Hey folks, trying to work some kinks out of steroid dieting. I was wondering if maybe I should have a carb up day, while using a low carb diet. I am consuming 240gms protein, 30 gms of fat, and 50 gms of carbs a day. I am 170 13% bodyfat trying to get to 7%. I was thinking about having a carb up day every 10th day or so? What do you guys think and what is your past experience. Poliquin recommend a time period, but I can not find that article I Read a long time ago. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ketoman.
ketoman, read Joel Marion’s article “The Cheater’s Diet” from last weeks issue. It address severe dieting while using Mag-10 to preserve mass, and includes 2 weekly carb refeeds. I think it would suit your needs well.
Hope this helps.
well I’m doing a almos no-carb diet and ever 3 days I have a carb meal. I’m consuming less than 10grmas per day, so every 3 days, at dinner I take about 150 to 200grams.
Bill is this ok?? Oh yeah! I’m also taking MD6, T2 pro and ZMA plus a no carb MRP
you are a moron. where is all the fat? and calories???
that might be a tad rough but only 30 grams of fat is a moronic thing to have in your diet
D-man I dont think ketomans fat grams or his carbohydrate intake is moronic according to Cy Wilsons article Steroid Dieting
Your Guide to Losing Fat While “On”. I think you need to go back and read the article before answering any more damn questions. JACKASS!
D-man blow me. If you do not have anything more intelligent to say other than some ignorant hill billy opinion, then take your skinny pussy lifting ass back to your gay techno club. Fuck off and go read. Thanks 
Dig out the article on the T-Dawg diet. It’s one of best ‘keto/low cal.’ diet’s that I find works (for me). I use a ratio of 30%P, 20%C & 50%F with a daily calorie total of 1600. Read the diet for more in depth info. The carbs are taken after my workout made up of maltodextrin.
Alright, the bullshit can stop w/ the last post; everyone grow up…that kind of nonsense almost makes me not want to respond.
As for the refeed, here are the protocols that I suggest:
1. It should last ~7-8 hours.
2. It's caloric value should be 1-1.5 times your maintenance calorie intake. For example, if maintenance is 3000, then the value should be 3000-4500 calories. Start at the low end of the range at first.
3. The macro breakdown should be 70% carbs, 20% protein, and whatever fat you cannot avoid.
4. Foods like potatoes, pasta, oats, bagels, low-fat pop tarts or grahm crackers, pretzels, non-fat ice cream, or basically anything else w/ little fat and fructose, esp. in the form of HFCSyrup (read the labels).
5. Twice weekly, such as Sunday and Thursday should work well.
This differs slightly than the refeeds i recommend in my article, but after doing more research, this seems to be optimal. You restore glycogen with little or no fat gain, while getting the desired leptin response to ensure continual fat loss.
Once you get leaner, you may be able to get away with more "cheating" per se, but the above approach will leave you very very satisfied and will allow you to eat some foods that would most certainly be off limits twice weekly, and it will actually accelerate your progress.
Check out my article for an optimal training protocol.
Also, please post your results. Best of luck,
-Joel
How long can someone actually stay on such a diet Mr. Marion? How long is too long? and how would you recommend going back to maintance while keeping the fat off? thanks and hope to hear from you soon.
Just call me Joel. If going w/ a severe calorie restriction, it is neccesary to use an androgen to prevent LBM loss; obviously you cannot be on an androgen forever, thus, when you cycle off, you have to raise calories. If when you cycle off, you stick with a keto diet, you can still employ the refeeds w/ no problem as glycogen will be near depleted.
You could also use the approach w/ no androgen provided you use a keto diet w/ a moderate calorie restriction.
