How Big is Too Big?

Training
101

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

It wasn’t necessarily that post[/quote]

Ok then. Now that we have it clear that nothing I wrote here caused your comment to be written, back to the topic.[/quote]

What you wrote about Dan Green caused my comment.

Not only were you wrong to accuse him of something like using synthol, you did it AFTER talking about how you didn’t want to open up the PED can of worms. And like I said earlier, you were WAY fucking off about him.

But you’ll never admit that you were wrong.

X, how much are you weighing these days? Still “150lbs?”[/quote]

CT also wrote that “while he does look like it”…so you seem to be just jumping around looking for things to complain.

I am surely apologetic for daring to believe the man used synthol…even if as CT wrote, it does look like it.

I hope that makes you feel better.[/quote]

Kinda like how you were jumping around (Can you jump around at your BW?) looking for things to complain about while looking at Dan Greens picture. You know, the guy who’s more impressive than you.

Just because something “looks a certain way” doesn’t mean it is. Your claims to “losing 3 inches off your waist while gaining 10 lbs” would SEEM that you’re on as much AAS as Dan Green, but you claim you’re not.

How much are you weighing these days, X? Still “150lbs”?

102

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

It wasn’t necessarily that post[/quote]

Ok then. Now that we have it clear that nothing I wrote here caused your comment to be written, back to the topic.[/quote]

What you wrote about Dan Green caused my comment.

Not only were you wrong to accuse him of something like using synthol, you did it AFTER talking about how you didn’t want to open up the PED can of worms. And like I said earlier, you were WAY fucking off about him.

But you’ll never admit that you were wrong.

X, how much are you weighing these days? Still “150lbs?”[/quote]

CT also wrote that “while he does look like it”…so you seem to be just jumping around looking for things to complain.

I am surely apologetic for daring to believe the man used synthol…even if as CT wrote, it does look like it.

I hope that makes you feel better.[/quote]

LOLOL

The fact that in my first post I said he was a world record POWERLIFTER (synthol would FUCK HIM UP)…and then YOU claimed synthol…in a matter of fact tone, like you would know him.

It’s so X like… it’s mind boggling.

103

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

Kinda like how you were jumping around (Can you jump around at your BW?) looking for things to complain about while looking at Dan Greens picture. You know, the guy who’s more impressive than you.

Just because something “looks a certain way” doesn’t mean it is. Your claims to “losing 3 inches off your waist while gaining 10 lbs” would SEEM that you’re on as much AAS as Dan Green, but you claim you’re not.

How much are you weighing these days, X? Still “150lbs”?[/quote]

Could you explain what any of this has to do with the topic?

104

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree that there are “cons” to being bigger, but honestly, aside from true medical issues like sleep apnea (which I had at 290+lbs), I wouldn’t base my goals on that. [/quote]

That is obviously completely fair enough. However it seems that the majority of posters in this thread want to get bigger/stronger/leaner as a means to improve their quality of life, rather than doing so regardless of their quality of life. Therefore it makes no sense for them to pursue additional size at a compromise to other aspects of their wellbeing and athletic ability.

Each to their own goals I say.

105

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

Kinda like how you were jumping around (Can you jump around at your BW?) looking for things to complain about while looking at Dan Greens picture. You know, the guy who’s more impressive than you.

Just because something “looks a certain way” doesn’t mean it is. Your claims to “losing 3 inches off your waist while gaining 10 lbs” would SEEM that you’re on as much AAS as Dan Green, but you claim you’re not.

How much are you weighing these days, X? Still “150lbs”?[/quote]

Could you explain what any of this has to do with the topic?
[/quote]

We are responding to you…after you attacked our responses to the thread topic.

Just because they are not what you wanted to hear.

“OMG you can NEVER be too swollz…not being able to tie your shoes is teh AWESOMENESS”

106

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

Kinda like how you were jumping around (Can you jump around at your BW?) looking for things to complain about while looking at Dan Greens picture. You know, the guy who’s more impressive than you.

Just because something “looks a certain way” doesn’t mean it is. Your claims to “losing 3 inches off your waist while gaining 10 lbs” would SEEM that you’re on as much AAS as Dan Green, but you claim you’re not.

