(First off I just want to say, that I am in no way involved in nutrition or dietary requirements, I just want to start a conversation about the true requirements of protein for building muscle)
Many people, me included, advocate and practice the consumption of eating a lot of protein to aid in the recovery of muscle after training. Some people say you need 1g of protein a lb of body weight, others say more, like 1.5g and possibly greater values, then on the other end of the spectrum people say justing easting a normal diet is ample.
However, which is true? How much protein do we REALLY need to build muscle?
So anyway I started reading a 2007 report by the World Health Organization on ‘Protein and amino acid requirements in human nutrition’ and found, if my interpretation is correct, some interesting answers.
It seems to suggest that 0.83g protein per a Kg of body weight should be ample for a healthy individual, and I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
Anyhow this is just my interpretation, someone please tell me otherwise, do bodybuilders need more/less protein, with evidence please.
Good question. It depends on many factors - diet, training intensity and frequency, sleep, and other stress factors. If you lift heavy weights more than 3 days a week then you need to eat more protein than most - but not that much more.
Normally proteins in the body will turnover to be used elsewhere when they are needed. Proteins from other organs can be used to repair muscle damage when dietary protein is not immediately available.
Muscle tissue is about 17% protein. One kilogram of lean tissue will be about 170 grams of protein. A person with 70kg of muscle will only have a total of 12 kilograms of protein in all of his muscles mass. Theoretically, to gain 1 kilo of muscle tissue in one month it would only require to eat 6 grams per day of protein in excess of maintenance levels.
The half life of actin and myosin are roughly on the order of a few months. A person carrying 70 kilo of muscle will turnover 6 kilograms of protein every few months. This does not mean this protein is lost to him but rather will be turned over multiple times in the process of building up and breaking down new tissues.
I think the most accurate way to know how much protein to consume is to measure how much protein is being wasted through urea excretion. When the amount being excreted is less than being taken in you are in a positive nitrogen balance and that indicates the formation new proteins.
Other than that, if you don’t constantly feel like crap or have low energy during workouts and are noticing positive changes in your strength and appearance then you should be consuming enough protein and you need not worry.
I’ve read as little as 7 grams of protein will put the body in an anabolic state for a few hours. Technically, assuming five meals daily, that comes out to 35 grams.
I’m sure more is better so to speak but I don’t think anybody knows where the point of limiting returns exists.
'Many individuals consume intakes of 3?4 times the recommended intake, possibly for relatively long periods of time,without (presumably) exhibiting such symptoms; while no specific evidence for harm, can be identified neither the fact nor such intakes are risk-free can be insured. Given the lack of evidence of benefit in terms of athletic performance or physique, it might be prudent to avoid such intakes (90)
I mean from this it suggests, to me anyway, that I, as a 70kg male should be okay with 58g of protein. I mean it uses the work safe limit, but I believe it is talking about a safe lower limit?
?Protein requirements of adults
The protein requirements of adult men and women of various body weights
are shown in Table 46. For adults, the protein requirement per kg body weight
is considered to be the same for both sexes, at all ages, and for all body weights
within the acceptable range. The value accepted for the safe level of intake
is 0.83 g/kg per day, for proteins with a protein digestibility-corrected amino
acid score value of 1.0. No safe upper limit has been identified, and it is unlikely that intakes of twice the safe level are associated with any risk.
However, caution is advised to those contemplating the very high intakes of
3?4 times the safe intake, since such intakes approach the tolerable upper
limit and cannot be assumed to be risk-free.?
Safe level of protein intake for adult men and women.a
Body weight Safe level of protein intake
(kg) (g/kg per day)b
Heres the deal, I dont know anybody who consumes under 200 grams of protein a day that I would want to look or perform like. All the people whose eyes get large when I disclose that I eat well over 250 grams of protein a day then proceed to tell me it is unnecessary cannot get under my bar weight and generally suck at life.
[quote]MacSaintson wrote:
Heres the deal, I dont know anybody who consumes under 200 grams of protein a day that I would want to look or perform like. All the people whose eyes get large when I disclose that I eat well over 250 grams of protein a day then proceed to tell me it is unnecessary cannot get under my bar weight and generally suck at life.[/quote]
Basically this. If you want to look like the average American, then eat the recommended daily allowance. People looking to build more muscle than 95% of the population probably shouldn’t eat like 95% of the population.
