How Long to Reach a 315 Bench?

[system]

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

Your a hater. simple. Calling me fat is retarded. Fat compared to whom. fat compared to a contest ready bodybuilder? maybe. fat compared to any offseason pro looking to put on size. i think not. I can guarantee, I’ve been lifting longer than you have. The whole fat thing is stupid. nobody who sees me in person has ever said i was fat. you go by one pic. taken in almost the dark(not done on purpose).

The other things you mentioned or didn’t mention besides increasing the weight. Like cutting back on rest time in between sets. doing various intensity techniques, rest pause, strip sets. Those are only good for a shock value. They will not work on a continual long term basis.

I’m not saying you have to bench 600lbs to have a big chest. but, at whatever weight you start at for whatever exercise, over time, you have to increase your strength. it can be only 5lbs in a month. but over time, you have to. Sure other things you can do. trust me, i know all about them. but over time, you have to increase your strength.

[Chris87]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

Translation: “Just because you’re a bodybuilder doesn’t mean you know about bodybuilding.”

[Chris87]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

[/quote]

Muscles do not “carve up.” Muscles only get bigger or get smaller.

Trying to “bring up weak points” means that they are in fact seeking hypertrophy in these weak points, which means that they would have to be getting stronger, according to your logic.

If we continue to follow your logic, then by having an overwhelmingly larger amount of muscle mass, pro bodybuilders must be overwhelmingly stronger then elite powerlifters.

This is not true. Yes, they are strong, but a 405 bench is not elite for a SHW powerlifter.

Thus, your logic is disproven and false.

[JLone]

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

Translation: “Just because you’re a bodybuilder doesn’t mean you know about bodybuilding.”[/quote]
LOL, Nice.

[elliottcorum]

[quote]hailmary5150 wrote:
Just wondering! Ive been training for almost 4 years and still not able to do this! But,
I never knew how important squatting was i did not have it in my program until last year.
Same with deadlifts they both suck number wise.

I was able to bench 300 but i lost that strength after cutting and dieting for 3 months!
Currently @ 275[/quote]

Somebody has already said it takes about two years to reach 315, and I agree with that. Plus, I’ll add that is for a beginner on a strength program. For someone like the OP who has been training for “almost 4 years,” it should happen sooner if that is his goal, especially since he has already hit the 300 mark and is currently at 275.

To the OP, I am currently at a 275lb bench also (I should admit that’s estimated. My last 1RM was in July and I got 265; my current 5RM is 245 done one month ago). I’m 33, 160 lbs and have been training for exactly one year using 5/3/1 with the sole purpose of getting stronger; hypertrophy is of no interest to me right now. I started last January with a 210lb bench, and set a goal of having a 300lb bench within one year. I failed to reach that goal because of some mistakes that I made with my training, plus it was a bit unrealistic, truth be told. When I set my goals, I had no idea about anything training related; I just knew that I needed to set goals. However, I will reach that 300 goal by this summer and 315 before the end of the year, thereby solidifying my opinion that a beginner lifter can reach that mark in two years.

OP, with good programming, you should be back at your old PR of 300 soon and then 315’s just a dime and a half away. It will definitely happen this year if you want it to. Good luck to you.

[Blackaggar]

i got 315 just before i turned 20 and im turning 21 in a month so it took me 2 years, then i think 8 months after that or so i got 405 but in that time i also gained like 40lbs

[Proud_Virgin]

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
If we continue to follow your logic, then by having an overwhelmingly larger amount of muscle mass, pro bodybuilders must be overwhelmingly stronger then elite powerlifters.

This is not true. Yes, they are strong, but a 405 bench is not elite for a SHW powerlifter.

Thus, your logic is disproven and false.[/quote]

Yeah, but we’re not talking about 405 for a max rep.

I’d bet that pro BBs could hold their own with powerlifters, as far as repetition strength goes.

Limit strength, on the other hand, no way. But then again, they don’t train for it.

Either way, the best BBs and PLs are STRONG

[Matthaeus]

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

lmao simply brilliant.

