How Long Will it Take?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Hi all.

I’ve been lifting for just over 2 years. I’ve gone from 78kg to 106kg, and have managed the following lifts totally raw and drug free.

Bench: 145kg
Squat: 205kg
Deadlift: 230kg
Clean & Jerk: 117.5kg
Push Press: 120kg

I have just started proper olympic lifting training at a club with commonwealth medal winning coaches. Currently 3 days a week.

Now my question is with my current level of strength how long should it take for me to achive a 140kg clean and jerk and a 100kg snatch?

Thanks

Nick

2

Who cares? It is honestly not an important question, and no one can give you ‘the right’ answer. You are very strong, and as long as you keep practicing the lifts and go heavy, you’ll get those numbers.

3

I care.

If its going to take me 2-3 years honestly I wont dedicate as much time to it and will continue to simply enjoy it occasionally. But if 6-12 months is a realistic timeframe I will stick with the new club and 3 sessions a week.

The reason I ask is I’m switching gyms and training styles and O lifting is very different to what I’m use to. I cant get results with simply brute strength and effort, the subtlties and technical aspects of the O lifts can be frustrating. I’m not enjoying it as much as my previous training. If it will take years to attain the 100/140 level then honestly I will ditch it. Hench my question.

4

you have WAY more then enough strength, i have snatched 115 and 137.5 as a 94 Junior lifer (not crazy by any standards) but I can only squat 165, front squat 150, and i would be lucky to bench 115. just work on your technique and be patient and diligent. If you stress about it to much it wont happen, but with strength like yours it should not take long at all!!

5

dude how can u push press 120 and only clean and jerk 117.5?

i dont think it will take u that long. the first time i tried snatches i could do 70kg and my other lifts arnt as high as yours except the deadlift

6

The push press was out of a rack. I have cleaned 120 but it was on about the 10th attempt and I was way to tired to attempt the jerk. With the jerk my form really drops off after around 105kg. Its really technique that lets me down, strength is fine.

Oh and the deadlift was done almost 12 months ago, all other PB’s are in the last 8 weeks. I hope to improve the deadlift when I test 1rms again shortly.

Thanks for your opinions.

7

[quote]NPR wrote:
I care.

If its going to take me 2-3 years honestly I wont dedicate as much time to it and will continue to simply enjoy it occasionally. But if 6-12 months is a realistic timeframe I will stick with the new club and 3 sessions a week.

The reason I ask is I’m switching gyms and training styles and O lifting is very different to what I’m use to. I cant get results with simply brute strength and effort, the subtlties and technical aspects of the O lifts can be frustrating. I’m not enjoying it as much as my previous training. If it will take years to attain the 100/140 level then honestly I will ditch it. Hench my question.[/quote]

You are saying you have elite coaches, yet still have to come to an internet forum to ask this question? Are they not able to give you an accurate timeline?

8

They said everyone is different and progression will depend on how quickly I can adapt to the different style. But I didn’t ask them about specific numbers.

I saw the new section of the forum and thought I would seek more opinions.

The coach’s are Robert Kabbas and Ivan Katz if your intersted.

9

As others have said, strength is not your bottleneck in reaching 140kg C&J, it’s technique. As you practice more under supervision, you will be consistently amazed how small breakthroughs in your technique translate into remarkable improvements in your totals.

Estimation is actually part of my profession (software engineering). The rule of thumb is to estimate the size of the project, then the effort required for it, and only then can you estimate schedule (and cost).

So a better question than “how long will it take?” in calendar time might be “how many repetitions of the motion under supervision are required?”

As a proxy, you might adopt hours spent training, or total training sessions.

10

[quote]NPR wrote:
I cant get results with simply brute strength and effort, the subtlties and technical aspects of the O lifts can be frustrating. I’m not enjoying it as much as my previous training. If it will take years to attain the 100/140 level then honestly I will ditch it. Hench my question.[/quote]

I think you got your answer right there. Lift because you want to lift and you enjoy it not because you want to meet some sort of superficial standard. If you find it frustrating then do some other type of training. Personally, I started lifting in July and I dream about getting 120/150 but I know it will take me awhile to get there. My coach has said it probably takes a good 2 years of consistent practice to really develop the proper technique.