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.[/quote]
True. Most medical studies are done on middle aged women. That is why having a solid background in what is even involved with a study is more important than simply finding studies.
If they say you only need .2 gr of protein a day based on studies done on Algerian Spider Monkeys, you may want to spend less time worrying about it
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.[/quote]
True. Most medical studies are done on middle aged women. That is why having a solid background in what is even involved with a study is more important than simply finding studies.
If they say you only need .2 gr of protein a day based on studies done on Algerian Spider Monkeys, you may want to spend less time worrying about it[/quote]
Op, whenever I eat 1Xbodyweight (in pounds so more than twice the ‘safe’ upper limit) in protein I wake up the next morning in pure agony and would have barely recovered. It takes 1.5-2Xmy body weight in pounds for me to recover. I am also only counting complete protein sources. So what I am basically saying is if you TRAIN (intense weight lifting for progress, and sprinting/long distance running focused on progress) not workout (trying to burn calories like the average fat *** does and calls it exercise) seriously seven times a week you will be destroyed in a very very short period of time.
[quote]MacSaintson wrote:
Heres the deal, I dont know anybody who consumes under 200 grams of protein a day that I would want to look or perform like. All the people whose eyes get large when I disclose that I eat well over 250 grams of protein a day then proceed to tell me it is unnecessary cannot get under my bar weight and generally suck at life.[/quote]
Do you supplement with hormonal or digestive support?
Most people could not handle that much protein on a long term basis with out that. I know I tried and failed miserably.
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.[/quote]
I posted this before in an other thread but it must have went ignored.
The take-away:
“There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass (creatinine excretion, body density) for either group. In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males.”
[quote]MacSaintson wrote:
Heres the deal, I dont know anybody who consumes under 200 grams of protein a day that I would want to look or perform like. All the people whose eyes get large when I disclose that I eat well over 250 grams of protein a day then proceed to tell me it is unnecessary cannot get under my bar weight and generally suck at life.[/quote]
Do you supplement with hormonal or digestive support?
Most people could not handle that much protein on a long term basis with out that. I know I tried and failed miserably.[/quote]
Based on what do you know that? Your field trial of yourself as a 1-person sample set? I can’t remember the last time I averaged under 300g/day (currently 220lbs bw).
What were you eating to get your protein? Whey? Could be lactose intolerant… any number of methods you might have used to get in that much protein may have had digestive side effects that were unrelated to protein itself.
Did you increase fiber intake proportionally? Drink milk? etc.
[quote]MacSaintson wrote:
Heres the deal, I dont know anybody who consumes under 200 grams of protein a day that I would want to look or perform like. All the people whose eyes get large when I disclose that I eat well over 250 grams of protein a day then proceed to tell me it is unnecessary cannot get under my bar weight and generally suck at life.[/quote]
Do you supplement with hormonal or digestive support?
Most people could not handle that much protein on a long term basis with out that. I know I tried and failed miserably.[/quote]
???
You serious? You think everyone who ate that much is like that or even most?
Dude, how much muscle have you built?
I spent over a decade making SURE I ate more than 300gr of protein a day. You deal with it and grow muscles from it.
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.[/quote]
I posted this before in an other thread but it must have went ignored.
The take-away:
“There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass (creatinine excretion, body density) for either group. In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males.”[/quote]
A) What the hell is “body density”?
B) It was a 13 day trial. Of course you aren’t going to see noticeable differences in muscle mass (that exceed standard error bounds) in 13 days of training.
[quote]09greenj wrote:
I couldn’t seem to find anything about increasing intakes for bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Because these studies are never done on weight trained individuals (or at least I have never seen it). That is why those who weight train should take the results with a grain of salt.[/quote]
I posted this before in an other thread but it must have went ignored.
The take-away:
“There were no effects of varying protein intake on indexes of lean body mass (creatinine excretion, body density) for either group. In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males.”[/quote]
Do you understand that “strength trainer” does NOT mean the same as “guy trying to build as much muscle as humanly possible”?
They rarely do studies on BODYBUILDERS or what they need to grow.