As far as returning to maintenance calories; if you go on a 2-3 week cycle, go ahead and bump right back up to 1g of carbs per lb of body weight. With a prolonged cutting cycle, you may have to reintroduce carbs more slowly; I believe John Berardi wrote an article for coming off a long term keto diet in the past, you may want to check it out if using the approach over an extended period of time.
its too bad you guys had hissy fits. i never said that you couldnt do the diet, but the criticisms still stand
I know it’s different for every person, but I’m curious as to what your daily calorie intake was while on Mag-10? Also, I know it’s not written in stone, but what do you think is the lowest you should be going while not on an androgen? I was figuring somewhere around 12 times bodyweight when not on. Thanks for your help.
My maintenance caloric intake is around 2900-3000 calories, so therefore I went with a 1500 calorie deficit and end up eating ~1400-1500 calories daily.
As far as with dieting without an androgen, I wouldn't go lower than -500 calories, maybe slightly lower if using something like Methoxy-7. I don't like the body weight or LBM multiplier method for calculating calories for the reasoning that I stated in my article. Subtracting from maintenance in more accurate.
Joel, cannot find that article by John Berardi in regards to returning to maintance from a keto diet. Can you point the direction? thanks
For starters I dunno if you are upset with my response to one of the guys that wrote in or the guy who responded or both of us. Either way I am sorry if I offended you. I appreciate your help. Next is this. I am not using Mag-10. I am using 50mg of d-bol daily and 300mg of test. weekly. Also am taking MD6. Cycling the steroids two weeks on two weeks off. Weeks off I take MD6 and clomid. I still am not into ketosis, but rainbow and bill roberts in the steroid forum told me that it was okay that my keto strips were showing that I am not in ketosis. I have been on this diet for 5 days and still have not been able to tell any fat loss and measured this morning and no difference in waist. I usually drop at least a 1/2" my first week on a keto diet.My diet is looking like this. Breakfast 1-2 whole eggs, 3-4 egg whites, 20g in proteind drink 3 gms of carbs in it also, mix it with water. Half a grapefruit. (by the way this meal is after my morning workout). Next meal is usually a salad with fish, chicken, beef. I then ususally have another protein drink low carb of course. Then I have 2-3 other meals like my lunch. Lean meat with some green leafy low cal/low carb vegetable. What do you think I am doing wrong? Or am I on the right track? I also am working out every other day using meltdown training program. No cardio, cuz I wanna preserve lean body mass. Also is it okay if I do low carb for 14 days before I carb up for the first time? ANy help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any response. Peace.
Joel,
using ur program, could i say go 2 weeks at maintenence then in my 2 weeks dieting use methoxy? then not us it when my cals are maintenence? What are androgens? according to Berardi my maintence intake should be about 3500, and my dieting intake close to 3000, i only weigh 170, this seems high to me. But i guess my maintenec eintake is something i should find on my own correct? Even if u are at maintence intake, if in a lo carb diet, you can still incorporate refeeds, or cheat meals?
What is your total calorie intake and what is maintenance for you? Your calorie intake should be about 1500 cals below maintenance. It’s not neccesary to go low carb for 14 days first; 4 or 5 days at those calorie levels should do it. The reason you are getting subpar results is because your body is the master of adaptation and is trying to “keep you alive.” Severe calorie restrictions are not viewed as “normal” and your body will quickly adapt, causing you to preserve fat mass. Check out my Cheaters Diet article and take a look at “What Severe Dieting Does” for some more insight. What you need to do to keep the fat coming off is overfeed, try the carb-up recommendations that I posted earlier on this thread, and since you are going w/ a severe diet, go w/ ~1.5xs maintenance for the caloric value of the overfeed.
Please check out my article for training recommendations; Meltdown would be good for the off weeks, but I think there are better protocols for the low calorie "on" weeks.
-Joel
Yes, you can incorporate refeeds on a low carb maintenance diet to restore glycogen levels, but I’d go with a more moderate refeed, maybe 3/4 of your maintenance intake with the protocols that I suggested above. Yes, you need to find out your maintenance intake for yourself; calculations can give you starting figures, but it ultimatly will come down to trial and error.
You cannot use my training protocols w/o some sort of steroid compound, such as AAS or legal prohormones, such as Mag-10. If you did, you’d sacrifice LBM because of all the cardio involved.