[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train for strength. I eat for size. Strength and size are very much directly related with diet being the largest difference between the two goals.
[/quote]
Perfectly said. If you train hard for strength and eat for size, you are doing what needs to be done to increase size, but the eating is what provides the building blocks to increase size.
Wow, hope that makes sense, lol
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
every person that any of us would consider big has undergone a large strength gain.
1morerep (because of genetics and selective lifting) looks like he has allot of muscle. But he truly doesn’t have much muscle (no offense, you look good 1morerep) he also doesnt lift very much.
Also, I wouldnt base my plans off someone like 1morerep anyway. Like stated before it is rare to look as big as he does at his weight.
Building strength is one of the absolute best ways to build muscle when done the proper way. there are tons of programs who have got people big that all revolved around gaining strength.
Not to mention I dont know any big guys who are weak. I know big guys who now lift light because of injuries, but they got big from lifting heavy.
Saying that strength gain and muscle gain are two completley different things is a crock of shit. All I have ever done is train for strength and I have put on a ton of muscle. If I would have my diet in line I would have put on much more muscle and allot less fat as well.
If you think strength gain and muscle gain aren’t related go tell all the big power lifters, DC lifters, guys who trained with 5x5 progression type programs, max OT training guys, me, and any of the other big guys “who just happen to lift a shit load” that they gained their muscle just by chance.
Good post. Someone, please point out to me the many 150lbs people who are bench pressing more than 405lbs for several reps (not single half assed attempts) every training session in gyms all across the country.
I train for strength. I eat for size. Strength and size are very much directly related with diet being the largest difference between the two goals.
[/quote]
I agree with both newb and the prof.
It’s that confusion thing again, i.e. "I bench 405, just like that pro-bodybuilder over there, and I’m way smaller!
I’m so cool and functional!", while in fact the kid just did a pl-style bench max single (if even, more than likely that he did a lockout with a 2 inch ROM…) and the pro did his last warm-up with 405 times 8, bb style form, before his 495 * 6-8 all-out set…
Why on earth do people think strength=1-5 reps… And that somehow you don’t get stronger unless you train in that zone…
How often can we repeat “getting stronger every workout on all exercises performed for moderate reps(or whatever range that muscle-group seems to respond best to) while eating a ton is what makes you grow.”
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
every person that any of us would consider big has undergone a large strength gain.
1morerep (because of genetics and selective lifting) looks like he has allot of muscle. But he truly doesn’t have much muscle (no offense, you look good 1morerep) he also doesnt lift very much.
Also, I wouldnt base my plans off someone like 1morerep anyway. Like stated before it is rare to look as big as he does at his weight.
Building strength is one of the absolute best ways to build muscle when done the proper way. there are tons of programs who have got people big that all revolved around gaining strength. Not to mention I dont know any big guys who are weak. I know big guys who now lift light because of injuries, but they got big from lifting heavy.
Why on earth do people think strength=1-5 reps… And that somehow you don’t get stronger unless you train in that zone…
How often can we repeat “getting stronger every workout on all exercises performed for moderate reps(or whatever range that muscle-group seems to respond best to) while eating a ton is what makes you grow.”
[/quote]
Generally speaking, 4-6 reps focuses more on strength. It however is a continuum, not a definitive marker. That’s what some people don’t seem to grasp. It’s not like once you go to 7 reps you won’t get stronger and all of a sudden at 8 reps you’re increasing size.
There’s just more of a focus on strength in that rep range as opposed to 15 reps. Just like there is more of a focus on endurance of the muscle with above 12 reps as opposed to strength, though you will get stronger with it. That’s all.
ok this is getting a bit out of hand. my original intent for posting the strength/size thing was due to an earlier post suggesting to the OP not to consider competing until he could bench 315 for reps.
i thought this was absurd as, like i’ve stated, i’ve seen guys who can do that and didn’t have any impressive size that i could see.
take, for example, powerlifter dennis cieri. the guy is 198 lbs and has a bench press of 595! check out his pics and video. where are this guys slabs of muscle mass? he has probably what…16" arms?
if he walked into your gym and set up say 525 on the bench, wouldn’t you think this guys was ready to kill himself? or if he posted on here with some pics and his lift stats. no wait…even if he claimed he only had a 405 bench press, i guarantee every singe one of you would claim bullshit and flame the hell out if him.
of course he’s a genetic freak. but there are a lot of guys who are strong in this manner and just plain and simple don’t look it.