[system]

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

[/quote]

Muscles do not “carve up.” Muscles only get bigger or get smaller.

Trying to “bring up weak points” means that they are in fact seeking hypertrophy in these weak points, which means that they would have to be getting stronger, according to your logic.

If we continue to follow your logic, then by having an overwhelmingly larger amount of muscle mass, pro bodybuilders must be overwhelmingly stronger then elite powerlifters.

This is not true. Yes, they are strong, but a 405 bench is not elite for a SHW powerlifter.

Thus, your logic is disproven and false.[/quote]

Listen, bodybuilders are not as strong as powerlifters. at least most aren’t. The reason is, powerlifters train in a much lower rep range. powerlifters only care about weight lifted. Now, a few minutes ago, i googled, getting bigger without getting stronger. Lets put it this way. its impossible from everything ive read. you can get stronger and not bigger.

I guarantee you this, every pro bodybuilder is going to be stronger now, than he was 50lbs ago. to gain that 50lbs of muscle that they all gained, they got alot stronger. some got stronger than others. but, for each person, they have to increase their own strength levels. If your a 200lb guy, think back to when you were 160lbs, are you stronger now?

Ok, the only exception i can see, is say someone always trained with fast paced and explosive reps, then they started getting injured so they cut back on the weight, and focused more on form and slow controlled reps. that will lower the weight they are lifting. but, if they continue to train in that manner, to make further gains, they will have to get stronger while doing the slower reps. Im not talking huge increases in strength, but over the course of months, they have to make strength gains.

[system]

[quote]Matthaeus wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

lmao simply brilliant.[/quote]

Anyone who looks at my pic and sees fat and not someone whos jacked to the gills, is disturbed and a hater and needs some mental help.

[Maiden3_16]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Anyone who looks at my pic and sees fat and not someone whos jacked to the gills, is disturbed and a hater and needs some mental help.[/quote]

Dude you are SOOO jacked! to the gills! no doubt

[JLone]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who looks at my pic and sees fat and not someone whos jacked to the gills, is disturbed and a hater and needs some mental help.[/quote]

This is the part where I tell you to take pictures in better light and not to crop the piss out of them.

[BONEZ217]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

Your a hater. simple. Calling me fat is retarded. Fat compared to whom. fat compared to a contest ready bodybuilder? maybe. fat compared to any offseason pro looking to put on size. i think not. I can guarantee, I’ve been lifting longer than you have. The whole fat thing is stupid. nobody who sees me in person has ever said i was fat. you go by one pic. taken in almost the dark(not done on purpose).

The other things you mentioned or didn’t mention besides increasing the weight. Like cutting back on rest time in between sets. doing various intensity techniques, rest pause, strip sets. Those are only good for a shock value. They will not work on a continual long term basis.

I’m not saying you have to bench 600lbs to have a big chest. but, at whatever weight you start at for whatever exercise, over time, you have to increase your strength. it can be only 5lbs in a month. but over time, you have to. Sure other things you can do. trust me, i know all about them. but over time, you have to increase your strength.[/quote]

Hey Paula Deen.

That second paragraph. It’s bullshit. You have no idea if it works becuase I know for a fact that you never gave those options their due to find out if they work. Do you know how many people say that DC doesnt work for size gains? Guess what, youre doing the same thing they are.

Keep on with your modified DC training. Keep a blind eye to quality info. Keep prentending that your opinions are ‘undisputed facts’. You sound silly.

[system]

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

Your a hater. simple. Calling me fat is retarded. Fat compared to whom. fat compared to a contest ready bodybuilder? maybe. fat compared to any offseason pro looking to put on size. i think not. I can guarantee, I’ve been lifting longer than you have. The whole fat thing is stupid. nobody who sees me in person has ever said i was fat. you go by one pic. taken in almost the dark(not done on purpose).

The other things you mentioned or didn’t mention besides increasing the weight. Like cutting back on rest time in between sets. doing various intensity techniques, rest pause, strip sets. Those are only good for a shock value. They will not work on a continual long term basis.

