The body obviously adapts to conditions you regularly impose on it, but I’m failing to see how carrying more fat will lead to the body’s ability to carry more muscle? I understand the body has programmed set points thought the hypothalamus for weight, blood pressure, body temp, etc. And you have to get your body to accept a higher bw set point to be able to maintain a higher weight…however
If your hormones won’t support gains in muscle mass when you give it enough to grow, why would giving it additional nutrients do more?
I don’t even science, but I really don’t understand the ‘get fat to eatablish a higher set point thing.’
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
The body obviously adapts to conditions you regularly impose on it, but I’m failing to see how carrying more fat will lead to the body’s ability to carry more muscle?
If your hormones won’t support gains in muscle mass when you give it enough to grow, why would giving it additional nutrients do more?
I don’t even science, but I really don’t understand the ‘get fat to eatablish a higher set point thing.’
[/quote]
Who is saying this?
The only benefit of carrying more fat may be to the skinnier lifter who may gain leverage form it…or the guy really pushing new heavier weights when it comes to joint lubrication.
I also had a theory of fascial stretching that I have gone into many times before.
I am not aware of someone telling people to get fat to establish a setpoint. The goal is to establish that weight set point with as much MUSCLE as possible.
OBVIOUSLY, realistically this will not lead to ALL or ONLY muscle being gained.
gaining fat will NOT stretch the fascia that you’re looking to stretch. That’s completely wrong.
However, the body does have a “set point” of sorts in many ways. The biggest determiners of the set point we’re looking at are training and diet. That’s why people hire prep coaches - those guys really know how to manipulate food across time and help the trainee retain most of their strength while cutting.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
gaining fat will NOT stretch the fascia that you’re looking to stretch. That’s completely wrong.
However, the body does have a “set point” of sorts in many ways. The biggest determiners of the set point we’re looking at are training and diet. That’s why people hire prep coaches - those guys really know how to manipulate food across time and help the trainee retain most of their strength while cutting.[/quote]
A lot of that tracking and manipulating deals with hormonal shifts. Maintaining a somewhat higher degree of fat mass (those interested can argue the specifics to death if they’d like) will actually worsen your hormonal profile, making it more difficult to build, and hence maintain, muscle.
I tried figuring out the quote unquote thing, but this just got messy, so here:
PX:It’s a good thing no one said that it would speed up the rate of anabolism.
What it will do is make sure there is enough food when needed when the body is ready to grow. That is all “bulking up” really is, nothing more nothing less.
ME:So if something is not speeding up the potential for muscle growth, I fail to see the point of maintaining a false weight for those who are physique conscious. To be honest, as much as I may have claimed the extra weight helped support my joints earlier on, it’s more than likely an overrated excuse when we’re talking about the average gym rat. Especially when you can freely see how many people take this to extremes, and can actually limit their growth in the process.
PX:-will likely also lubricate joints better to handle heavier weight and add to leverage. I am sure there are more benefits to bulking up if I wanted to add all possibilities.
ME:But again, is this really an anabolic benefit of maintaining a false scale weight?
PX: This isn’t about “feel” as much as it is your own body becoming accustomed to handling normal function while also carrying more muscle mass. The way you walk will also change after gaining larghe amounts of muscle. Your body is in constant flux and getting it to accept that heavier body as normal is not always easily welcomed by the body.
ME:So this is the old ‘fat-guy-with-big-calves’ theory? I’ve seen it disproved many times over.
PX:after gaining 100lbs, I would say no, it is not just “false weight” although food in the digestive tract is also a factor.
ME:I went from a fairly soft 150 lbs in college, to 220 lbs by the time I left grad school. A gain of 70 lbs according to the scale. Hell, I loved telling people I weighed 220, but it was a false weight. I’m secure enough in my accomplishments to admit that. Years later, I can accept that I weigh a pretty damn solid 205 lbs (my actual contest weight, being a temporary state as well due to the dehydration and depletion process, could be considered another false weight if someone were to really stretch the meaning I suppose)
uh-huh…
PX:Also not sure what you meant by this. Care to clarify?
ME:I simply see no reason to constantly play your “I’m a Doctor” card. This is going to come off nasty, and I don’t mean it to be, but last I checked (and I have several friends who are Dentists as well as gym rats), Dentists don’t go to medical school.
(Really didn’t wanna throw that last one out there, but the nasty attitude of authority has got to go big man. It’s getting seriously stale. There are more than a few seriously knowledgeable and accomplished folks on this site, maybe it’s time you realized that.)