[quote]1morerep wrote:
ok this is getting a bit out of hand. my original intent for posting the strength/size thing was due to an earlier post suggesting to the OP not to consider competing until he could bench 315 for reps.
i thought this was absurd as, like i’ve stated, i’ve seen guys who can do that and didn’t have any impressive size that i could see.
take, for example, powerlifter dennis cieri. the guy is 198 lbs and has a bench press of 595! check out his pics and video. where are this guys slabs of muscle mass? if he walked into your gym and set up say 525 on the bench, wouldn’t you think this guys was ready to kill himself?
or if he posted on here with some pics and his lift stats. no wait…even if he claimed he only had a 405 bench press, i guarantee every singe one of you would claim bullshit and flame the hell out if him.
of course he’s a genetic freak. but there are a lot of guys who are strong in this manner and just plain and simple don’t look it.
[/quote]
a) Constantly trying to increase your 1RM is not what we mean when we say training for “strength” in order to get big.
b) Now I’m not sure, but to me he looks like he doesn’t do much in the way of hypertrophy assistance work (which is how pl’s get big, muscle-wise) and likely doesn’t eat enough protein…
c) is that a raw bench or equipped?
Edit: forget c), I hadn’t yet watched the vid upon posting.
i don’t care what kind of lifting style you’re doing. i’m just providing a retort to something prof x said:
ok this guys is a pro but my point is he can lift way more than 405 and he doesn’t look it. lifting style, protein intake, bla bla bla … i don’t concur.
just check out youtube. there are a gazillion young guys working out that can move nice weight but they don’t have impressive physiques. where are these guys massive builds?
check out the first video. does this kid even look like he’s ever touched a barbell before in his life? and the other two have decent builds but do they look like they can move they weight they can? i don’t think so but that’s just me.
[quote]1morerep wrote:
i don’t care what kind of lifting style you’re doing. i’m just providing a retort to something prof x said:
Professor X wrote:I have and I have yet to see these really strong yet tiny guys. Usually, if there is 405lbs on the bar, the guy lifting it LOOKS like he can lift 405lbs.
ok this guys is a pro but my point is he can lift way more than 405 and he doesn’t look it. lifting style, protein intake, bla bla bla … i don’t concur.
just check out youtube. there are a gazillion young guys working out that can move nice weight but they don’t have impressive physiques. where are these guys massive builds? check out the last video. does this kid even look like he’s even touched a barbell before in his life?
[/quote]
Who are you playing games with? I WORKOUT WITH MORE THAN 405LBS. That does not mean I only do a one rep max while someone lifts half the weight off of me. I do this much for SEVERAL REPS.
I do not max out and no one is talking about what someone can do for only one fucking rep.
Did this really need an explanation?
How many little guys are WORKING OUT with 405lbs FOR SEVERAL REPS as a part of their regular workout?
Do you get it now?
If I can do 405lbs for 8 reps, that means my “one rep max” is much higher than that.
Powerlifting is often more about technique than it is strength. That is NOT the case in bodybuilding because the goal is NOT to just do the lift, it is to stimulate specific muscle tissue.
[quote]1morerep wrote:
i don’t care what kind of lifting style you’re doing. i’m just providing a retort to something prof x said:
Professor X wrote:I have and I have yet to see these really strong yet tiny guys. Usually, if there is 405lbs on the bar, the guy lifting it LOOKS like he can lift 405lbs.
ok this guys is a pro but my point is he can lift way more than 405 and he doesn’t look it. lifting style, protein intake, bla bla bla … i don’t concur.
just check out youtube. there are a gazillion young guys working out that can move nice weight but they don’t have impressive physiques. where are these guys massive builds?
check out the first video. does this kid even look like he’s ever touched a barbell before in his life? and the other two have decent builds but do they look like they can move they weight they can? i don’t think so but that’s just me.
[/quote]
I didn’t mean to anger you or anything, just trying to explain.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Powerlifting is often more about technique than it is strength. That is NOT the case in bodybuilding because the goal is NOT to just do the lift, it is to stimulate specific muscle tissue.[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Who are you playing games with? I WORKOUT WITH MORE THAN 405LBS. That does not mean I only do a one rep max while someone lifts half the weight off of me. I do this much for SEVERAL REPS.
I do not max out and no one is talking about what someone can do for only one fucking rep.
Did this really need an explanation?
How many little guys are WORKING OUT with 405lbs FOR SEVERAL REPS as a part of their regular workout?
Do you get it now?
If I can do 405lbs for 8 reps, that means my “one rep max” is much higher than that.
