How Come We Never See Huge Zercher Lifts?

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
LOL at the lack of “guns a’blazin’” over what Iron Dwarf wrote.[/quote]

you dont say…

I’M COMING FOR YOU IRON DWARF!!![/quote]

Get in line. Gavin is ahead of you.

lol
[/quote]

Careful Greg we all know Gavin likes guys to be behind him. :)[/quote]

So does that mean you spot him during his zercher squats? lol[/quote]

Gavin? Greg? or ID? Sorry man you lost me.[/quote]

[/quote]

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^^Thats how I spot people in the gym when they’re doing reverse hypers

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[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Thats how I spot people in the gym when they’re doing reverse hypers[/quote]

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So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?

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[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.

166

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.

167

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

MAYBE WE SHOULD SHOUT OUR POSTS. SEEMS THAT SOME PEOPLE ONLY “GET IT” WHEN IT’S AT FULL VOLUME.

168

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

Holding another muscle in an isometric contraction while performing a lift to target another body part?

You mean like EXACTLY what you do while performing:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Presses
Incline Presses
Military Presses
Rows
Pulldowns
Pull ups
Bicep Curls
Tricep Extensions
Shrugs
Dips
so on
so forth

Isometric contractions occur all the time and are a crucial part of weight training. Try pressing or pulling without isometrically stabilizing your scapula. Try performing any lower body movement without isometrically contracting your abs and lower back in order to stabilize your spine. Stupid argument is stupid. There is a far higher risk of biceps tendon rupture during a rowing movement with loose form than during a zercher lift. Stupid argument is stupid.

As already mentioned in this thread, the forces placed on the elbow flexors during a zercher lift are no different than the forces placed on the muscles of the upper back during a squat.

What the fuck is a “zercher curl”? Do you even know what we’re talking about here?

And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.

169

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

is hating on ID? lol

I thought I had sufficiently derailed this thread from this mindless back and forth squabbling/bitching/internet pissing contest but I guess not.

170

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

is hating on ID? lol

I thought I had sufficiently derailed this thread from this mindless back and forth squabbling/bitching/internet pissing contest but I guess not.[/quote]

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

is hating on ID? lol

[/quote]

I think it’s fair. ID has made posts regarding X’s larger-than-average penis before. That’s a little…erm…“north” of nuthugging.

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^^Seriously? hahahaha

But in all fairness, X is black… so… ummm… its kind of a given amirightguys?

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[quote]Stronghold wrote:

And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

Wow. Now that’s being an ass. Good work, kid.

174

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

At the risk of blowing your mind, this isn’t a “Should Professor X Zercher Squat?” thread. Stop trolling.

175

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

Your argument has changed though. People came at you (bro) the way they did because you pretty much dismissed the exercise altogether while making a comment along the lines of it being useless if it produces the body type of the guy in the video.

You would not have received the replies you did if your initial post had simply said something like, “I injured my bicep/brachioradialis in the past so this exercise probably wouldn’t be good for me.”

176

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

is hating on ID? lol

[/quote]

I think it’s fair. ID has made posts regarding X’s larger-than-average penis before. That’s a little…erm…“north” of nuthugging.[/quote]

Huh? Funny you’d make it a point to REMEMBER something like that. I can barely remember when or where I stated that… and most likely it was stated in jest.

And just because I agree with a dude doesn’t mean I’m parroting him (you insinuate I don’t have my own opinion).

Your list of exercises and argument do not address what I’m saying. Of course there’s isometric holding in that list of moves. You don’t seem to understand the ridiculous proportion in which the biceps endure the stress of that hold. I don’t see the benefit of performing Zerchers over other, more superior moves for quad development. Sure, maybe it’s fun to do and gives you bragging rights (for whatever reason you feel the need to brag about it), but for the purity of bodybuilding’s sake, it’s an archaic exercise.

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

Your argument has changed though. People came at you (bro) the way they did because you pretty much dismissed the exercise altogether while making a comment along the lines of it being useless if it produces the body type of the guy in the video.

You would not have received the replies you did if your initial post had simply said something like, “I injured my bicep/brachioradialis in the past so this exercise probably wouldn’t be good for me.”[/quote]

My argument hasn’t changed. My argument was that this exercise sucks for those working on physique development…thus why we even discussed the person in that vid and his development.

