What do you guys consider your upper limit with volume? How much have you experimented with? Do you believe there is such a thing as too much?
113.1040671560. Reps
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
113.1040671560. Reps [/quote]
i would hate to have a helpful answer…
Depends on the day. Some days I feel like I can do more others I can’t.
Bauber makes a good point in that your daily tolerance can vary quite a bit (lot of extra-gym related factors), but additionally, I find that recovery aspects such as diet and sleep habits can play a huge role in how much volume you can not only tolerate, but make gains from.
Speaking solely from my own experience, I was able to handle a much greater amount of overall volume and frequency of training when I seriously focused on improving my diet, paying very careful attention to what, how much, and specifically when I was eating and how I felt and slept. (of course I have no doubt it applies to everyone)
Additionally, training to failure within your training plays a role as well. When I dramatically jacked up my training volume, I stopped chasing failure. I am 100% convinced that this was vital in being able to tolerate as much as I did.
S
[quote]hanz wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
113.1040671560. Reps [/quote]
i would hate to have a helpful answer…[/quote]
That’s good because you probably won’t get many.
This answer included 
But to actually contribute and give you a somewhat helpful answer: it depends.
It depends on a lot of things:
Food intake
Goals
Genetics
AAS
Rest/recovery
Your day job
Training history
All of these are factors that effect what a lifters “optimum volume” level will be.
It is a VERY highly individualized question and every persons answer wouldore than likely be different.
Personally I have always loved lots and lots of training so my tolerance is high. I have slowly pushed volume up for a little over a year. I go in with the mind set of high volume everyday but have no problem ending early if I feel like shit, lose a pump, ect. I’ve had 2 days off(still did cardio lol) in 6 months.
Legs push pull legs push pull arms repeat. Avg volume is 40-60 sets. Some days higher some a bit lower. I don’t see a diff in warm up vs work sets I go hard on each one and leave 1-2 reps in the tank. You will never know your bodies limits until you really push yourself. Also I do 30-1.5 hrs of walking/elyptical 7 days a week ( it helps me focus on my reading)
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Personally I have always loved lots and lots of training so my tolerance is high. I have slowly pushed volume up for a little over a year. I go in with the mind set of high volume everyday but have no problem ending early if I feel like shit, lose a pump, ect.
I’ve had 2 days off(still did cardio lol) in 6 months. Legs push pull legs push pull arms repeat. Avg volume is 40-60 sets. Some days higher some a bit lower. I don’t see a diff in warm up vs work sets I go hard on each one and leave 1-2 reps in the tank. You will never know your bodies limits until you really push yourself.
Also I do 30-1.5 hrs of walking/elyptical 7 days a week ( it helps me focus on my reading)[/quote]
What macros/cals you eating currently to support all that training?
[quote]The Rattler wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Personally I have always loved lots and lots of training so my tolerance is high. I have slowly pushed volume up for a little over a year. I go in with the mind set of high volume everyday but have no problem ending early if I feel like shit, lose a pump, ect. I’ve had 2 days off(still did cardio lol) in 6 months. Legs push pull legs push pull arms repeat. Avg volume is 40-60 sets. Some days higher some a bit lower. I don’t see a diff in warm up vs work sets I go hard on each one and leave 1-2 reps in the tank. You will never know your bodies limits until you really push yourself. Also I do 30-1.5 hrs of walking/elyptical 7 days a week ( it helps me focus on my reading)[/quote]
What macros/cals you eating currently to support all that training?[/quote]
Depends on goals. I have been recomping this summer. So 3 days of 250/350/60, 2 days 250/450/60, then 2 days of as high carb as possible so 700+. Now I’ve leveled out 250/600/60 most days with a couple very high days
How much is too much? Is the extra volume contributing to your goals? If yes, perhaps more. If no you are spending time that might be better spent elsewhere.
One of Alpha’s workouts:
Note the ‘metcon’ NINETEEN ROUNDS in 20 mins!!!
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
One of Alpha’s workouts:
Note the ‘metcon’ NINETEEN ROUNDS in 20 mins!!!
[/quote]
Cross fit omg!!!
Man he is a beast
Listen to your body… If certain things hurt in a bad way like tendons ligaments then ease off them, and rest them. How much is too much is tough becuase most of us type A assholes push our bodys harder then they should be pushed… Me included… I would say ease into higher volume training just dont do it over night… Also ramp up food, rest & stretching/mobility work… Bassically spend as much time preventing injuries as you do “getting big” and it will help…
After spinning my wheels with high volume the last 5 months, I definitely think there is an upper limit…but its specific too you bruh! I’ve just really come to the realization I’m not Wolverine and I simply cannot recover from the type of high volume workouts guys on this site do. But that’s just me.
Find your goldilocks zone
My right ear is pretty much toast. My left ear is good. Weird thing though. Some people I can hear crystal clear, clear across the room. Others…right in front of me and I don’t have a clue. Certain tones, or pitches perhaps. I’m tone deaf, that must be what it is.
Regardless. I run my headphones up to about 80-85% to drown the background noise so I can concentrate. Only when I really need a boost to help lift the weight will I take it up higher than that.