[/quote]
i’m sure you do. but you weigh what? 250+? and you’ve been training over a decade? i’m just saying there are guys out there who have been working out half as long as you who don’t have half the build you have and yet are lifting more weight than you. not playing games at all so don’t shoot the messenger!
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
1morerep wrote:
i don’t care what kind of lifting style you’re doing. i’m just providing a retort to something prof x said:
Professor X wrote:I have and I have yet to see these really strong yet tiny guys. Usually, if there is 405lbs on the bar, the guy lifting it LOOKS like he can lift 405lbs.
ok this guys is a pro but my point is he can lift way more than 405 and he doesn’t look it. lifting style, protein intake, bla bla bla … i don’t concur.
just check out youtube. there are a gazillion young guys working out that can move nice weight but they don’t have impressive physiques. where are these guys massive builds?
check out the first video. does this kid even look like he’s ever touched a barbell before in his life? and the other two have decent builds but do they look like they can move they weight they can? i don’t think so but that’s just me.
I didn’t mean to anger you or anything, just trying to explain.
[/quote]
The goal of a powerlifter doing a bench press is to move the weight.
The goal of a bodybuilder is to have his chest muscles do most of the work so they will grow as a result.
A powerlifter doesn’t care whether his triceps handle most of the weight or his shoulders as long as the weight goes up and down. That is why structural issues come into play and why long limbs can work against you in some cases.
When I finish a workout for chest, my chest alone is hammered. I specifically tried to move that weight using my chest muscles above anything else. That is why a bodybuilder who can move 400+lbs for several reps will have a much larger chest than someone who is only focused on moving the weight one time.
Bodybuilders focus on reps which = gains in size. Pretty much why most BBers do their sets in the 6-12 rep range.
Powerlifters are more concerned with the maximum weight they lift, which may contribute to size to a lesser degree. They stick with reps in the 1-5 rep range, GENERALLY SPEAKING.
I thought it was pretty well established that the larger powerlifters are that hyooog primarily because of the BB style (repetition effort/assistance work) training they do aside from their powerlifting specific stuff. That’s not to say that the ‘ME’/heavy, low rep lifting they do doesn’t help them in the size department though.
Also, the x factor for both BBers and PLers is amount of food consumed.
You guys have seen the physiologic explanation of this stuff.
[quote]1morerep wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Who are you playing games with? I WORKOUT WITH MORE THAN 405LBS. That does not mean I only do a one rep max while someone lifts half the weight off of me. I do this much for SEVERAL REPS.
I do not max out and no one is talking about what someone can do for only one fucking rep.
Did this really need an explanation?
How many little guys are WORKING OUT with 405lbs FOR SEVERAL REPS as a part of their regular workout?
Do you get it now?
If I can do 405lbs for 8 reps, that means my “one rep max” is much higher than that.
i’m sure you do. but you weigh what? 250+? and you’ve been training over a decade? i’m just saying there are guys out there who have been working out half as long as you who don’t have half the build you have and yet are lifting more weight than you. not playing games at all so don’t shoot the messenger!
[/quote]
Apples to oranges. You don’t have a clue what I can lift for only one rep and neither do I BECAUSE I DO NOT TRAIN TO MOVE A WEIGHT ONE TIME.
That means pointing out little guys who can only move a weight one time with a fucking spotter does NOT equal me moving the same weight without a spotter for 8 times or more every week.
Okay. I admit, I was wrong.
Zep shouldn’t focus on getting his bench up to 3 plates for 10 reps. This won’t make him bigger.
Instead I think he should do supersets with 180lb, 5-0-5 cadence with pinkies on rings, incline set to exactly 14.5782 degrees, with a squirrel on his forehead and while saying ‘Chad Waterbury’ backwards. Each session, the goal is to add 1.25 reps (or 1.217%, whichever is more pathetic).
This is hardcore. This is bodybuilding. Can you handle it?
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Okay. I admit, I was wrong.
Zep shouldn’t focus on getting his bench up to 3 plates for 10 reps. This won’t make him bigger.
Instead I think he should do supersets with 180lb, 5-0-5 cadence with pinkies on rings, incline set to exactly 14.5782 degrees, with a squirrel on his forehead and while saying ‘Chad Waterbury’ backwards. Each session, the goal is to add 1.25 reps (or 1.217%, whichever is more pathetic).
This is hardcore. This is bodybuilding. Can you handle it?[/quote]
LOL.
What I seem to be getting is that since some little guy can lift a weight ONE FUCKING TIME with a spotter straining to help as he twists and contorts to get the job done, this somehow makes them stronger than the bodybuilder who is using the same weight FOR SEVERAL REPS without a spotter (or at least very light help) and decent form.
