most guys that i talk to say that naturally you can only gain like a pound and a half a month but i’m not to sure about that.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
JMAX wrote:
Well I could say maybe 1lb of weight gain per week is a decent guideline, under most circumstances, and too much more than that is likely just fat gain…or I could just get all snarky and tell you to read lots of biology books…take your pick 
It’s funny that you’ve missed the point completely. [/quote]
It’s funny that you’ve missed MY point completely.
As always, there is no lack of criticism and bashing on these boards. Never ceases to amaze how many people come on to say what so-and-so posted is stupid or wrong…but how few give constructive or helpful advice. Don’t limit yourself…sure that’s a good general statement but not very useful for the poor chap either.
With this advice the OP could eat 20,000 cals/day and hopefully gain over 100 lbs of muscle per month. I see Bonez managed to cut down my post - falsely assuming that I failed to miss the painfully simple and obvious point made - yet had nothing constructive to say. What ProfX said was a great point, but how about some other people following that up with a little realistic guidance…asking details about his current staus or routine if necessary? No…much better to take pot-shots and make vague comments you might see on a bumper sticker
Do you want a little cheese with your whine?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Do you want a little cheese with your whine?[/quote]
I’ll take some cheese
I’m heading straight back to my log and staying there after this…
What is a good number to go up every week weight wise ?
Or do i just keep eating same amount for a set time ?
And yes i’m a beginner so not looking to restart the debate, some kind people set me up with a routine and my nutrition is set, jut unaware when to eat more.
[quote]JMAX wrote:
As always, there is no lack of criticism and bashing on these boards. Never ceases to amaze how many people come on to say what so-and-so posted is stupid or wrong…but how few give constructive or helpful advice. Don’t limit yourself…sure that’s a good general statement but not very useful for the poor chap either.
With this advice the OP could eat 20,000 cals/day and hopefully gain over 100 lbs of muscle per month. I see Bonez managed to cut down my post - falsely assuming that I failed to miss the painfully simple and obvious point made - yet had nothing constructive to say. What ProfX said was a great point, but how about some other people following that up with a little realistic guidance…asking details about his current staus or routine if necessary? No…much better to take pot-shots and make vague comments you might see on a bumper sticker ;)[/quote]
This question is too simple to require anything more of a response than what Prof X said.
His routine and nutrition do not have anyhting to do with the fact that one can not predict how much muscle can be gained in a defined period of time.
[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
I’m heading straight back to my log and staying there after this…
What is a good number to go up every week weight wise ?
Or do i just keep eating same amount for a set time ?
And yes i’m a beginner so not looking to restart the debate, some kind people set me up with a routine and my nutrition is set, jut unaware when to eat more.[/quote]
When yuo reach a time that you stop gaining weight add around 300 calories to your diet. Or go 5% above what you were eating. If you don’t store fat easily you may be able to add more calories. If you tend to store fat easily try 200 calories.
[quote]SmallToBig wrote:
I’m heading straight back to my log and staying there after this…
What is a good number to go up every week weight wise ?
Or do i just keep eating same amount for a set time ?
And yes i’m a beginner so not looking to restart the debate, some kind people set me up with a routine and my nutrition is set, jut unaware when to eat more.[/quote]
Just concentrate on beating the logbook and adjust your diet if the mirror shows that you are looking fatter and fatter every day.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Just concentrate on beating the logbook and adjust your diet if the mirror shows that you are looking fatter and fatter every day.
[/quote]
Don’t really put on that much fat ill be buying a camera soon for my month by month comparisons!
And thanks once again for the help.
My abbreviated guide to bulking.
*1. Are you too fat?
If yes, lean down first.
If no, go to 2.
-
Gaining weight?
If no, increase your kcal(200-500kcal).
If yes, go to 3. -
Gaining bodyfat too quickly?
If yes, add more activity(extra walking/jogging, wear a weight vest, park further, etc…)
If no, go to 1.
*obviously, how fat is too fat is highly debatable and ultimately up to you.
Just my opinion on how to bulk efficiently.
lim@infinity
My opinion:
Bodybuilder A does the old-school bulk for 20 weeks and puts on 10lbs of muscle and 5 pounds of fat. Add this to his initial fat and he’s up around 15% bodyfat. So he has to cut longer, more drastically and after his cut his total muscle gain is down to 8lbs.
Bodybuilder B follows a restrained approach adding muscle while maintaing 8-10% bodyfat. He puts it on more slowly but begins his cut a few weeks later than Bodybuilder A. He doesn’t have to cut as drastically and doesn’t lose much if any muscle during his cut. His total muscle gain after cut is also 8lbs.
Anyway, I just pulled this example out of my ass to show there are many ways to achieve the same goal.
The problem with measuring body composition is the error involved. The mirror (take pictures) and the iron never lie.
If you’re getting stronger you’re probably adding muscle.
If you look better in the mirror (take pictures) then you are probably improving your body composition.
If you’re asking questions then you aren’t happy with your progress. Find out what isn’t working and change it. Either your training intensity sucks (intensity is in your mind not on the bar) or your diet sucks. I’d bet more on the training intensity. Stimilate the muscle so that it will be forced to grow. When we first start to lift this is easy because every stimilus is new and causes overload. As are bodies learn more this overload becomes harder to achieve so we can spend day after day week after week just maintaining what we are doing.
Find new realms of pain. Find new barriers to break through. Drop the fucking bar on your chest. Drop the fucking bar off your back. Go until you can’t go no more and then go again. It’s not 4 sets of 10 or rest-pause for 20 or 100 rep sets or any other predetermined program that will make you bigger and stronger (unless you’re a complete noob). It’s pure crazed masochism that will lead your muscles to grow and your lifts to get bigger.
