was on the ground taking a shoeing?
Secondly, whilst taking the fight down will not be my first choice, if we end up on the ground then my BJJ will put me in a great position to ensure that I am on top and able to finish the fight or stand up quickly and easily and start soccer kicking and stomping.
[/quote]
Yeah but the difference is when you guys go out it’s usually to a samuri circle jerk so there’s not much chance of a problem!
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh, and one more thing- have you ever tried to take down someone when you’re NOT in the ring or enclosed area?
Enclosed areas tend to be loaded with other shit- a bar is packed with tables and stools, stores are packed with crap, a busy parking lot is packed with cars… not exactly the best spot to get on the ground.
On the other hand, if it’s in the middle of the street (i.e. outside a strip club in Newark, where one of my more ridiculous stories went down), good luck trying to get close to someone to bring them down if they don’t want to. Not impossible, but very difficult.
Good luck staying on your feet in a crowded bar with stools and tables all over the place. Especially if there is some booze in your system.
From your earlier point, as we train MMA as well as BJJ we specifically do train to get up from underneath someone. Also, we train to try and land on top when you fall. If an untrained person tackles me, they are going to get rolled over and land on the bottom.
All of the above said though, I fully agree with you. I don’t want to go to the ground in a crowded place. I certainly don’t want to look for a takedown in a crowded place. I’ve seen trained fighters KO themselves on the mat or ring going for a double leg. Try that shit on a hard floor and it’s no fun at all. That is why if there is any chance at all of avoiding a fight, I am taking that chance.
I don’t care if someone wants to call me a pussy or whatever. You want to fight me, we do it in a ring or a cage. The only exception to this is if I or someone important to me are in physical danger.
I have a real hard time explaining this to the macho guys here in Mexico but someone can be standing in front of me telling me screaming that my mother is a whore and my wife a slut, it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.
Me swinging at them doesn’t prove that they are wrong. It might however deprive my mother of her son, my wife of her husband and my daughter of her father either through me getting killed or me doing jail time.[/quote]
That’s the problem with you MMGAY guys. You’re not crazy enough to survive the streets if you were really in them. You’ll never see it coming. You’ll be a victim.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
common sense/awareness > gun…98% of the time. People rely too much on the mental “safety net” of having a gun. Just my opinion…and experience.[/quote]
A gun is like a knife- just a tool. A great tool, of course, but holding a $40 hammer doesn’t make you a carpenter.