On another note:

There are quite a few good studies by these researchers called Ericsson & Charness who claim that innate talent doesn’t exist, i.e. no one is born gifted at a sport or ability. The people who we see as being the tops in their field are generally the ones who have practiced the most. They did studies on musicians and found that it takes about 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to become an expert. Obviously, you probably don’t want to be an expert but you can assume that to reach any significant level of ability e.g. local champion, state champion, national champion. Another thing that they found was that the more you practiced the better you became (but not if you practiced foolishly it needed to be good deliberate practice) and the better you became the more time you had to practice. Thus, the experts really start to pull away from the rest of the competitors the better they get.

If you think about Olympic Lifting, maybe you have some kids start to lift at 14, 3 times a week. Some really enjoy it and practice consistently, others screw around. The ones who practice consistently get better faster and then get more input from coaches (which is based on another study done on teachers: if you tell a teacher a student is gifted, they spend more time on that student and the student actually does better in school). With more input from coaches they get better and better. Then they start training 4 times a week, 5 times a week, 6 times a week, 7 times a week, 8 times a week, 9 times a week, 10 times a week. They spend more and more time practicing and they keep getting better and now they are around 20-21 and they start to be internationally competitive. What happens then? They get paid to train in most countries and then it’s just all practice.

Point being: If you want to be good at anything it’s going to take time. How long it will take will depend on how dedicated you are to your training and probably in Oly lifting how good your coaches are.

11

How is your flexibility?

I noticed you didn’t put up your Snatch lift, that will help give ua a basis but a 100/140 is a huge difference between them.

I’d say 8months if you have no flexibility issues.

How high can you jump at the moment? Can you grab a 10ft rim in bball? Your plenty strong for the lifts allt hat is required is

flexibility
technique
power

I’ll make a wild guess of 12months. 20kg on to both lifts in your first year is going to be tough even if your plenty strong training 3x a week. If you did 4x a week it would still be close.

I’ve been around a lot of lifters and it’s rare you will find someone that will stack on 20kg on to each lift in a 12month period no matter how strong they started up. The technique is a learning curve with the flexibility. If you were to train 4-5x that would be different but still tough imo.

Koing

12

[quote]Louchuck wrote:
NPR wrote:
I cant get results with simply brute strength and effort, the subtlties and technical aspects of the O lifts can be frustrating. I’m not enjoying it as much as my previous training. If it will take years to attain the 100/140 level then honestly I will ditch it. Hench my question.

I think you got your answer right there. Lift because you want to lift and you enjoy it not because you want to meet some sort of superficial standard. If you find it frustrating then do some other type of training. Personally, I started lifting in July and I dream about getting 120/150 but I know it will take me awhile to get there. My coach has said it probably takes a good 2 years of consistent practice to really develop the proper technique.

On another note:

There are quite a few good studies by these researchers called Ericsson & Charness who claim that innate talent doesn’t exist, i.e. no one is born gifted at a sport or ability. The people who we see as being the tops in their field are generally the ones who have practiced the most. They did studies on musicians and found that it takes about 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to become an expert. Obviously, you probably don’t want to be an expert but you can assume that to reach any significant level of ability e.g. local champion, state champion, national champion. Another thing that they found was that the more you practiced the better you became (but not if you practiced foolishly it needed to be good deliberate practice) and the better you became the more time you had to practice. Thus, the experts really start to pull away from the rest of the competitors the better they get.

If you think about Olympic Lifting, maybe you have some kids start to lift at 14, 3 times a week. Some really enjoy it and practice consistently, others screw around. The ones who practice consistently get better faster and then get more input from coaches (which is based on another study done on teachers: if you tell a teacher a student is gifted, they spend more time on that student and the student actually does better in school). With more input from coaches they get better and better. Then they start training 4 times a week, 5 times a week, 6 times a week, 7 times a week, 8 times a week, 9 times a week, 10 times a week. They spend more and more time practicing and they keep getting better and now they are around 20-21 and they start to be internationally competitive. What happens then? They get paid to train in most countries and then it’s just all practice.

