Jay Cutler actually had a structured but winged approach, which actually makes sense to those who know what they’re doing.
Some of CT’s best older articles were pro-split.
I heard this many times and I couldn’t help but wonder: then why are many of the guys also winging it not getting anywhere?
Are they just not working hard enough? Isn’t it there value in following a sound program?
Not enough effort. Many many people have no idea how to actually exert themselves. Most folks quit at the first sign of effort needed, not understanding that this is the point where the training STARTS.
People will go through the motions for years and never leave their comfort zones.
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Because a lot of the people who try it are attracted to it because it seems like less discipline is required - turn up do whatever get strong as fuck. But like a lot of things in life, the simpler way often requires more discipline, not less.
I don’t wing it. I know I can convince myself to leave after the main work. I know I can accept a hard set instead of one that makes me worried. I know I can make an argument for a tricep pushdown over a floor press, etc.
Same with my diet. If I wing it, it’s ice cream after dinner each night. I have not properly developed this type of discipline yet.
Now, consider that people see me as consistent and motivated (if they’re being nice)/regimented (being not so nice) and apply that to a regular "Imma wing it* champ.
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a lack of effort, and most likely a lack of consistent work. I think the mentality that leads a lot of people to wing it in the gym will also lead people to skip too many workouts.
You have to remember that I’ve been training on and off for 16 years. So me winging it now is not the same thing as if I had winged it 10 years ago. As recently as just about 3 years ago, I still followed programs regularly. I did 5/3/1 for awhile, and it served me well.
There is, of course. I would never suggest otherwise. But the important components of a program are regular effort and intensity, proper exercise selection, proper rep and set numbers, and structure in general. My workouts are not necessarily unstructured, so I should make that clear. It’s not as if I’m just running from one station to another, picking random weights, random sets and reps, random exercises. That would not work.
So how do you “structure” your unstructured program. Do you have a set/rep scheme and body parts in mind when you enter the gym?
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I generally perform the lift that has ‘priority’ for me first. So like, right now log pressing is a thing I’m prioritizing because I have it coming up in a competition. I’ll start with that, and I’ll work up to something heavy. Maybe a heavy single, maybe doubles, whatever. Then I’ll back off and do some sets of 5-10 with a lower weight. After that, I’ll generally move to a secondary shoulder exercise. It could be incline bench, it could be 1 arm dumbbell overhead press, it could be dips. And I’ll do like 3-5 sets of 10 on that. Then I’ll do additional accessory work that could include pull ups, dumbbell rows, curls, extensions, lateral raises. Just a few things to get some more work done, all in high-ish rep schemes.
If that looks familiar, it’s a totally bastardized 5/3/1 w/ boring but big accessory workout. There are no percentages uses, it’s far less programmed than what 5/3/1 is. I still take the things that I think are really important from that program, and apply it in a way that works for me right now.
Here’s a very different workout I did recently, but you’ll see that it ‘makes sense’: a few days ago I hammered my lower back. Did axle deadlifting to start, then moved to a power pin high pull (a movement I’m learning for power stairs), and then did some keg throws for height. All of this was centered around lower back development, which is essential for strongman.
I also generally have 1 day a week where I’ll practice a handful of strongman lifts, and basically nothing else. This is generally going to be a a log or axle press, some form of a carry, and then something like atlas stones. there are a zillion permutations on this, but it’s basically a day to work on strength skills rather than just continuing to build the strength base.
So to answer your question a little more directly, yes I have body parts in mind when I enter the gym, although I do tend to thin in terms of training movements rather than training bodyparts. Like I don’t have a chest, arms and shoulders day, I have a pressing day. I don’t have a hips and lower back day, I have a pull day. I have a loaded carry session, I have a stone session.
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That makes perfect sense to me and I understand your mindset is strongman event oriented. Actually, I think we all think similarly about our training; we just don’t realize it.
I want to improve my squat so I usually have a squat day with accessories to build up lagging parts or balance out the session. I want to improve my bench so I have a bench day. It’s usually not a chest day; it’s a bench day. I totally get it.
I know all of the principles and theories of training but I still struggle to get it right without a plan. It might be my own plan but I still like to put it on paper and enter the gym with most things scripted. I think it’s a personality type of thing.
Thanks for sharing!