The logic in this thread is lacking.
I still have yet to see the little guy using 405lbs FOR REPS (is the font fucking big enough) like bodybuilders do.
Please point them out to me, someone.
[quote]1morerep wrote:
i disagree with both of these statements. too many people are overly concerned and influenced by numbers whether it be body weight, lifting stats, bf %, measurements, etc. what really counts is how you look. i’ve seen so many guys who outweigh me and out lift me but they don’t look anything like me.
[/quote]
Haha. I’m about the same size as you, maybe 3 pounds lighter, and you look a hell of a lot better than I do.
Fucker.
EDITTED (was in a bit of a hurry, sorry) ::
He’s probably right, though.
There are powerlifters who don;t look anything like you who can probably move a lot more for 1 rep. At the same time there could be someone with 'half the build and half the training" as you who can move more weight for several reps than you can IN A PARTICULAR movement that they are well suited for. (in the vids imore posted, the guy who benches a lot doesn;t necessarily row, curl or squat a lot for example). I believe 1more himself rows the 150’s for reps with perfect form easily (@160) but struggles with pushing movements, so yes! I;m saying this as an engineer, its possible…we’re just a set of levers and muscles pulling in bones. A 400 pound gorilla is a hell of a lot stornger than just twice the strength of a 200 pound guy 9on movements that do not require too much specific training) just ebcause the musclkes are inserted further from the joint!!! so why the hell not?
There are simply too many factors to take into account when you consider ther ability to move weight, limb length leverages, training, groove, form, fiber ratio (someone may be so well suited to THAT rep range)…
but muscle gain has something to do with strength GAINED! How strong you are in a certain movement may mean nothing bbwise (related to your current state) except that you could have a greater proportion of fast fibers that will hypertrophy easily, or you have a well developed CNS or whatever which is also good.
The 5’7’ 196@9% freak i told you about benches the 95’s for 5 reps and struggles to bench the 100’s for even 1 rep, he struggles with 275 pounds on the squat (parallel) and has yet to deadlift 315 for 5 reps. But he has been gainign strength for most of his training.
So where’s this discussion going anyway?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
1morerep wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Who are you playing games with? I WORKOUT WITH MORE THAN 405LBS. That does not mean I only do a one rep max while someone lifts half the weight off of me. I do this much for SEVERAL REPS.
I do not max out and no one is talking about what someone can do for only one fucking rep.
Did this really need an explanation?
How many little guys are WORKING OUT with 405lbs FOR SEVERAL REPS as a part of their regular workout?
Do you get it now?
If I can do 405lbs for 8 reps, that means my “one rep max” is much higher than that.
i’m sure you do. but you weigh what? 250+? and you’ve been training over a decade? i’m just saying there are guys out there who have been working out half as long as you who don’t have half the build you have and yet are lifting more weight than you. not playing games at all so don’t shoot the messenger!
Apples to oranges. You don’t have a clue what I can lift for only one rep and neither do I BECAUSE I DO NOT TRAIN TO MOVE A WEIGHT ONE TIME.
That means pointing out little guys who can only move a weight one time with a fucking spotter does NOT equal me moving the same weight without a spotter for 8 times or more every week.
[/quote]
OK!!! I looked at the pics and you are NOWHERE near ready. If you want to do this seriously, take some proper pics with the compulsories in proper lighting and put them up on your log for us to take a look, but I;m afraid that won;t be necesssary. Do it anyway.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/zepheads_log?id=1922298&pageNo=14
TOwards the bottom of that link is where I’m at now. I had leg pics posted a few weeks back. I’m bottom heavy as is. Are their any glaring genetic imperfections like shitty insertions. Or am I just too fat to tell?[/quote]
How does anyone know there is someone 1/2 his size that lifts more? How much does he lift?
from a 1 rep standpoint, I;m willing to bet that bob peoples 1 RM deadlift was higher than most of us can lift for 1RM.
We’re just muscle fiobers connected to levers with the brain signalling the firing, its definitely possible. But since the only ways to increase strength after bone structure etc have been established are to train the “firing” better or make it more efficient, and to increaese the size of the muscle fibers, gaining significant strength over an extended time period usually involves hypertrophy!
This thread is retarded, No one can tell Zep that he needs to get his bench to 315 or whatever before he diets down. Too many factors affect your strength output ina lift. You can only tell him that he needs to gain more muscle, and that means he needs to get STRONGER at movements he chooses.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
How does anyone know there is someone 1/2 his size that lifts more? How much does he lift?[/quote]