Point being: If you want to be good at anything it’s going to take time. How long it will take will depend on how dedicated you are to your training and probably in Oly lifting how good your coaches are.
[/quote]

I read it takes about 7000hrs to be an Elite WeightLifter, Elite would be making a World Championship A standard comp.

Koing

13

This question has way to many variables to factor in to give you a good estimate. How dedicated you are, your flexibility and coordination, how attentive your coaches are, injuries, etc etc can all affect the outcome. That being said, in an ideal situation with good coaching and your current strength levels, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to snatch bodyweight within a couple months.

14

[quote]Koing wrote:
Louchuck wrote:
NPR wrote:
I cant get results with simply brute strength and effort, the subtlties and technical aspects of the O lifts can be frustrating. I’m not enjoying it as much as my previous training. If it will take years to attain the 100/140 level then honestly I will ditch it. Hench my question.

I think you got your answer right there. Lift because you want to lift and you enjoy it not because you want to meet some sort of superficial standard. If you find it frustrating then do some other type of training. Personally, I started lifting in July and I dream about getting 120/150 but I know it will take me awhile to get there. My coach has said it probably takes a good 2 years of consistent practice to really develop the proper technique.

On another note:

There are quite a few good studies by these researchers called Ericsson & Charness who claim that innate talent doesn’t exist, i.e. no one is born gifted at a sport or ability. The people who we see as being the tops in their field are generally the ones who have practiced the most. They did studies on musicians and found that it takes about 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to become an expert. Obviously, you probably don’t want to be an expert but you can assume that to reach any significant level of ability e.g. local champion, state champion, national champion. Another thing that they found was that the more you practiced the better you became (but not if you practiced foolishly it needed to be good deliberate practice) and the better you became the more time you had to practice. Thus, the experts really start to pull away from the rest of the competitors the better they get.

If you think about Olympic Lifting, maybe you have some kids start to lift at 14, 3 times a week. Some really enjoy it and practice consistently, others screw around. The ones who practice consistently get better faster and then get more input from coaches (which is based on another study done on teachers: if you tell a teacher a student is gifted, they spend more time on that student and the student actually does better in school). With more input from coaches they get better and better. Then they start training 4 times a week, 5 times a week, 6 times a week, 7 times a week, 8 times a week, 9 times a week, 10 times a week. They spend more and more time practicing and they keep getting better and now they are around 20-21 and they start to be internationally competitive. What happens then? They get paid to train in most countries and then it’s just all practice.

Point being: If you want to be good at anything it’s going to take time. How long it will take will depend on how dedicated you are to your training and probably in Oly lifting how good your coaches are.

I read it takes about 7000hrs to be an Elite WeightLifter, Elite would be making a World Championship A standard comp.

Koing[/quote]

I’m interested. Where did you get this info?

15

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
I’m interested. Where did you get this info?[/quote]

For the best results you need to have access to research journals but for a taste there is this:
http://www.jimdavies.org/summaries/ericsson1997.html
http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=pPMegEex_SkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA21&dq=Deliberate+practice+and+acquisition+of+expert+performance:+a+general+overview&ots=SKy2zb5tQF&sig=_GX2oXgf55cveV3bURkLvhgYABE#v=onepage&q=Deliberate%20practice%20and%20acquisition%20of%20expert%20performance%3A%20a%20general%20overview&f=false

If you do have access to research journals check these out:

Ericcson, K.A. & Charness, N. (1994). Expert performance: its structure and acquisition. American Psychologist, 49, 725-747

Ericsson, K.A. & Ward, P. (2007) Capturing the naturally occurring superior performance of experts in the laboratory: Toward a science of expert and exceptional performance. Current Directions in Psychological Science 16, 346â??350.

It’s quite an interesting subject.

16

[quote]Louchuck wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:
I’m interested. Where did you get this info?