I think the only people who should really ‘train specific muscles’ are competitive bodybuilders. It makes more sense for basically everyone else to train the way we are talking about.
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What I’ve learned is pick a few compound lifts you want to really get good, lets say chin-ups, bench press, front squat, and trap bar deadlift. Go in and hammer 1 or 2 of those lifts (depending if you do full body or push pull or upper lower) and then do some high rep accessories to help bring up those lifts. And condition please.
So like for front squat I know that I need strong legs, back, core and ample mobility to get it from shitty to great. So I’ll go in work up to heavy set and some more heavier sets. I might do 5x5, 10x3, 6x4 or whatever. I like straight sets so I’m a bit different in that regard. And then I’ll go do something for my quads, hamstrings, maybe glutes, definitely core for 3-5 sets of 8-20 depending on how I feel that day. And then I’ll stretch the shit out of my lats, triceps, biceps and wrists/forearms to cool down.
I typically follow a program now, but I do have days where I am like “fuck the program I’m bored” and can still get some quality work in.
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It’s amazing how I feel like I know so little about training even though I’ve been training myself for over 15 years, have a B.A. in Exercise Science, and hold two strength & conditioning certifications.
The sad thing is that I’ve probably learned more here in the forums in the past couple of years than I did during the previous 10+ from all of the textbooks, research articles, and conventions.
I used to train muscle groups or movement patterns. I look OK but guess what—my squat still sucks. Training “legs” didn’t work. That shit never transferred for me. I’ve finally come to realize that if I want to get better at squatting then I need to fucking squat. I spent way too many years worried about being symmetrical and balancing my upper and lower body and my pushing and pulling.
So curious, when do you know to add weight or reps to your top sets? Do you just go based on feel for that day?
I don’t follow percentages either, so was curious when do you know it’s time to add weight?
So this also includes people that aren’t competitive bodybuilders but only train for hypertrophy?
It depends on what I’m training for. But for the most part, yes it tends to be based on how my warmups feel. Let’s take deadlift for example. If I’m warming up, and I get to 500, and it feels like shit, and I feel like I couldn’t get more than a couple reps with it that day, I’ll probably stick with that, or just a little higher, and just do some triples or something. If a single flies up at 500, then 550 flies up, I’ll probably try to hit a big single. It really depends on the events I have coming up in comp though. So like, right now I’m training for an axle deadlift event where I have to hit 600 for max reps. Last time I tried 600 with an axle, I missed it. So I dropped weight and did triples. I’d prefer to be hitting reps at contest weight though, so once I get to 600, I won’t continue to try to add weight, it will be about adding reps at that weight. Regardless, I don’t expect to hit anything more than 5 reps in contest, so my training won’t really consist of sets over 5 for now. When I had a show with 400 for reps, I rarely went about 400, and I just did a lot of sets of 5-10 with that, with an occasional max reps set thrown in to gauge progress.
It’s different when you have numbers you know you have to hit on a particular date. So any structure I have in my programming will involve factoring that in. Right now, the events I have coming up are essentially an overhead press, and then 4 hip/lower back intense events. So, I’m not squatting, I’m rarely bench pressing, I’m performing a lot of hip hinges and variations on that, and I’m pressing logs twice a week.
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This makes perfect sense to me. I need to sign up for an event to have a training goal that I can go compete in. Training sounds much more fun when you have something competitive to drive you!
Dude, ABSOLUTELY. Getting into competing changed my life. I’ve made incredible progress the last 3 years because of it. I always have something on my calendar, a next level to push myself to. And it’s concrete, not just a list of things I want to do in the gym.
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This way of programming is completely foreign to me. I’ve never even thought about ‘getting good at a lift,’ much less programmed with that as a goal. I’ve only ever thought about getting bigger arms, legs, chest, etc.
Not saying your way of thinking is wrong and/or mine is right, of course.
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But that falls in the same line of thinking. Picking a few goals and basing your workout around those goals.
When I first started lifting I wanted big legs, big trunk, big back and big shoulders and I worked out (stupidly of course) with that in mind. Did absolutely no bench, incline work, dips, or any of that. All I did for my upper body was OHP press, rows and chinups lol. Got me into training so can’t complain, but once I got smarter things became more structured.
I want to look like The Rock and I’m pretty sure our styles of training are completely different…
That’s probably why I don’t look like him though 
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