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
My opinion:
Bodybuilder A does the old-school bulk for 20 weeks and puts on 10lbs of muscle and 5 pounds of fat. Add this to his initial fat and he’s up around 15% bodyfat. So he has to cut longer, more drastically and after his cut his total muscle gain is down to 8lbs.
Bodybuilder B follows a restrained approach adding muscle while maintaing 8-10% bodyfat. He puts it on more slowly but begins his cut a few weeks later than Bodybuilder A. He doesn’t have to cut as drastically and doesn’t lose much if any muscle during his cut. His total muscle gain after cut is also 8lbs.
Anyway, I just pulled this example out of my ass to show there are many ways to achieve the same goal.
The problem with measuring body composition is the error involved. The mirror (take pictures) and the iron never lie.
If you’re getting stronger you’re probably adding muscle.
If you look better in the mirror (take pictures) then you are probably improving your body composition.
If you’re asking questions then you aren’t happy with your progress. Find out what isn’t working and change it. Either your training intensity sucks (intensity is in your mind not on the bar) or your diet sucks. I’d bet more on the training intensity. Stimilate the muscle so that it will be forced to grow. When we first start to lift this is easy because every stimilus is new and causes overload. As are bodies learn more this overload becomes harder to achieve so we can spend day after day week after week just maintaining what we are doing.
Find new realms of pain. Find new barriers to break through. Drop the fucking bar on your chest. Drop the fucking bar off your back. Go until you can’t go no more and then go again. It’s not 4 sets of 10 or rest-pause for 20 or 100 rep sets or any other predetermined program that will make you bigger and stronger (unless you’re a complete noob). It’s pure crazed masochism that will lead your muscles to grow and your lifts to get bigger.
[/quote]
I’ve been on this site since 2000. Not ONE of the guys who “gains slowly” or who is that concerned with body fat has gained more muscle overall than those who went ahead and bulked up intelligently…assuming they had decent genetics to begin with.
The guy being more restrictive with his food intake will NOT be able to take advantage of growth spurts to their fullest potential when they occur. It isn’t like you can predict when your body will supercompensate the most…therefore, the guy making damn sure he eats enough will gain more muscle than the guy that worried about eating too much.
Your scenario where some bodybuilder diets down and loses most of his gains is flawed SINCE ANYONE WITH SENSE AND AN EXTREME LONG TERM GOAL WON’T BE DIETING DOWN THAT DAMN OFTEN. If over 5 years I put on 60lbs but have to diet 20 off, the chances of the guy “taking it slow” having gained that much muscle in that time frame is LOW.
We can discuss theory all day long but it does NOT pan out like that in the real world.
The biggest guys on this site are NOT the ones who had a “restrained approach”.
Do people like you really think that is just a coincidence?
So just to be clear always er on the side of over eating… and put in cardio if your gaining to much ?
Is it always the option eat more and put in more cardio sessions to compensate rather than eat less food ?
Do i have it about right… i apologise it must be pretty repeditive for people like you by now but it’s the 1st time i’ve had to come accross this scenario.
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
My opinion:
Bodybuilder A does the old-school bulk for 20 weeks and puts on 10lbs of muscle and 5 pounds of fat. Add this to his initial fat and he’s up around 15% bodyfat. So he has to cut longer, more drastically and after his cut his total muscle gain is down to 8lbs.
[/quote]
Your example doesn’t make sense.
He adds five (5) lb of fat and this requires, relative to a different plan a substantially longer, more drastic cut??? That results in losing 12 more lb of muscle than if he hadn’t gained those 5 lb of added fat??
Sorry, that makes no sense. If you have experienced this, you did one or more things quite wrong.
I believe you have fat paranoia.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I believe you have fat paranoia.
[/quote]
…as does at least ONE of the authors here.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Do you want a little cheese with your whine?[/quote]
Maybe some real swiss, or mozzarrella 
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Bodybuilder A does the old-school bulk for 20 weeks and puts on 10lbs of muscle and 5 pounds of fat. Add this to his initial fat and he’s up around 15% bodyfat. So he has to cut longer, more drastically and after his cut his total muscle gain is down to 8lbs.
Bodybuilder B follows a restrained approach adding muscle while maintaing 8-10% bodyfat. He puts it on more slowly but begins his cut a few weeks later than Bodybuilder A. He doesn’t have to cut as drastically and doesn’t lose much if any muscle during his cut. His total muscle gain after cut is also 8lbs.
[/quote]
My opinion, bodybuilder A gets bored waiting for bodybuilder B to catch up on total lean body mass gained, keeps going for longer cause by this time he isn’t even using B as a training partner any more cause B is so much weaker, eventually gets to a point where he’s only a couple of % above B for body fat anyway but outweighs him by 50 lbs, most of which is lean body mass. Then they line up a comp, cause they’re still friends even though B is insanely jealous of A by this point, but only A competes and B acts as the supporting bumboy in the crowd wishing he had actually trained right, eaten enough, and not followed the keep it clean fitness manual.
But that’s just my opinion.
[quote]pasteee wrote:
I’ve been looking for that T-Nation article (via searchbox) discussing the max amount of muscle gain per week (i think it’s something like .25 lbs)…Does anybody know which article im talking about???
thank you[/quote]
lol, levron is doing near on 5lbs a week atm! genetic freak, assisted or not, makes no difference ya can’t read into this “you can only gain so much, over so n so period” nothing is set!!