How Real Violence Happens

Training
41

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
snipeout wrote: Knocking those that served regardless of their job isn’t cool. Selfless service for ones country in a time of war isn’t easy.

Selfless? Most who enlist have no other future. The Army is their only way out.

Nope never been to Iraq, just Kosovo and Bosnia. Can’t imagine how fucked up Iraq or Afghanistan is, I’m sure you can’t either.

I sure can. Given that I actually served and had many friends over there. I was just smart enough to get out before I could be made a play thing for Bush and Cheney. [/quote]

This is politics. Go bring it somewhere else. You’re trolling here, and there’s no reason for it.

42

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
snipeout wrote: Knocking those that served regardless of their job isn’t cool. Selfless service for ones country in a time of war isn’t easy.

Selfless? Most who enlist have no other future. The Army is their only way out.

Nope never been to Iraq, just Kosovo and Bosnia. Can’t imagine how fucked up Iraq or Afghanistan is, I’m sure you can’t either.

I sure can. Given that I actually served and had many friends over there. I was just smart enough to get out before I could be made a play thing for Bush and Cheney.

This is politics. Go bring it somewhere else. You’re trolling here, and there’s no reason for it. [/quote]

Take it down a notch Reverend, He’s not trolling, The cop is the one who brought it up looking for credit or a cookie or somthing…

43

[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
snipeout wrote: Knocking those that served regardless of their job isn’t cool. Selfless service for ones country in a time of war isn’t easy.

Selfless? Most who enlist have no other future. The Army is their only way out.

Nope never been to Iraq, just Kosovo and Bosnia. Can’t imagine how fucked up Iraq or Afghanistan is, I’m sure you can’t either.

I sure can. Given that I actually served and had many friends over there. I was just smart enough to get out before I could be made a play thing for Bush and Cheney.

This is politics. Go bring it somewhere else. You’re trolling here, and there’s no reason for it.

Take it down a notch Reverend, He’s not trolling, The cop is the one who brought it up looking for credit or a cookie or somthing…[/quote]

Yea, well the cop is right. I have many friends who are in the wars. Some of them are smart, college educated guys, and the others are not so bright.

Either way, they do the shit that no one else wants to do in order to defend America. You want to debate its merits, go to the politics forum, but the fact is that Orwell was right in saying that “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

Bashing the troops for being unintelligent suckers is not a classy, or truthful, thing to do.

44

[quote]drewh wrote:
How you werent there[/quote]

weren’t where? Just because I don’t run around spouting off about my time in the military doesn’t mean I wasn’t in the army for six years.

Beyond that, while I probably have a better understanding than most, having been in the military and being part of the invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation, anyone who can observe and think rationally would realize there are some fucking idiots in the military who aren’t there out of patriotic service or a desire to protect their countrymen, rather they basically had no other options.

Don’t paint this as if I’m making this generalization for everybody, only pointing out that service in our [U.S.] armed forces does not instantly qualify someone as selfless.

45

[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
snipeout wrote: Knocking those that served regardless of their job isn’t cool. Selfless service for ones country in a time of war isn’t easy.

Selfless? Most who enlist have no other future. The Army is their only way out.

Nope never been to Iraq, just Kosovo and Bosnia. Can’t imagine how fucked up Iraq or Afghanistan is, I’m sure you can’t either.

I sure can. Given that I actually served and had many friends over there. I was just smart enough to get out before I could be made a play thing for Bush and Cheney.

This is politics. Go bring it somewhere else. You’re trolling here, and there’s no reason for it.

Take it down a notch Reverend, He’s not trolling, The cop is the one who brought it up looking for credit or a cookie or somthing…[/quote]

No, you are the one who needs to take it down a notch, please. Irish is right and so is the cop.

This is an excellent thread, Irish. I was just asking one of the cops I train with today what is the most common weapon he’s had to deal with - or deal with the results of -in his job. He said knives, by far, because we all carry one. Even here in Texas where guns are quite easy to get, its still not as easy as walking into your kitchen & getting a knife from the drawer.

And he also said you’re usually cut before you even know he has the knife.

And to the cops and soldiers on this thread, thank you. I don’t care why you signed up, I don’t care if you were at the top or bottom of your class. You dodge bullets so I don’t have to. Thank you.

46

50% of the point of training is being able to see the shit coming. Which was 100% of my post.

47

LOL. Not trolling at all. Someone made a point (which you didn’t call anyone out for).

I went to Basic at 17. I meant the dirtiest, nastiest motherphuckers I’d ever met. Guys who wouldn’t shower. They had to literally be ordered to shower. Guys who would shit and not flush - and there’d only be turds in the toilet - iow, no wiping. People who were borderline retarded, and could barely learn how to do a bunk. I did thousands push-ups because people, after several weeks, were too stupid to memorize their 3 General Orders.

