Edited because I re read it and it’s not funny, haha.
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
And the gains for natties–who really are consistent with this and doing all they can right–go something like this:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
So… being this is the case, and natural gains are about 1 to 2 pounds a month what the hell is overeating and gaining 30+ pounds of fat going to do for anyone?! Like Stu said, no one is forcing muscular gains from reaching weights far beyond what is considered lean (not talking contest ready lean)?
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
And the gains for natties–who really are consistent with this and doing all they can right–go something like this:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
So… being this is the case, and natural gains are about 1 to 2 pounds a month what the hell is overeating and gaining 30+ pounds of fat going to do for anyone?! Like Stu said, no one is forcing muscular gains from reaching weights far beyond what is considered lean (not talking contest ready lean)?
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”. [/quote]
well this post just depressed me hahah, but i agree with everything you are saying
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
You look very good though. It’s impressive to even build 30 pounds of muscle considering it will make one look like a different person compared to when they started.
Apologizing in advance for:
#negativementality
#negativeattitude
#settingbarlow
#notbeingsrs
#beingordinary
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
And the gains for natties–who really are consistent with this and doing all they can right–go something like this:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
So… being this is the case, and natural gains are about 1 to 2 pounds a month what the hell is overeating and gaining 30+ pounds of fat going to do for anyone?! Like Stu said, no one is forcing muscular gains from reaching weights far beyond what is considered lean (not talking contest ready lean)?
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”. [/quote]
well this post just depressed me hahah, but i agree with everything you are saying[/quote]
Thanks bro.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
your looking great but.
most people tend to underestimate how much of a change 30-40lb of actual muscle makes to your physique.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
your looking great but.
most people tend to underestimate how much of a change 30-40lb of actual muscle makes to your physique.
[/quote]
Exactly, considering good natties gain 40 pounds in their whole lifting ordeal.
Apologizing in advance for:
#notlookingatbellcurve
#dismissingexceptions
#dismissingwhatdoesnthappen
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
your looking great but.
most people tend to underestimate how much of a change 30-40lb of actual muscle makes to your physique.
[/quote]
Exactly, considering good natties gain 40 pounds in their whole lifting ordeal.
Apologizing in advance for:
#notlookingatbellcurve
#dismissingexceptions
#dismissingwhatdoesnthappen
[/quote]
yerp. one of my fave natty bodybuilders and a very knowledgable guy
alberto nunez
http://thisiswhyyourejacked.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Alberto-Nunez2.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2272/bertoa.jpg
years of hardwork right there.
I’d say those predictions seem accurate. I’m tall and started out severely underweight, so I had a net gain of 50 lbs this first year. I think my progress will be great, but even so doubt I can get half that amount lean each coming year.
People do not realize how drastic a few pounds of muscle added to a frame can make a physique look. 10 pounds of muscle added after a couple years when your more advanced is huge. You will look much larger/better.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
[/quote]
40-50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey for a natural? so everyone above… like 200 is putting on fat, if they are natural? maybe they should quit bodybuilding because they will never gain more muscle
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”. [/quote]
yeah, powerlifters putting up big numbers are just fat… its not muscle, or anything… fat gives you insane bench/squat/and deadlift numbers
and where did X advocate putting on fat? i must’ve missed that one
strong straw man arguments in this thread
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
just stop bro you’ll only get fatter post year 5
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
[/quote]
40-50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey for a natural? so everyone above… like 200 is putting on fat, if they are natural? maybe they should quit bodybuilding because they will never gain more muscle
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”. [/quote]
yeah, powerlifters putting up big numbers are just fat… its not muscle, or anything… fat gives you insane bench/squat/and deadlift numbers
and where did X advocate putting on fat? i must’ve missed that one
strong straw man arguments in this thread
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
just stop bro you’ll only get fatter post year 5
[/quote]
way to completely miss what brick and i said. no not everyone over 200lb is fat, no one said this. you seem to be confused. his point is after a few solid years of training as a natty gains slow drastically. if your body is only capable of putting on say 3-6lb of muscle for the whole year, then being at a high bodyfat is unnecessary.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I can see why in one’s first, serious bulk as a youngster, they MIGHT experiment and benefit from what I’d call an “all out bulk” in which they gain an appreciable amount of bodyfat with their first noob 20 to 25 pound gain. However, what I think X really doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that naturals can only gain about 40 to 50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey. People can say all the bad things about Casey Butt, AA, and LM all they want, but the guys have done due diligence and have studied nutrition, training, and the stats of lifters since the 1960’s as much as anyone can and provided us with good information. And besides that, anyone following natural bodybuilding for some time will see the same weight trends over and over and over!