For the best results you need to have access to research journals but for a taste there is this:
http://www.jimdavies.org/summaries/ericsson1997.html
http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=pPMegEex_SkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA21&dq=Deliberate+practice+and+acquisition+of+expert+performance:+a+general+overview&ots=SKy2zb5tQF&sig=_GX2oXgf55cveV3bURkLvhgYABE#v=onepage&q=Deliberate%20practice%20and%20acquisition%20of%20expert%20performance%3A%20a%20general%20overview&f=false

If you do have access to research journals check these out:

Ericcson, K.A. & Charness, N. (1994). Expert performance: its structure and acquisition. American Psychologist, 49, 725-747

Ericsson, K.A. & Ward, P. (2007) Capturing the naturally occurring superior performance of experts in the laboratory: Toward a science of expert and exceptional performance. Current Directions in Psychological Science 16, 346â??350.

It’s quite an interesting subject.
[/quote]

Ahhhh… This is kinda like teaching someone how to be a doctor even though the one being taught wants to be an ophthalmologist. I need something more specific. Either way, thanks.

17

[quote]Koing wrote:
How is your flexibility?

I noticed you didn’t put up your Snatch lift, that will help give ua a basis but a 100/140 is a huge difference between them.

I’d say 8months if you have no flexibility issues.

How high can you jump at the moment? Can you grab a 10ft rim in bball? Your plenty strong for the lifts allt hat is required is

flexibility
technique
power

I’ll make a wild guess of 12months. 20kg on to both lifts in your first year is going to be tough even if your plenty strong training 3x a week. If you did 4x a week it would still be close.

I’ve been around a lot of lifters and it’s rare you will find someone that will stack on 20kg on to each lift in a 12month period no matter how strong they started up. The technique is a learning curve with the flexibility. If you were to train 4-5x that would be different but still tough imo.

Koing[/quote]

Flexibility is very good. I need to do a comprehensive strech before and after (particularly hammy’s) but its very good overall.

Grab at 10" ring no drama.

I have never done a 1rm snatch but I was doing very easy triples with 62.5kg (powersnatch) yesterday.

18

[quote]NPR wrote:
Koing wrote:
How is your flexibility?

I noticed you didn’t put up your Snatch lift, that will help give ua a basis but a 100/140 is a huge difference between them.

I’d say 8months if you have no flexibility issues.

How high can you jump at the moment? Can you grab a 10ft rim in bball? Your plenty strong for the lifts allt hat is required is

flexibility
technique
power

I’ll make a wild guess of 12months. 20kg on to both lifts in your first year is going to be tough even if your plenty strong training 3x a week. If you did 4x a week it would still be close.

I’ve been around a lot of lifters and it’s rare you will find someone that will stack on 20kg on to each lift in a 12month period no matter how strong they started up. The technique is a learning curve with the flexibility. If you were to train 4-5x that would be different but still tough imo.

Koing

Flexibility is very good. I need to do a comprehensive strech before and after (particularly hammy’s) but its very good overall.

Grab at 10" ring no drama.

I have never done a 1rm snatch but I was doing very easy triples with 62.5kg (powersnatch) yesterday.[/quote]

How tall are you? Power is good if your not hugely tall but we already know your plenty strong.

I think people are grossly under estimating the time and effort needed to Snatch 100kg or C&J 140kg which is a lot tougher then a 100kg Snatch imo.

The PS don’t count, as you won’t be PS 100kg. You need to focus on 'full Snatch’s if you want to full snatch big as to change from PS to full snatch will be near on impossible if you decide to do that later on. It is VERy tough to change back if you only do PS.

Post some videos and that’ll get a better indication of where your at. But I’ll say a ball park 20kg on to each of your lifts in a 12month period and you are doing VERY WELL imo. VERY WELL. I’ve seen very few people add 20kg on to each lift in a year.

ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT and are you going to have one dude off the net say YOU CAN’T DO IT?! F0cking show him wrong :smiley:

Koing

19

I’m around 6"1 - 6"2

Thanks for your help. I’ll update the thread as to how i progress.

20

[quote]NPR wrote:
I’m around 6"1 - 6"2

Thanks for your help. I’ll update the thread as to how i progress.[/quote]

Shit that’s tall. From my experience watching other athletes train it’s hard for you tall cats to get the snatch down. But keep at it and your levers might just take to it depending on arm length and such and such.

The best idea is to get a coach. Without one i highly doubt you will progress at a significant rate.

Good luck sir,

-chris