Hope that helps.
In all seriousness, I think this is a good question. And I have some info that needs to be organized, put together…from different sources that might address this.
And I guess it does depend on what you’re training for and how enhanced your supplements are…since those do allow for a greater amount of volume… and it takes a refined periodization plan or system to make it all work without “injury” or overtraining…especially if you’re taking PEDs in regards to the injuries resulting from too much said volume. I’d like to see hard data versus anecdoctal on injuries for steroid users.
Meaning…I think there is a prime zone or area on the curve for volume in terms of power lifting, olympic lifting, etc… after all…for athletes developing Speed…too much volume is a Killer. But there are target areas for TUT (total time from a number of sets at certain tempos) to promote muscle development. At certain intensities that would imply a range of volume. Then how often you can do that based on a “plan” may give some sort of answer. And you can then plot your volumes and should see a a nice upward slant (overall) and if you keep that volume in a tight channel type of formation… You can also plot other data points along with it…come up with all sorts of mental masturbated variations or derivatives.
It all looks like a perfect stock chart to me nowadays. Tight channels. Like bounces off of upward sloping moving averages…little volatility. Or, base on bases…but they all add up to upward sloping channels…and try not to have a blow off parabolic move. Similar consequences…what goes up must come down.
Anyway, Its late for me, and I’m thinking out loud…so I hope that made sense. For bodybuilding “trainers” such as the some of the authors on this site, I bet their “plans” seek to achieve this. If not at least on “feel”, they have a target amount of sets, reps, at certain tempos…for a series of workouts.
And then again…you can roughly figure out your muscle fibre (fast/slow) makeup for each body part by how many reps one can do of 80% of 1 rep max…and use that as a guide for volume…for bodybuilding. Or at least that used to be the consensus. Then again, its not rocket science to understand the difference in calf muscle fibre comp versus your lats and the differences each need.
I forget his name…but I used to workout at a gym in TN that had a top level bodybuilder, former Mr. Olympia, Universe or at least the American version (I should look this up). Anyway…at the time dude was “old”, at least to me (mid 1990s), and he ALWAYS did 400 reps in his workout. Didn’t matter what it was. That was just his thing. About 3-4 days a week. Come in…400 reps. At least that’s what he did at the time. Made sense then, still does now actually.
EDIT: Going to figure out that guys name. Bothering me now.
EDIT 2: I previously had said it was Jerry Daniels. But Wiki says he’s dead, sort of. But now I know for a fact he’s alive and well, in his 60s. Talked to someone who saw him recently, so…go figure.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Personally I have always loved lots and lots of training so my tolerance is high. I have slowly pushed volume up for a little over a year. I go in with the mind set of high volume everyday but have no problem ending early if I feel like shit, lose a pump, ect. I’ve had 2 days off(still did cardio lol) in 6 months.[/quote]
Good work and advice. And you are definitely looking bigger than a year ago man!
[quote]Legs push pull legs push pull arms repeat. Avg volume is 40-60 sets. Some days higher some a bit lower. I don’t see a diff in warm up vs work sets I go hard on each one and leave 1-2 reps in the tank. You will never know your bodies limits until you really push yourself. Also I do 30-1.5 hrs of walking/elyptical 7 days a week ( it helps me focus on my reading)[/quote] Damn that is some pretty high volume!
[quote]Hold Up wrote:
My right ear is pretty much toast. My left ear is good. Weird thing though. Some people I can hear crystal clear, clear across the room. Others…right in front of me and I don’t have a clue. Certain tones, or pitches perhaps. I’m tone deaf, that must be what it is.
Regardless. I run my headphones up to about 80-85% to drown the background noise so I can concentrate. Only when I really need a boost to help lift the weight will I take it up higher than that.
Hope that helps.
[/quote] Well played sir
[quote]…I guess it does depend on what you’re training for and how enhanced your supplements are…since those do allow for a greater amount of volume… and it takes a refined periodization plan or system to make it all work without “injury” or overtraining…especially if you’re taking PEDs in regards to the injuries resulting from too much said volume. I’d like to see hard data versus anecdoctal on injuries for steroid users.
Meaning…I think there is a prime zone or area on the curve for volume in terms of power lifting, olympic lifting, etc… after all…for athletes developing Speed…too much volume is a Killer. But there are target areas for TUT (total time from a number of sets at certain tempos) to promote muscle development. At certain intensities that would imply a range of volume. Then how often you can do that based on a “plan” may give some sort of answer. And you can then plot your volumes and should see a a nice upward slant (overall) and if you keep that volume in a tight channel type of formation… You can also plot other data points along with it…come up with all sorts of mental masturbated variations or derivatives.[/quote] Good info. These are the principles, but this is pretty much learned (as clearly, recovery clearly depends on everything you mentioned… TUT is hard to measure with different lifting styles of course).
[quote]It all looks like a perfect stock chart to me nowadays. Tight channels. Like bounces off of upward sloping moving averages…little volatility. Or, base on bases…but they all add up to upward sloping channels…and try not to have a blow off parabolic move. Similar consequences…what goes up must come down.[/quote] You’ve lost us. Are you back to humour?
