I have been searching on the web and within T-Nation, looking for the actual process that is used to make Creatine. I have even checked with the US Patent office. You would think that since so many different companies produce and sell it that the production information would be readily available. It is not that I’m questioning the use of it, as I take creatine right now. I am just curious as to how it is made.
If anyone has any leads or links, please post…
Thanx
It comes from outer space.
P.S. I’m actually interested to know that answer to this, as well…
[quote]CC wrote:
It comes from outer space.
P.S. I’m actually interested to know that answer to this, as well…[/quote]
HaHa…I am starting to think that myself…
You see they take this stuff called “crea” and this other stuff called “tine” and they mash it together into a fine powder.
Why do you actually care?
in the body, an enzyme catalyzes the nucleophilic attack of the amino end of glycine to the gaudinium center in arginine, then in the tetrahedral transition state, the arginine leaves minus the gaundinium. This creates ornithine and gaundinioacetate.
gaundinioacetate is then methylated by a methionine and adenosine complex(also in the liver) and bam,
thats creatine.
Whether or not that’s how they synthesize carnitine on a large scale is questionable, but i believe getting large amounts of arginine, glycine and even methionine is pretty easy.
However, the last methylation step could probably be done with things other than that adenosine/methionine complex, but may require protection should you use some reactive methylating agent.
Creatine is just whey protein that’s been left out in the sun.
It’s actually finely ground white kryptonite.
[quote]consumer wrote:
in the body, an enzyme catalyzes the nucleophilic attack of the amino end of glycine to the gaudinium center in arginine, then in the tetrahedral transition state, the arginine leaves minus the gaundinium. This creates ornithine and gaundinioacetate.
gaundinioacetate is then methylated by a methionine and adenosine complex(also in the liver) and bam,
thats creatine.
Whether or not that’s how they synthesize carnitine on a large scale is questionable, but i believe getting large amounts of arginine, glycine and even methionine is pretty easy.
However, the last methylation step could probably be done with things other than that adenosine/methionine complex, but may require protection should you use some reactive methylating agent.[/quote]
Some Synthetic Creatine is made from Sarcosine (Sarcosine salts) and Cyanamide.
Sarcosine is naturally occuring like Creatine but they use a synthetic version. Its usually made from chloroacetic acid.
Sarcosine is N-methylglycine (H3C-NH-CH2-COOH) which is also an endogenous antagonist of glycine transporter-1.
Cyanamide is an amide of cyanogen, and is white crystalline.
The creatine made from sarcosine and cyanamise is made in this huge glass lined vat called a reactor. These reactors cost up to a million dollars US and require specialist technicians hence most Creatine is made by a few firms and bought by everyone else.
The reactor has a big rod like a whisk that shoots into the mix to work it. The reactor is filled with water then the sarcosine and cyanamide are put in with catalyst compounds. The reactor is heated and pressurised a bit like a canning machine. The reaction inside causes creatine crystals to form.
Now the cystalline creatine is put in a large centrifuge. How much processing it gets after the time in the reactor is what can make it good or not so good.
The centrifuge spins and undesirable bi-products like creatinine and di-cyandiamide are slung into the bunker reservoir on the machine.
The mix left over is then dried in a vacuum drier which separates the creatine from moisture.
The last bit is milling because the powder is usually too coarse. IF its milled to 200 mesh its known as micronized and has small particles.
I theorise that some creatine gives undesirable water retention in use because its not sufficiently centrifuged to save process costs. I mentioned this in previous posts and got scoffed at but it makes sense.
Very pure creatine has more time in the centrifuge, no doubt.
The reason lots of Creatine is made in Germany and Austria is because they have lots of reactors for making it.
These are smaller glass lined reactors…
Probably not much use for making creatine but you get the idea.
Hope this helps.
always a pleasure to be taught by you Dr. Stig. I wish i could take your courses.
When a Mommy Creatine and a Daddy Creatine love each other.
