Only in heaven, I don’t have allergies and when jet skiers try to enter the gates of heaven, they are immediately transported to the deepest levels of hell.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
[/quote]
Doing the “right thing” is fantastical in the first place. For the honest skeptic, that actually means it, there are no moral obligations.
not just do the right thing, but believe and profess in the divinity of Jesus. that is the only route to heaven.
AND… you can lose your promise of heaven if you fail to believe.
keep in mind, there is no differentiation between the gravity of the sins. if you think about banging your neighbors wife, that is as greiveous as murdering a person. Weird, huh?
Those wacky Christians!!
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I find it weird when people don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus call him a great person. [/quote]
This is an excellent point.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Only in heaven, I don’t have allergies and when jet skiers try to enter the gates of heaven, they are immediately transported to the deepest levels of hell. [/quote]
Nice! When you get a nose full of water is it like instant cold symptoms? Only part I don’t like about skiing, if I get water up my nose and don’t immediately take allergy meds I will be miserable for days.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Only in heaven, I don’t have allergies and when jet skiers try to enter the gates of heaven, they are immediately transported to the deepest levels of hell. [/quote]
Nice! When you get a nose full of water is it like instant cold symptoms? Only part I don’t like about skiing, if I get water up my nose and don’t immediately take allergy meds I will be miserable for days.
[/quote]
If I jump in without pre-taking allergy meds including sudafed, I can’t breath at all before my set is over and by nightfall I want to kill myself. That lake is just a jungle of allergens in the lilly pads. Although, just this week my sister turned me on to an OTC steroidal nasal spray that worked like a miracle.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?[/quote]
First, that’s not heaven. Second, for it to be violent coercion it’d have to be accepted as true. If it were true, Christians would be teaching the truth not coercion. Third, my best understanding of “hell” is that it is defined only as separation from God. Basically, you don’t get in to heaven, exclusion isn’t coercion. Fourth, parenting by nature is violent coercion. Parents are granted special rights over children for that exact reason. You are arguing that libertarians shouldn’t allow parents to “imprison” their children by sending them to their room? Fifth, acts of nature aren’t covered under the libertarian political ideal of non-coersion only acts of men.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?[/quote]
First, that’s not heaven. Second, for it to be violent coercion it’d have to be accepted as true. If it were true, Christians would be teaching the truth not coercion. Third, my best understanding of “hell” is that it is defined only as separation from God. Basically, you don’t get in to heaven, exclusion isn’t coercion. Fourth, parenting by nature is violent coercion. Parents are granted special rights over children for that exact reason. You are arguing that libertarians shouldn’t allow parents to “imprison” their children by sending them to their room? Fifth, acts of nature aren’t covered under the libertarian political ideal of non-coersion only acts of men. [/quote]
Dude, I’m just trolling.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?[/quote]
First, that’s not heaven. Second, for it to be violent coercion it’d have to be accepted as true. If it were true, Christians would be teaching the truth not coercion. Third, my best understanding of “hell” is that it is defined only as separation from God. Basically, you don’t get in to heaven, exclusion isn’t coercion. Fourth, parenting by nature is violent coercion. Parents are granted special rights over children for that exact reason. You are arguing that libertarians shouldn’t allow parents to “imprison” their children by sending them to their room? Fifth, acts of nature aren’t covered under the libertarian political ideal of non-coersion only acts of men. [/quote]
Dude, I’m just trolling.[/quote]
Not very well if you admit it and refuse an argument. I am disappoint.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?[/quote]
First, that’s not heaven. Second, for it to be violent coercion it’d have to be accepted as true. If it were true, Christians would be teaching the truth not coercion. Third, my best understanding of “hell” is that it is defined only as separation from God. Basically, you don’t get in to heaven, exclusion isn’t coercion. Fourth, parenting by nature is violent coercion. Parents are granted special rights over children for that exact reason. You are arguing that libertarians shouldn’t allow parents to “imprison” their children by sending them to their room? Fifth, acts of nature aren’t covered under the libertarian political ideal of non-coersion only acts of men. [/quote]
Dude, I’m just trolling.[/quote]
Not very well if you admit it and refuse an argument. I am disappoint.[/quote]
I know. I just realized after reading your post that I simply don’t have the heart to go on with it. Too much effort, and quite frankly, I don’t care what anyone’s thoughts are about the afterlife anyways.
I think there’s a bit of a misconception about the Christian doctrine of Heaven. Heaven is not a reward for a person who did good works, but is a gift to be connected and in direct relationship once again with God. Just like you said countingbeans, it is that relationship, and we hold faith that Christ was the go-between that reconciled a sinful creation to God, so that such a relationship could continue. Heaven is the gift for those who believe that the answer was already given, ie Christ’s sacrifice. We have no way of doing it on our own, and to not accept the ultimate sacrifice is to decide that you are standing on your own merit and accepting God will judge you accordingly. I see the law as a chain. If we break one link, we’ve offended the entire law. It only takes one murder to be a murderer, one adulterous occasion to be an adulterer, etc. And if we go with the desires of the heart - then under Christ and I would argue Jewish doctrine: lust and hatred are sins themselves because of their malice towards another. There is no one who can claim perfection against the law, hence why God became flesh in order to finish what we never could.