I also have good friends who’ve gone to the service academies who could have gone to Harvard. I myself did OCS, so everyone in my class either had a B.A/B.S. or was close to completing it.

For the most part, people who enlist have an agenda. It might mean getting out of the trailer park or Jersey. It might be a way to pay for college. It might be a way to get ahead in other areas. You think guys at West Point aren’t plotting their political futures? Get out more and travel in more elite circles, lol.

Sure, some do it for patriotism. But look at Pat Tillman. How many other guys left the NFL to join the Army? How many people quit six figure jobs or give up full college scholarships to join?

Some might not like my message. Y’all brought it up, though.

48

LOL. If anyone actually invaded America, I’d be the first one with a gun fighting to the death. I’ve actually stopped violent crimes, because, due to my training, I “saw shit coming.”

Another experience I have is working for a U.S. Senator. If you think the Iraq War is about “defending America,” I’ll just LOL for a while. OK. I’m no longer hysterical.

Fortunes were made and made greater because of that war. Who made more: The guys at Halliburton or the solders actually over there fighting and dying?

That should tell a thinking, rational person all he needs to know about whether the Iraq War was about “defending America.”

49

Being in the military today doesn’t have anything to do with defending America. You are defending certain political agendas and certain corporate interests. For the record I was an officer and have been back from Iraq for about a year. I left due to the above reasons.

50

YAWN

51

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Muggers and other scum bags don’t want to fight. It’s not about honor. It’s about finding an easy mark.

Alert guys with big muscles are not easy marks.

Absolutely…
[/quote]

oh gimme a break, a guy with a gun isnt going to care if you have a 54 inch chest and bulging biceps.

they go after people who look like they have money.

and about firearms being available, its very stupid to think that a guy who’s stickin’ you up lawfully got a pistol permit, and then went on down to Davis’ Sporting Goods and bought himself a gun. Thats just a naive thing to say.

52

I say fuck fighting in the streets, that’s what the cage/gym/ring/mat is for. Thanks again for the insight Irish, kind of brings a person down to earth.

53

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote: Either way, they do the shit that no one else wants to do in order to defend America.

LOL. If anyone actually invaded America, I’d be the first one with a gun fighting to the death. I’ve actually stopped violent crimes, because, due to my training, I “saw shit coming.”

Another experience I have is working for a U.S. Senator. If you think the Iraq War is about “defending America,” I’ll just LOL for a while. OK. I’m no longer hysterical.

Fortunes were made and made greater because of that war. Who made more: The guys at Halliburton or the solders actually over there fighting and dying?

That should tell a thinking, rational person all he needs to know about whether the Iraq War was about “defending America.”[/quote]

Go read my posts on the politics forum- I’m probably the furthest to the left person that posts on this site. I have no illusions about what America is fighting this war over, and I’ve been against it from the start. I know who made fortunes because of this war.

However, I used the term “defend America” because I lacked a better term. And again- I don’t know who started with that, but there’s plenty of threads in the politics forum where you can go at them hard and argue about this bullshit.

54

[quote]hardcoreraymond wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Muggers and other scum bags don’t want to fight. It’s not about honor. It’s about finding an easy mark.

Alert guys with big muscles are not easy marks.

Absolutely…

oh gimme a break, a guy with a gun isnt going to care if you have a 54 inch chest and bulging biceps.

[/quote]

That’s not true. They want a person who’s not going to put up a fight, and doesn’t look they could. They’re their for money- they certainly don’t want to get fucked up after thinking that they had the deck stacked in their favor.

55

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hardcoreraymond wrote:
SkyNett wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Muggers and other scum bags don’t want to fight. It’s not about honor. It’s about finding an easy mark.

Alert guys with big muscles are not easy marks.

Absolutely…

oh gimme a break, a guy with a gun isnt going to care if you have a 54 inch chest and bulging biceps.

That’s not true. They want a person who’s not going to put up a fight, and doesn’t look they could. They’re their for money- they certainly don’t want to get fucked up after thinking that they had the deck stacked in their favor.[/quote]

Agreed, which sometimes causes me concern. I look and sound like Little Bo Peep, which is why my school likes to use me for self-defense demonstrations: I look like you could take me without even trying.

I try to counteract this by walking with confidence, head up, looking people in the eye, but lets face it that’ll only take you so far. Scary. Realizing this tends to make me hyper-aware of my surroundings when I’m out in public, especially if I’m alone.