I’m not saying you have to bench 600lbs to have a big chest. but, at whatever weight you start at for whatever exercise, over time, you have to increase your strength. it can be only 5lbs in a month. but over time, you have to. Sure other things you can do. trust me, i know all about them. but over time, you have to increase your strength.[/quote]

Hey Paula Deen.

That second paragraph. It’s bullshit. You have no idea if it works becuase I know for a fact that you never gave those options their due to find out if they work. Do you know how many people say that DC doesnt work for size gains? Guess what, youre doing the same thing they are.

Keep on with your modified DC training. Keep a blind eye to quality info. Keep prentending that your opinions are ‘undisputed facts’. You sound silly. [/quote]

I’m extremely open to anything that will work. There are aspects of dc training that can’t help but make you gain size. working each bodypart more frequently. thats been talked about numerous times on this site by many authors. (Waterbury) for one. and low volume simply makes it easier to be able to do each bodypart more frequently. I’ve started incorporating change of tempo into my workouts. instead of lifting everything explosively with max weights, i m lowering the weight and doing the reps nice and slow. not superslow but slow. Ill see how that plays out.

[Chris87]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

if your doing the same amount of weight in whatever exercise after a years time. You will not be any bigger. You need to get stronger in order to get bigger. that is one undisputed fact. yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger. If you do low reps, under 5, that won’t produce much growth. TUT is to low for that to occur. but, you still have to get stronger in the correct rep range to get bigger. thats a fact.[/quote]

i would agree with you if we are only talking about doing the same routine with the same exercises with the same weight for the same reps. getting bigger is about hitting the muscles from different angles with many different exercises. you want to keep the body from adapting. there are these things called complexes, circuits, rest/pause, drop sets, giant sets, decending sets, etc… the list goes on. it’s all about maintaining stress on the muscle for the most time possible.

Of course if you are doing a set of 10 with 225 on bench press week in and week out your body will quickly adapt to that and stop growing.
[/quote]

There are only so many basic compound exercises for each muscle. Even if you switch exercises all the time, you still have to get stronger in those exercises. Say you change up the tempo, which im doing now, by slowing down the movement, that will hit the muscle differently. but, even doing that, you still have to make progress in weight in order to keep getting bigger. [/quote]

let’s follow your logic for a moment then. if you are right, every huge bodybuilder out there should also be elite level powerlifters as well. if muscle size is in direct proportion to muscular strength then all the extremely huge bodybuilders should all be benching well over 500lbs, squatting 800 or more lbs…same for deadlift, since to coninue getting huge you HAVE to get stronger. [/quote]

remember, most pros are just trying to carve up what they already have. most aren’t trying to get bigger. they try and bring up parts they feel need more work. but overall they aren’t trying to get bigger.

[/quote]

Muscles do not “carve up.” Muscles only get bigger or get smaller.

Trying to “bring up weak points” means that they are in fact seeking hypertrophy in these weak points, which means that they would have to be getting stronger, according to your logic.

If we continue to follow your logic, then by having an overwhelmingly larger amount of muscle mass, pro bodybuilders must be overwhelmingly stronger then elite powerlifters.

This is not true. Yes, they are strong, but a 405 bench is not elite for a SHW powerlifter.

Thus, your logic is disproven and false.[/quote]

1-Listen, bodybuilders are not as strong as powerlifters.

2- i googled

3- I guarantee you this, every pro bodybuilder is going to be stronger now, than he was 50lbs ago.

4- If your a 200lb guy, think back to when you were 160lbs, are you stronger now?

5- Ok, the only exception i can see, is say someone always trained with fast paced and explosive reps, then they started getting injured so they cut back on the weight, and focused more on form and slow controlled reps. that will lower the weight they are lifting. but, if they continue to train in that manner, to make further gains, they will have to get stronger while doing the slower reps. Im not talking huge increases in strength, but over the course of months, they have to make strength gains.[/quote]

1- I know bodybuilders are not stronger then powerlifters (assuming both are elite). I made that point.