[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
Some Synthetic Creatine is made from Sarcosine (Sarcosine salts) and Cyanamide.
Sarcosine is naturally occuring like Creatine but they use a synthetic version. Its usually made from chloroacetic acid.
Sarcosine is N-methylglycine (H3C-NH-CH2-COOH) which is also an endogenous antagonist of glycine transporter-1.
Cyanamide is an amide of cyanogen, and is white crystalline.
The creatine made from sarcosine and cyanamise is made in this huge glass lined vat called a reactor. These reactors cost up to a million dollars US and require specialist technicians hence most Creatine is made by a few firms and bought by everyone else.
The reactor has a big rod like a whisk that shoots into the mix to work it. The reactor is filled with water then the sarcosine and cyanamide are put in with catalyst compounds. The reactor is heated and pressurised a bit like a canning machine. The reaction inside causes creatine crystals to form.
Now the cystalline creatine is put in a large centrifuge. How much processing it gets after the time in the reactor is what can make it good or not so good.
The centrifuge spins and undesirable bi-products like creatinine and di-cyandiamide are slung into the bunker reservoir on the machine.
The mix left over is then dried in a vacuum drier which separates the creatine from moisture.
The last bit is milling because the powder is usually too coarse. IF its milled to 200 mesh its known as micronized and has small particles.
I theorise that some creatine gives undesirable water retention in use because its not sufficiently centrifuged to save process costs. I mentioned this in previous posts and got scoffed at but it makes sense.
Very pure creatine has more time in the centrifuge, no doubt.
The reason lots of Creatine is made in Germany and Austria is because they have lots of reactors for making it.
These are smaller glass lined reactors…
Probably not much use for making creatine but you get the idea.
Hope this helps.[/quote]
Wow. Much more than helpful. Thanks Stig. I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but I’m coming to enjoy reading your responses; quite knowledgeable.
I take it from another poster’s comments that you are a professor? What courses would you happen to teach?
[quote]CC wrote:
Wow. Much more than helpful. Thanks Stig. I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but I’m coming to enjoy reading your responses; quite knowledgeable.
I take it from another poster’s comments that you are a professor? What courses would you happen to teach?[/quote]
Professor means something different over here. I’m not a Professor. I have two jobs, teach music theory and guitar and work as consultant in food industry usually either prod. development or food processing stuff and special projects, and it pays well but I prefer the music.
I do teach music in schools though sometimes, you don’t need the full pgce to do it like normal teacher but you need certification. I kinda hang out with other teachers though sometimes and just today I shouted at some kids, I bellowed, you should have heard it. It was loud. Plus I am the only person emplyed by my LEA to own a Maserati and smoke cigars so I expect vitriol from the other staff.
Freeze dried pig sperm, which is brought to a solid form and ground into a fine dust.
ahhh i hate the word methylated. the harshness it has put on my liver from time to time…
[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
CC wrote:
Wow. Much more than helpful. Thanks Stig. I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but I’m coming to enjoy reading your responses; quite knowledgeable.
I take it from another poster’s comments that you are a professor? What courses would you happen to teach?
Professor means something different over here. I’m not a Professor. I have two jobs, teach music theory and guitar and work as consultant in food industry usually either prod. development or food processing stuff and special projects, and it pays well but I prefer the music.
I do teach music in schools though sometimes, you don’t need the full pgce to do it like normal teacher but you need certification. I kinda hang out with other teachers though sometimes and just today I shouted at some kids, I bellowed, you should have heard it. It was loud. Plus I am the only person emplyed by my LEA to own a Maserati and smoke cigars so I expect vitriol from the other staff.
[/quote]
Yes, and I also thank you for the “laymen’s” explanation. As to the question earlier of “why do I care?”, it was simply a curiosity. That, and I like to know where “man-made” things come from before I ingest them.
Thanx again Dr. Stig…
I always thought it was scraped off the antlers of a rare asian deer.