56

Damn. In the future, I intend to fight people only if they seem really nice. :wink:

57

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Damn. In the future, I intend to fight people only if they seem really nice. ;)[/quote]

haha, those are words to live by

58

Ok, Here are my little bits of experience on this subject.

Many years ago, when I was a uni student, I used to work nightclub doors to make a bit of extra money.

There are a couple of observations I would make about violence in the real world, and please bear in mind that these were the days before MMA got popular, and there were few issues with people carrying knives.

1: On the subject of people not going after the big guys. I’m sorry but that never worked. If some belligerent idiot is looking for trouble, he generally does’nt care what you look like. The interesting thing about where I worked was that we had a lot of big blokes. There was a guy called Rob who last year came 4th in UK’s Strongest man.

People would pick on him all the time. The funny thing is that there was another guy who was 5’6", and probably did’nt even weigh 140lbs. every idiot on earth would go after him. Problem was he was an Army boxing champion who used to moonlight with us. They never knew what hit them.

2: I don’t want to upset people here, but based on my experience, the best street fighters were guys who fought on the streets. They did’nt do Karate or Kickbox or any of that stuff. Most of them had boxed however, at some point in their lives.

And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.

3: I agree with whoever said earlier that you just have to overwhelm your opponent. My philosophy was always to be nice and talk my way out wherever possible. If that fails however, the mantra became: Hit him, Hit him, hit him till he stops moving, and then hit him again just to be sure. If in doubt at any time. Hit Him. I’m still here to tell the tale, some of my friends are’nt.

4: Other than boxers, who can fight, and are seriously good at it. The best advice I ever had was from our head doorman who was an ex Parachute regiment unarmed combat instructor. His favourite words of wisdom were: ‘I’ve been fighting for 26 years son. The first 15 (The martial arts) were a waste of time. If in doubt, think Nose, Eyes, Throat and Groin. Use what ever you’ve got, including your teeth. Put the bastard down, and get the f**k out of there.’

Not really an anti violence message I know, but this all kept me healthy and unhurt for the 3 years I did that type of work.

59

[quote]Mzungu wrote:
Ok, Here are my little bits of experience on this subject.

Many years ago, when I was a uni student, I used to work nightclub doors to make a bit of extra money.

There are a couple of observations I would make about violence in the real world, and please bear in mind that these were the days before MMA got popular, and there were few issues with people carrying knives.

1: On the subject of people not going after the big guys. I’m sorry but that never worked. If some belligerent idiot is looking for trouble, he generally does’nt care what you look like. The interesting thing about where I worked was that we had a lot of big blokes. There was a guy called Rob who last year came 4th in UK’s Strongest man. People would pick on him all the time. The funny thing is that there was another guy who was 5’6", and probably did’nt even weigh 140lbs. every idiot on earth would go after him. Problem was he was an Army boxing champion who used to moonlight with us. They never knew what hit them.

2: I don’t want to upset people here, but based on my experience, the best street fighters were guys who fought on the streets. They did’nt do Karate or Kickbox or any of that stuff. Most of them had boxed however, at some point in their lives.
And just to go off topic a bit. A word of advice from my experience to all you MMA types. For christs sake, if you ever get in a street fight, do not take the guy to the ground, and go there with him. All his mates will kick the crap out of you.

3: I agree with whoever said earlier that you just have to overwhelm your opponent. My philosophy was always to be nice and talk my way out wherever possible. If that fails however, the mantra became: Hit him, Hit him, hit him till he stops moving, and then hit him again just to be sure. If in doubt at any time. Hit Him. I’m still here to tell the tale, some of my friends are’nt.

4: Other than boxers, who can fight, and are seriously good at it. The best advice I ever had was from our head doorman who was an ex Parachute regiment unarmed combat instructor. His favourite words of wisdom were: ‘I’ve been fighting for 26 years son. The first 15 (The martial arts) were a waste of time. If in doubt, think Nose, Eyes, Throat and Groin. Use what ever you’ve got, including your teeth. Put the bastard down, and get the f**k out of there.’

Not really an anti violence message I know, but this all kept me healthy and unhurt for the 3 years I did that type of work.[/quote]

Good post. In my experience at krav, when we have students coming in from traditional Asian martial arts, as I did, they struggle (as I do). But the boxers who come in always have their shit together, they strike hard and fast & have good footwork.

Ha, side note, last week we had a female professional boxer come take a class, a really tall & muscular woman, but beautiful. When it came time to pick different partners for fatigue drills the big hard guys were all saying ‘pick me pick me!’. So she did & the more she beat the shit out of them, the more they fell in love with her.
/hijack

60

The thing about violence on the street is that you stand a good chance of running into mexican judo. It’s best just to get yourself out of the area.