[quote]Anyway, Its late for me, and I’m thinking out loud…so I hope that made sense.[/quote] Mostly
[quote]For bodybuilding “trainers” such as the some of the authors on this site, I bet their “plans” seek to achieve this. If not at least on “feel”, they have a target amount of sets, reps, at certain tempos…for a series of workouts.[/quote] That’s kind of where I was going above when I was talking about the principles being learned…
[quote]And then again…you can roughly figure out your muscle fibre (fast/slow) makeup for each body part by how many reps one can do of 80% of 1 rep max…and use that as a guide for volume…for bodybuilding. Or at least that used to be the consensus. Then again, its not rocket science to understand the difference in calf muscle fibre comp versus your lats and the differences each need.[/quote] To add to this, you can generalize about volume for a given exercise as well as ideal rep ranges per set for a given muscle, but this can vary widely from person to person. Some bodybuilders gain size while dieting down, all while doing rep ranges of 18-25. Go figure.
[quote]I forget his name…but I used to workout at a gym in TN that had a top level bodybuilder, former Mr. Olympia, Universe or at least the American version (I should look this up). Anyway…at the time dude was “old”, at least to me (mid 1990s), and he ALWAYS did 400 reps in his workout. Didn’t matter what it was. That was just his thing. About 3-4 days a week. Come in…400 reps. At least that’s what he did at the time. Made sense then, still does now actually.
EDIT: Going to figure out that guys name. Bothering me now.
EDIT 2: I previously had said it was Jerry Daniels. But Wiki says he’s dead, sort of. But now I know for a fact he’s alive and well, in his 60s. Talked to someone who saw him recently, so…go figure. [/quote]Seems an arbitrary figure (400 reps), but having concrete daily goals can prove very effective. Stick-tuitiveness + OCD = BBing success? Yeah something like that.
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
[quote]Hold Up wrote:
It all looks like a perfect stock chart to me nowadays. Tight channels. Like bounces off of upward sloping moving averages…little volatility. Or, base on bases…but they all add up to upward sloping channels…and try not to have a blow off parabolic move. Similar consequences…what goes up must come down.[/quote] You’ve lost us. Are you back to humour?[/quote]
Ok. Let me try to explain. I spend most of my time trading the markets. One easy, well-behaved trade is what might be termed a rising channel. A trading issues price will sometimes fall within rising lines, an upper trend line and a lower trend line. Now, lets make a training comparison. Lets take a Bodybuilding “System” for example. I’m not referring to a plan, periodization plan, or a Phase I, II, III, IV plan where one focuses on weaknesses at the start and then strengths as you progress and end with some sort of peaking.
Something like what is given in Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach by Fred Hatfield.
A - Light Training Day followed by 2 or 3 days rest
B - Moderate Day followed by 3-4 days rest
C - Heavy Training Day followed by 4-5 days rest
One would do a constant rotation of these for each body section with varying rest periods for each.
A - B - C - B - A - B - C - B - A - B - A - B - C - B - A… and on and on.
Once a trainee has gone through a few iterations of this you can plot the A workouts, B workouts, and C workouts with respective intensities, volumes, etc. Connect all of your A data points and connect all of your C data points and there you should find an upper line and a lower line. Higher Highs (C’s) and Higher Lows (A’s) The B’s should fall within those two, and are the crux of your training system actually. Each line should be rising over time with your intensities and your volumes resulting. Hatfield provides a set/rep schematic and groups of movements to choose from but that’s not important really. As long as the intent is met in your training you should be able to data mine it.
Now…An intermediate to Advanced person should be able to gather a lot of information from this. But my point with the correlation to a well-behaved trading vehicle would be what happens when your A’s start to break below the lower trend line…or, if your C’s start to break above the Upper Trend Line. A parabolic move is great but should warrant great caution…just as well as the inability to maintain the % progression should be a sign. The preference is to stay within the lines as long as possible. If a line is broken then that is a tell sign and one should pay attention. Broken lines could happen for any of a number of reasons…but regardless, Caution is warranted. In general terms there would be nothing wrong with the System per se… but sometimes a plateau, a new base…is a good thing, a new foundation to launch from much like a well-behaved stock price for example. A parabolic move in the beginning of a cycle is not unwarranted…but later in time a move like that can be disastrous and hard to overcome.
In some Sport Training Systems if you hit a new PR or max in your training you get sent home for fear of “blowing up” and ruining your training for the next few weeks. You can lose continuity or even a psychological edge. On another note if you come in and can’t hit your prescribed numbers for the day…well, you haven’t recovered from previous sessions…and you get sent home for that too (just not the same warm & fuzzy feeling)
So… a properly implemented System with a well documented Training journal should show you when you’re hitting too much volume, or even too little. I know a Powerlifter that used the same System for about 4-5 years and took his Squat from low to mid 400s to mid 900s. Same System…built in rest periods, kept the mind fresh with constant new highs each week in his various rotation of workouts, low injury rate… Of course, some tinkering here and there… but, it works. Better than being a method whore.