Angry Chicken- you actually have more in common with a strong faithful Christian than you think. It is true many do acts of kindness out of fear or “rules”, however works are supposed to follow a faith and an appreciation that grows from understanding just what God did and gave in order for us to be reconciled. Your acts are out of an appreciation and understanding for where you came from and how hard life can be. That’s our calling too. After seeing where our life was and the change God made within us, we go out and do the same for others because it is an truly awesome thing to be so taken care of. My own story is the cliche one: drugs, alcohol, depression etc. I went through a roller coaster and after I accepted Christ, I slowly became a changed man. Many things went wrong, and things still do, but there is a peace and presence that is always there and keeps me going. I have a fulfillment that no loss of money or any worldly thing can take away. I noticed someone said that things get worse when they ask God for help. It’s funny because that same thing happens when I pray for patience or faith. But when I react with increased patience and faith, I see things completely different. Happened just this week. Nothing in my situation has changed (which is an extremely difficult one right now), but my mood completely did when I stopped trying to solve it myself and got back to deep prayer and seeking. I can’t recall how many times situations have “solved themselves” with amazing results and movements of what I can only credit to as God.
Back to Heaven: A Just God punishes evil just as a Just God blesses good. We all understand that consequences are an acceptable result of an action. We chose to sin against God, and choose to do so everyday. God understands that plight. It’s something we can’t help and are cursed with. Hence, why Christ did what we could not do. Christ was the highway to get back with God and to move forward as he wanted things to be.
as far as the op: I personally believe smh is right. It’s impossible for the mortal mind to truly grasp the immortal. But fwiw: in Christianity, sin is a result of the flesh, which is separate from the spirit. Christian doctrine teaches that the flesh dies as it is destined to do, and the spirit is then united with a new, resurrection flesh (imagery of Christ being resurrected) that is free from the curse (which was death - or the punishment for sin)
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Heaven works the same way Santa bringing you presents on Christmas morning if you behaved well works.
Only children need fantastical promises of rewards in order to do the right thing on a regular basis.
Why don’t Libertarians argue that Heaven is violent coercion?[/quote]
What part is violent?[/quote]
What part of being cast into a fiery pit of eternal damnation against your will is NOT violent?[/quote]
First, that’s not heaven. Second, for it to be violent coercion it’d have to be accepted as true. If it were true, Christians would be teaching the truth not coercion. Third, my best understanding of “hell” is that it is defined only as separation from God. Basically, you don’t get in to heaven, exclusion isn’t coercion. Fourth, parenting by nature is violent coercion. Parents are granted special rights over children for that exact reason. You are arguing that libertarians shouldn’t allow parents to “imprison” their children by sending them to their room? Fifth, acts of nature aren’t covered under the libertarian political ideal of non-coersion only acts of men. [/quote]
Dude, I’m just trolling.[/quote]
Not very well if you admit it and refuse an argument. I am disappoint.[/quote]
I know. I just realized after reading your post that I simply don’t have the heart to go on with it. Too much effort, and quite frankly, I don’t care what anyone’s thoughts are about the afterlife anyways. [/quote]
I am also dissapoint - bad Coop…bad~
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~
[quote]Edgy wrote:
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~[/quote]
ZOMG! You mean different religions have both different beliefs and similar stories, lessons and overall themes?
GTFO!
It’s like… No one could have ever noticed this or brought it up before.
But in all seriousness, I’m not sure if you are just fucking around or actually have some point you don’t want to make clear on purpose.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Edgy wrote:
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~[/quote]
ZOMG! You mean different religions have both different beliefs and similar stories, lessons and overall themes?
GTFO!
It’s like… No one could have ever noticed this or brought it up before.
But in all seriousness, I’m not sure if you are just fucking around or actually have some point you don’t want to make clear on purpose.
[/quote]
I think what he’s saying is that Heaven is a human construct, unlike Valhalla, which is real.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Edgy wrote:
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~[/quote]
ZOMG! You mean different religions have both different beliefs and similar stories, lessons and overall themes?
GTFO!
It’s like… No one could have ever noticed this or brought it up before.
But in all seriousness, I’m not sure if you are just fucking around or actually have some point you don’t want to make clear on purpose.
[/quote]
nah - just new to this forum and not real good at conflict or confrontation, so I’m working with what i have.
I should not be surprised that ya’all have already reached these conclusions regarding religion - this group is smarter than I have given them credit for.
thanks again for walking me through this Beansie~
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Edgy wrote:
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~[/quote]
ZOMG! You mean different religions have both different beliefs and similar stories, lessons and overall themes?
GTFO!
It’s like… No one could have ever noticed this or brought it up before.
But in all seriousness, I’m not sure if you are just fucking around or actually have some point you don’t want to make clear on purpose.
[/quote]
I think what he’s saying is that Heaven is a human construct, unlike Valhalla, which is real.[/quote]
Coop… he GETS me~
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I think what he’s saying is that Heaven is a human construct, [/quote]
Which was basically said on page one a couple of times.
The fact is however informed by scripture, worship, writings, teachings, or divinity someone is (or believes themselves to be) it is all speculation. Interpretation of omnipotence by fallible man is going to have some errors and misunderstandings in it. Hence faith.
[quote]Edgy wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Edgy wrote:
the biblical concept in a heaven is taken from many religions prior to christianity - heaven is not mentioned in the old testament, and is not part of the Jewish belief.
heaven was a creation by the amalgamation of religions as outlined in the compilation of cannonized books as approved by the Nicene council for an established Roman religion.
there, I said it~[/quote]
ZOMG! You mean different religions have both different beliefs and similar stories, lessons and overall themes?
GTFO!
It’s like… No one could have ever noticed this or brought it up before.
But in all seriousness, I’m not sure if you are just fucking around or actually have some point you don’t want to make clear on purpose.
[/quote]
I think what he’s saying is that Heaven is a human construct, unlike Valhalla, which is real.[/quote]
Coop… he GETS me~
[/quote]
When, and how much of you?