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
(Really didn’t wanna throw that last one out there, but the nasty attitude of authority has got to go big man. It’s getting seriously stale. There are more than a few seriously knowledgeable and accomplished folks on this site, maybe it’s time you realized that.)
S[/quote]
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I tried figuring out the quote unquote thing, but this just got messy, so here:
PX:It’s a good thing no one said that it would speed up the rate of anabolism.
What it will do is make sure there is enough food when needed when the body is ready to grow. That is all “bulking up” really is, nothing more nothing less.
ME:So if something is not speeding up the potential for muscle growth, I fail to see the point of maintaining a false weight for those who are physique conscious. To be honest, as much as I may have claimed the extra weight helped support my joints earlier on, it’s more than likely an overrated excuse when we’re talking about the average gym rat. Especially when you can freely see how many people take this to extremes, and can actually limit their growth in the process.
PX:-will likely also lubricate joints better to handle heavier weight and add to leverage. I am sure there are more benefits to bulking up if I wanted to add all possibilities.
ME:But again, is this really an anabolic benefit of maintaining a false scale weight?
PX: This isn’t about “feel” as much as it is your own body becoming accustomed to handling normal function while also carrying more muscle mass. The way you walk will also change after gaining larghe amounts of muscle. Your body is in constant flux and getting it to accept that heavier body as normal is not always easily welcomed by the body.
ME:So this is the old ‘fat-guy-with-big-calves’ theory? I’ve seen it disproved many times over.
PX:after gaining 100lbs, I would say no, it is not just “false weight” although food in the digestive tract is also a factor.
ME:I went from a fairly soft 150 lbs in college, to 220 lbs by the time I left grad school. A gain of 70 lbs according to the scale. Hell, I loved telling people I weighed 220, but it was a false weight. I’m secure enough in my accomplishments to admit that. Years later, I can accept that I weigh a pretty damn solid 205 lbs (my actual contest weight, being a temporary state as well due to the dehydration and depletion process, could be considered another false weight if someone were to really stretch the meaning I suppose)
uh-huh…
PX:Also not sure what you meant by this. Care to clarify?
ME:I simply see no reason to constantly play your “I’m a Doctor” card. This is going to come off nasty, and I don’t mean it to be, but last I checked (and I have several friends who are Dentists as well as gym rats), Dentists don’t go to medical school.
(Really didn’t wanna throw that last one out there, but the nasty attitude of authority has got to go big man. It’s getting seriously stale. There are more than a few seriously knowledgeable and accomplished folks on this site, maybe it’s time you realized that.)
Oh man, I prayed this would stay only on topic, especially with the awesome first few posts. There’s enough bickering on this site as is. I see a shit storm a’brewin
[quote]DaBeard wrote:
Oh man, I prayed this would stay only on topic, especially with the awesome first few posts. There’s enough bickering on this site as is. I see a shit storm a’brewin[/quote]
In all fairness most of the arguing is about the topic.
Its funny, been apart of T-Nation for a long long time. There was a time where disagreeing with anything relating to treating your body like a veal calf until you are hyuuuggee would cause ‘internet stoning’. Now it is like the opposite. Where’s my popcorn…
ME:So if something is not speeding up the potential for muscle growth, I fail to see the point of maintaining a false weight for those who are physique conscious. To be honest, as much as I may have claimed the extra weight helped support my joints earlier on, it’s more than likely an overrated excuse when we’re talking about the average gym rat. Especially when you can freely see how many people take this to extremes, and can actually limit their growth in the process.
[/quote]
I’m sorry, but even using the term “false weight” means you seem to misunderstand this. What is “false” about my current weight? It takes time for your body to adjust to added weight, muscular or otherwise. It changes how you move, the amount of energy expended and even your gait. All of this can factor into long term results.
[quote]
PX:-will likely also lubricate joints better to handle heavier weight and add to leverage. I am sure there are more benefits to bulking up if I wanted to add all possibilities.
ME:But again, is this really an anabolic benefit of maintaining a false scale weight?[/quote]
Once again, what is “false” about this weight?
You have seen a THEORY disproved? I am not sure you know what the term means if you think this. There wold be no need for a theory at all if was actually “disproven”.
I am not sure what this info was for. I weighed about 150lbs in college. I weigh about 255lbs right now. I can calculate lean body mass and the gains made even if estimating.
Your body is mostly water. Calling these different physical states “false” means you may be missing that much of your lean body mass is also water which can change based on dietary changes.
I am not at a “false weight” right now. I disagree with he way you are using this term.
[quote]
ME:I simply see no reason to constantly play your “I’m a Doctor” card. This is going to come off nasty, and I don’t mean it to be, but last I checked (and I have several friends who are Dentists as well as gym rats), Dentists don’t go to medical school.