2- Glad you based your whole philosophy on a google search.

3- I’d hope so.

4- Yes, very much so. I’m also not a bodybuilder.

5- So now you say there is an exception? You seemed to be very sure that there were none a few posts ago.

You have made no relevant arguments, see my last post.

[Matthaeus]

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Matthaeus wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Anyone who says they benched 315 in under a year, is lying to you. Ok, if thats the case, you should be benching over 500lbs by now, RIGHTTTTT?? I suspect not. Why is it guys who say such thing, are most likely still only benching 315lbs. Why is that. They haven’t improved since then. lol. Its quite obvious it took them a hell of alot longer than a year or 2 to bench that. just use common sense. [/quote]

Some people make adaption in terms of strength gains very quickly, while others take longer. Similarly with hypertrophy gains. I didn’t start training until I was in my early 20’s, but had taught martial arts, ran track, and played hockey up til then, so maybe my body was more neurologically efficient than I realized.

The point is that while you can’t compare two different people’s physiology, your assumption that such strength gains will continue at such a rate indefinitely shows your complete lack of any real understanding of physiology, or even bodybuilding.

Besides the obvious slowing of ‘steps’ in gains, the reason so many more intermediate or advanced BODYBUILDING trainees stop chasing strength gains is because their goal is hypertrophy, which is not always induced by moving a wight from point A to point B.

I shall now go back to ignoring whatever expert advice RV shells out, but continue to answer, and discuss HONESTLY (like I always have on here) any questions or matters other people have

S[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting bodybuilding rule #1, PROGRESSION. Heres a fact for ya. you will not get bigger if your not getting stronger. yes, your gains slow down, i never said they didn’t. But you still have to get stronger in order to get bigger. My point was, if you got to 315 in only a year, you should be benching a hell of alot more than that now. Or are you saying your progress slows down that much after only 1 years time?

Listen, just cause you know how to starve yourself in order to compete in speedos on stage for some plastic trophy, doesn’t mean you know any more than anyone else. especially me. [/quote]

ahahhaha

1. your muscles know not the amount (read: the number) of weight used. Your muscles repond to stimulation. Lifting more weight than previously done is simply ONE way to create a new stimulus.

2. You are fat.

3. Stu has already discussed why raw strength is not his focus at this point in his career. Learn to read plain english.

4. You are covered by a thick layer of blubber.

5. You have a bare minimal understanding of physiology, at best.

6. Your accomplishments (lol) are diminished because you are a one trick pony. See 2 and 4. [/quote]

lmao simply brilliant.[/quote]

Anyone who looks at my pic and sees fat and not someone whos jacked to the gills, is disturbed and a hater and needs some mental help.[/quote]

Nobody here is envious of your physique no matter how amazing you think it is. You might see yourself a certain way but the overwhelming majority of people on this site who have seen your pictures find you both fat and unimpressive by bodybuilding standards including actual competitive bodybuilders.

I’m glad your happy and confident with the way you look but you really need to come to terms with that fact that most everyone here finds you fat and not just by competitive bodybuilding standards but by regular standards. Even the guys here who’s goals are to get as big as possible don’t want to look like you, because to the rest of us you just don’t look good plain and simple no matter how much you weigh or what measurements you claim.

If your that desperate for everyone’s approval and want us all to envy you and idolize your physique. Then you can either post actual pics of you hitting the mandatory poses or make a video of you doing them.

Or you can just accept the fact that no one here is impressed and stop bragging about how “JACKED TO THE GILLS” you are lol. Because if people here actually thought you were they would be giving you props and you wouldn’t constantly need to brag about it every thread you post in.

