[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I’m calling bullshit on the whole ‘lean bulk’ thing, and as much as I regret doing it, I’m calling bullshit on Stu’s replies to this thread. Stu clearly concedes that he built his substrate carring extra bodyweight and lifting heavy. Now; while standing at the top of the stairs he recommends others follow a different path. He would like everyone (himself included)to believe that he would have reached the point he is at without the ‘bulking’ and ‘top-end’ work that litters his past. Poppycock! If Stu had never ran his weight up into the 225 range his stage weight would be 165 not 176. Of course we’ll never know; he did it the traditional way and make any claim he would like at this point. When Stu states that a lifter reaches a point where the extra-body weight interferes with progress, he is correct. The idea that anyone his advocating becoming a fatass is false, but only those in the sweet spot of there maturation cycle(and they would have probably added that LBM without the training) and the genetically blessed are going to add much LBM while in ‘all abs in’ condition. I’ve been training for over twenty five years and every single ‘big’ person I have ever known (male & female alike) got there the same way.
Disclaimer: nothing contained in my post should be interpreted to mean that I am not a fan of Stu. [/quote]
Lol, no offense taken brother, we’re discussing approaches and concepts, and I think everyone on here knows that I try to always remain respectful and am certainly not one to throw my accomplishments in to support my thinking on everything.
I’ve been very open about the fact that I got my bodyweight up fairly high, because I was led to believe by all the “big guys” in the gym that it was the surest way to get big. However, I’m also honest enough to admit that I certainly didn’t sport the musculature that I thought that I would at that weight, and it had nothing to do with bodyfat levels. Also, realize that this was in my late 20’s, bordering 30, so I can’t look for the ‘favorable hormonal environment’ that we always attribute to newbs, or younger trainers.
The majority of my serious gains came probably from around 33-38. During that time, I don’t think I ever let myself get past 210, more likely closer to 205, BUT my composition sure changed a hell of a lot each year as I understood and focused more on aspects of training and especially DIET that I hadn’t before. I didn’t understand that the human body is a hormonal machine, and you can’t force a car to suddenly get used to holding more fuel so that it can go faster by continually forcing it in.
I still love being able to say that I “hit 220”, just as much as I love being able to say that I “used to bench 385”, BUT, I had less muscle at 220 than I did at 205 (think about that!), just as much as my chest became much more developed when I stopped benching so heavy. The point of this, is that I gained a better understanding of making things work for my goals. That includes using food as much as it includes using the weights.
S[/quote]
I appreciate you exercising restraint where accomplishments are concerned, It will allow me to do the same.
I believe that the majority of your serious gains took place between 33-38. I believe this is common with natural lifters and is the result of the years under your belt, not the transformation of your training approach (although changes in diet are critical). I made my best strength/size gains during the same period, however I had my nutrition right for many years prior. The question that will always remain un-answered is…without that initial decade would you have made the ultimate progress you have or is that experience a prerequiste? I believe the later, perhaps you believe otherwise. Several times you indicate that as time went by you learned more and became better at directing your actions toward your goal and that is how it should be in all cases, no? I was given very specific guidelines for bulking and the word ‘force’ was never used, perhaps the lifters you met early on were not as detail specific.
These are the guidelines I was given in 1986. There weren’t many opportunities for tested BB then.
a bulk meant a 10-15% increase in bodyweight over a lifters known lean weight. For beginner and intermediate lifters weight is held for 18-24 months while trying to become as strong as possible in a ‘given’ rep range. From this point the period of gradual restriction/increase workload should last no longer than 8-12 weeks.
No serious coach or trainer I have ever known advocated adding scale weight for it’s own sake.