(Really didn’t wanna throw that last one out there, but the nasty attitude of authority has got to go big man. It’s getting seriously stale. There are more than a few seriously knowledgeable and accomplished folks on this site, maybe it’s time you realized that.)
S[/quote]
Dentists follow the same curriculum as the med students through year 3. That means gross anatomy and even neurology and pharmacology. I am not sure how stating this aids my understanding of the human body would offend someone. It is simply the truth.
My medical background is extensive enough for me to claim that it helps in my understanding of many bodybuilding topics.
If me stating as such truly offends you, maybe the problem is you.
ME:So if something is not speeding up the potential for muscle growth, I fail to see the point of maintaining a false weight for those who are physique conscious. To be honest, as much as I may have claimed the extra weight helped support my joints earlier on, it’s more than likely an overrated excuse when we’re talking about the average gym rat. Especially when you can freely see how many people take this to extremes, and can actually limit their growth in the process.
[/quote]
I’m sorry, but even using the term “false weight” means you seem to misunderstand this. What is “false” about my current weight? It takes time for your body to adjust to added weight, muscular or otherwise. It changes how you move, the amount of energy expended and even your gait. All of this can factor into long term results.
[quote]
PX:-will likely also lubricate joints better to handle heavier weight and add to leverage. I am sure there are more benefits to bulking up if I wanted to add all possibilities.
ME:But again, is this really an anabolic benefit of maintaining a false scale weight?[/quote]
Once again, what is “false” about this weight?
You have seen a THEORY disproved? I am not sure you know what the term means if you think this. There wold be no need for a theory at all if was actually “disproven”.
I am not sure what this info was for. I weighed about 150lbs in college. I weigh about 255lbs right now. I can calculate lean body mass and the gains made even if estimating.
Your body is mostly water. Calling these different physical states “false” means you may be missing that much of your lean body mass is also water which can change based on dietary changes.
I am not at a “false weight” right now. I disagree with he way you are using this term.
I took A&P, graduate level kines, graduate mus. phys., and have a master’s in human phys. I also know how to run an IV. If I were going around saying that I were a professional exercise physiologist or a fucking nurse, I would kick my own ass.
Literally, none of that information you learned (except for maybe mechanisms of injury and GAS) has anything to do with anything you or anyone does in the weightroom.
Medical backround, in my experience, is inversly related with what actually happens in the weightroom. There is not one doctor, athletic trainer, or PT I have met in my training lifetime (14 years) and professional experience (6 years) that hasn’t said “lifting weights is bad for you.”
I personally am offended by most of your posts. Mostly because there are a lot of younger people on here who might think you have any idea what you are talking about.
I took A&P, graduate level kines, graduate mus. phys., and have a master’s in human phys. I also know how to run an IV. If I were going around saying that I were a professional exercise physiologist or a fucking nurse, I would kick my own ass.[/quote]
? Unless you are a nurse, what is your point? People call me Doctor all day, not “dentist”.
[quote]
Literally, none of that information you learned (except for maybe mechanisms of injury and GAS) has anything to do with anything you or anyone does in the weightroom.[/quote]
We aren’t just discussing the weight room here, even though I have worked as a personal trainer also. We are discussing how the body can change over time…which would fall right in line here.
[quote]
Medical backround, in my experience, is inversly related with what actually happens in the weightroom. There is not one doctor, athletic trainer, or PT I have met in my training lifetime (14 years) and professional experience (6 years) that hasn’t said “lifting weights is bad for you.” [/quote]
? I have friends who lift who are MD’s. There are many more now than ever. Many of the guys at Ben Taub look like they played football. Maybe I live in a larger city than you.
[quote]
I personally am offended by most of your posts. Mostly because there are a lot of younger people on here who might think you have any idea what you are talking about.[/quote]
? I am not even sure what this means. I have been here long enough for people to know if I know what I am talking about or not.
Classic Professor X. It’s always everyone else that has the problem.
When of the the nicest and most helpful guys on the entire site tells you have a nasty attitude and you still refuse to listen, then nothing is going get through to you.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Classic Professor X. It’s always everyone else that has the problem.
When of the the nicest and most helpful guys on the entire site tells you have a nasty attitude and you still refuse to listen, then nothing is going get through to you.[/quote]
But…why would YOU or anyone else care what someone thinks about your attitude?
I’m not here to please you, Stu, or anyone else in particular. If you don’t like me, who cares?
Back on topic, the OP mentioned a theory I had discussed before by name. I responded for him, not anyone else. He seems happy with the advice…so why is anyone else concerned beyond that?