[buzza]

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i never reached a 315 bench in all the years i competed in bodybuilding. strength wasn’t a concern of mine. i would say i never went above 275. i switched over to powerlifting about 6 years ago and was benching 315 within 6 months. [/quote]

MM,you are one of the stronger mofos I know,could you tall us if your chest has become bigger since you started PL at such high level?
thanx[/quote]

i still do a lot of hypertrophy training and that is what i would attribute my size to. You can get stronger without getting bigger and you can get bigger without lifting heavy. that’s a fact. now there is something to be said for having a bigger muscle to support heavier weights. strength is a function of neural efficiency…being able to fire more motor units. this happens through training in a low rep range and learning to strain under heavy weight.

this type of training won’t produce a huge amount of muscle mass. BUT at some point more mass will be needed to get to a certain strength level. It doesn’t go the other way though. You don’t HAVE to get to a certain strength level to gain more mass. Muscle mass is all about TUT…at least that’s how it has worked for me all these years. [/quote]

fair and exhaustive reply,thanx,pls keeping on updating your log,amazin stuff.

[paulieserafini]

I’ve never attempted anymore than a set of five with 275 and I couldn’t do that now.
Ha and my bud who is like probably 190ish lbs at about 5’10 just hit a 300 bench and he was suprised when I told him I never attempted a 300 lift

I’m weaker than I was a little less than I was a year ago, but I’m bigger now than I was back then and now that I’m five lbs down because I just started to try to cut I weigh the same as I did then.

[The3Commandments]

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
My muscles are much larger now than they were when I was at my ‘strongest’ (and I weighed considerably less then as well). In fact, I actually doubt if I could bench now what I could 5 years ago. Not because I’ve lost any muscle size, but because my body doesn’t have such strength demands regularly placed on it - which I stopped doing as my M.O. when I realized that I wasn’t getting any closer to my actual goal, which was hypertrophy.

Similarly, you will hear about various IFBB Pros being surprisingly weak when seen in public gyms. No I’m not talking about when they’re a few weeks out from a contest, but even in the offseason. The reason is that there are approaches to stimulate muscle growth that do not focus solely on improving strength, and in undertaking such approaches, there may not only be more growth benefit to the bodybuilder, but less risk in terms of injury potential.

S[/quote]

I know that this thread has now turned into a trainwreck, but I’m hoping I might get a response nevertheless. Stu, I found this post to be really interesting.

I’ve been on TNation for a bit more than a year trying to build an understanding of bodybuilding from what you guys have to teach. A lot of the lessons are straightforward aspects of weightlifting and nutrition, some of which are universally agreed upon (e.g. progressive overload) and some of which are not (e.g. carb intake).

The above-quoted post points to something that I feel like I’ve read a lot but haven’t read a lot about (i.e. I’ve seen the idea many times, but have not seen it explained). Granted, I understand that bodybuilding is different from powerlifting, but I don’t feel like there’s been a big discussion about the ways in which it is different philosophically. It often feels like on some level we’re just progressively overloading more exercises than a powerlifter’s bench-squat-deadlift combo.

So Stu (or whomever), when you “realized that I wasn’t getting any closer to my actual goal, which was hypertrophy,” what did you specifically change? Was it just a matter of rep ranges? # of exercises selected? Or was it something more fundamental than that? I feel like it’s not a concept that I fully understand, and if anyone wants to chime in, that would be great.

[buzza]

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
So Stu (or whomever), when you “realized that I wasn’t getting any closer to my actual goal, which was hypertrophy,” what did you specifically change? Was it just a matter of rep ranges? # of exercises selected? Or was it something more fundamental than that? I feel like it’s not a concept that I fully understand, and if anyone wants to chime in, that would be great.
[/quote]

well,of course i’m not Stu.
two years ago I was using 210lb for reverse pulldownz,

december 2009,see pic

then I progressed in strnght and I was using 265lb for my working set at reverse pulldownz,machine stacks was maxed out.
now i’m using no more than 176lb,my back is bigger.
I’m using lighter loads because i’m doing pullovers first than rows,pre-exaust=more stimulus.

I was using 290lb for my bb rows working set,now just 65lb dbs (for rows layin on a incline bench).

full rom,low eccentrics, better form and the abused muscle/mind connection that -for me- it’s just ; full rom,good form,right load.

just my thoughts