I responded to another member who had already posted directly. Everyone else decided to do what they usually do. You’ll have to excuse me, but I don’t need the permission of anyone here to post and at no time did my argument change.

178

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
And no one is arguing with Iron Dwarf because 1) he knows how to post in a calm and moderately respectful manner, and 2 )he just parrots whatever you say anyways. His doesn’t count as a second opinion.[/quote]

is hating on ID? lol

[/quote]

I think it’s fair. ID has made posts regarding X’s larger-than-average penis before. That’s a little…erm…“north” of nuthugging.[/quote]

Huh? Funny you’d make it a point to REMEMBER something like that. I can barely remember when or where I stated that… and most likely it was stated in jest.

And just because I agree with a dude doesn’t mean I’m parroting him (you insinuate I don’t have my own opinion).

Your list of exercises and argument do not address what I’m saying. Of course there’s isometric holding in that list of moves. You don’t seem to understand the ridiculous proportion in which the biceps endure the stress of that hold. I don’t see the benefit of performing Zerchers over other, more superior moves for quad development. Sure, maybe it’s fun to do and gives you bragging rights (for whatever reason you feel the need to brag about it), but for the purity of bodybuilding’s sake, it’s an archaic exercise.

[/quote]

I have a penchant for remembering awkward comments, and that one is definitely at the top of the list. Sorry for partying.

Your point about greater stress on the biceps during that isometric contraction is faulty, as they bear at least as much of the load during a row or pulldown/chin movement. As a matter of fact, I did zercher pulls from the pins as part of my back workout today and the strain on my biceps was minimal to the point of not being noticeable. Unless the bar is REALLY rolling forwards, it just sort of sits there in the crook of your arms and the majority of the stress is focused in your upper back. This is something you would have to actually do the exercise to understand and something you would know if you have done them at some point, which leads me to believe that you are commenting on something you’ve never even tried and that you’re full of shit for doing so.

I do understand the proportion of the strain that is involved in holding a zercher position. I did them less than an hour ago. You, given your comments, ironically, don’t seem to understand the exact thing you’re accusing me of not understanding.

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[quote]gregron wrote:

Has anyone in here ever broken their collarbone (clavicle) and since they’ve fully recovered have added front squats back into their routine?

just curious[/quote]

Yup. Got knocked off my bike and as a result, was off training for 8 weeks with a broken collarbone.

Front Squats are still part of my leg routine but I still can’t go as heavy as I used to, which is a shame. Same thing with Snatch (dislocated shoulder), can’t go heavy on that any more.

I now use the straps when doing Front squats(crossed hands before) as my wrists flexibility sucks and using straps makes the weight less taxing for my collarbone.

180

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So after at least 3 people have pointed out that this is not the case, why is X still arguing that zerchers are damaging to the biceps tendon?

Did you miss those posts or are you just replying selectively because you want to argue?

The arms are rotated inward towards the midline of the body, meaning the biceps tendon does not come into contact with the bar. So why are you still fucking arguing that compression of this tendon makes this exercise riskier?[/quote]

It’s not just the biceps tendon making contact, it’s the very point of holding a relatively large load in a static fashion while focusing on a lift that benefits OTHER bodyparts that makes it a potential harmful move. A previously problematic bicep/tendon is greatly compromised in that position over the duration of the set.
[/quote]

I already explained that…several times. I also clearly wrote that the problem is not from just the zercher curl but when someone adds that in with very heavy direct biceps training. I even asked who here is curling that much yet no one answered.

I injured my brachioradialis. Resting a weight on it and then training my biceps as hard as I do would be DUMB…and this has been stated before as well.[/quote]

I’ll take a stab at the biomechanics here. Yes, your biceps tendon is assuming a large amount of weight when doing a Zercher even though, as has been pointed out, the bar is not actually resting on the biceps tendon. However, the weight is so close to the axis of rotation at the elbow that it apparently isn’t creating enough torque to put you at serious risk. This is supported by the lack of accompanying biceps injuries from people who do this lift regularly.

FTR, I have done mid 300s for 4-5 reps, but have never even felt discomfort in my biceps. It seems that everyone in this thread who has done them is also lacking in any kind of injury. Given this information, I think it’s safe to assume it’s not a significant risk in and of itself.

To anyone assuming the bodybuilding perspective, I would say that the jury is still out. I don’t train biceps heavy anywhere close to 2x a week, so I can’t speak to that.