[/quote]
40-50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey for a natural? so everyone above… like 200 is putting on fat, if they are natural? maybe they should quit bodybuilding because they will never gain more muscle
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Even if one puts up bigger numbers because of fat mass, it doesn’t mean there is some definite increase in muscle mass to go with that “fat strength”. [/quote]
yeah, powerlifters putting up big numbers are just fat… its not muscle, or anything… fat gives you insane bench/squat/and deadlift numbers
and where did X advocate putting on fat? i must’ve missed that one
strong straw man arguments in this thread
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
First year: 25 pounds
Second year: half of above (12 or 13 pounds)
Third year: half of above (6 or so pounds)
Fourth year and beyond: painfully slow, almost negligible gains over time
[/quote]
What? Why do you have to kill my dreams man I’m in year five and not happy with my size.[/quote]
just stop bro you’ll only get fatter post year 5
[/quote]
way to completely miss what brick and i said. no not everyone over 200lb is fat, no one said this. you seem to be confused. his point is after a few solid years of training as a natty gains slow drastically. if your body is only capable of putting on say 3-6lb of muscle for the whole year, then being at a high bodyfat is unnecessary. [/quote]
Exactly.
Why bother being sloppy when it’s doing you no good?
hahahaha
all the NO LIMITS bros should post their starting weight along with their current weight + BF%. What’s so wrong with the process of refinement? I think it’s what makes these hobbies so rewarding and really shows what we’re passionate and dedicated towards.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
way to completely miss what brick and i said. no not everyone over 200lb is fat, no one said this. you seem to be confused. his point is after a few solid years of training as a natty gains slow drastically. if your body is only capable of putting on say 3-6lb of muscle for the whole year, then being at a high bodyfat is unnecessary. [/quote]
you’re guaranteed to stay small with that mindset, 100% guaranteed, limiting yourself. Know how you know if you are getting fat? you measure your bodyfat, not read some bullshit about “how much muscle you can gain in year X”
also no one advocated high bodyfat… yet again
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
40-50 pounds of muscle over a lifting journey for a natural? so everyone above… like 200 is putting on fat, if they are natural? maybe they should quit bodybuilding because they will never gain more muscle
[/quote]
Why the heck would someone quit considering it takes training and adequate nutrition to maintain that size?!
Please… look at top (real) naturals or attend an INBF pro qualifier show or WNBF show or hang around some top natties.
I am not talking about total bodyweight gain; I am talking about lean mass gain! And how much fat gain is made to be considered “fat past 200 pounds” depends on what fat mass the person is starting at and height.
Again, please attend a decent natty show and look at the people: hardly any compete at above 200 if they’re of average height.
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
way to completely miss what brick and i said. no not everyone over 200lb is fat, no one said this. you seem to be confused. his point is after a few solid years of training as a natty gains slow drastically. if your body is only capable of putting on say 3-6lb of muscle for the whole year, then being at a high bodyfat is unnecessary. [/quote]
you’re guaranteed to stay small with that mindset, 100% guaranteed, limiting yourself. Know how you know if you are getting fat? you measure your bodyfat, not read some bullshit about “how much muscle you can gain in year X”[/quote]
It’s a good thing I made my post above in which I apologized for:
#settinglimits
#negativementality
#settingnoobsback
Hey guys, I want to improve my vertical jump? Do you think if I recognize I can’t fly I’m putting a limitation on myself?
Some people need to get realistic.
Truth is these people thinking they’ll be a ripped 250 natty…well will never be a ripped 250 natty.
Once you get these unrealistic expectations out of your head life is better.
You get lean, focus on building muscle, enjoy the body you were given, take care of it.
[quote]fr0gger666 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
way to completely miss what brick and i said. no not everyone over 200lb is fat, no one said this. you seem to be confused. his point is after a few solid years of training as a natty gains slow drastically. if your body is only capable of putting on say 3-6lb of muscle for the whole year, then being at a high bodyfat is unnecessary. [/quote]
you’re guaranteed to stay small with that mindset, 100% guaranteed, limiting yourself. Know how you know if you are getting fat? you measure your bodyfat, not read some bullshit about “how much muscle you can gain in year X”
also no one advocated high bodyfat… yet again
[/quote]
whos limiting themselves? are you profx’s second account, you talk just like him.