How much are you weighing these days, X? Still “150lbs”?[/quote]

Could you explain what any of this has to do with the topic?
[/quote]

Asking your bodyweight is irrelevant in a thread about what constitutes “too big”?

I would say “too big” is when one is so large that he develops an aura of self-importance and a tone of condescension to go along with his physical size.

107

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
For me my reasons for my pursuits go something like this in order:
The ability to do shit. (run, lift heavy stuff outside the gym, open stuck jars, est.)
Health and wellness
My love of training (the training as its own reward)
Build (size, muscularity, looking good naked)

So for me, if gaining weight, and especially fat, quickly dip into not worth it territory. The real question for me (and I think should be for anyone) is, ?is getting bigger going to make my life better?? If it can get me to my next goal in a lift, or make me look better maybe yes. If I have to increase my triglycerides, and walk instead of run with my dogs, probably not.
[/quote]

Spot on.[/quote]

lol, yeah I had an “American History X” moment a while back. Where the black teacher asks “But has anything you’ve done made your life better?” and dumbfounds the racist dude because the answer is “no”.

Our ultimate goal should always be to increase in goodness, joy, and happiness. But people pick goals that lead them away from that. We are irrational beings.

108

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree that there are “cons” to being bigger, but honestly, aside from true medical issues like sleep apnea (which I had at 290+lbs), I wouldn’t base my goals on that. [/quote]

That is obviously completely fair enough. However it seems that the majority of posters in this thread want to get bigger/stronger/leaner as a means to improve their quality of life, rather than doing so regardless of their quality of life. Therefore it makes no sense for them to pursue additional size at a compromise to other aspects of their wellbeing and athletic ability.

Each to their own goals I say. [/quote]

Agreed, but the bottom line is, no one is getting really big without some compromise in that area.

That is why there is a periodization to training…some attempt to focus on one or a few aspects at a time.

109

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
For me my reasons for my pursuits go something like this in order:
The ability to do shit. (run, lift heavy stuff outside the gym, open stuck jars, est.)
Health and wellness
My love of training (the training as its own reward)
Build (size, muscularity, looking good naked)

So for me, if gaining weight, and especially fat, quickly dip into not worth it territory. The real question for me (and I think should be for anyone) is, ?is getting bigger going to make my life better?? If it can get me to my next goal in a lift, or make me look better maybe yes. If I have to increase my triglycerides, and walk instead of run with my dogs, probably not.
[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more.

110

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
This to me is about ideal, Dan Green one of the best powerlifters to ever live…also an amazing physique.

The density is unreal.

I believe he is around 230-240 here.

Dez would know better than me.[/quote]

His delts almost look syntholed they stand out so much.[/quote]

That is synthol…and I try to stay away from that debate.[/quote]

Altough it does look like it, the guy is a high level powerlifter, not bodybuilder. Synthol would actually be detrimental to a powerlifter… it would increase the risk of injuries in the bench press and mobility in the squat (to grab the bar). So I honestly doubt that it is synthol even though it looks like it.[/quote]

It looks to me like CT pretty much completely disagreed with your assumption. So, not really sure why you are trying to use him to further your argument, X. CT clearly states that there would be no reason for him to be using synthol, which should have been pretty obvious to you since you have been in the game so long. Why would a powerlifter need to use synth? You really need to stop acting like CT gives you the right to say the things you do. He didn’t even agree with you.

111

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
For me my reasons for my pursuits go something like this in order:
The ability to do shit. (run, lift heavy stuff outside the gym, open stuck jars, est.)
Health and wellness
My love of training (the training as its own reward)
Build (size, muscularity, looking good naked)

So for me, if gaining weight, and especially fat, quickly dip into not worth it territory. The real question for me (and I think should be for anyone) is, ?is getting bigger going to make my life better?? If it can get me to my next goal in a lift, or make me look better maybe yes. If I have to increase my triglycerides, and walk instead of run with my dogs, probably not.
[/quote]

Spot on.[/quote]

lol, yeah I had an “American History X” moment a while back. Where the black teacher asks “But has anything you’ve done made your life better?” and dumbfounds the racist dude because the answer is “no”.

Our ultimate goal should always be to increase in goodness, joy, and happiness. But people pick goals that lead them away from that. We are irrational beings.[/quote]

I just watched that the other day. Really powerful movie.

112

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree that there are “cons” to being bigger, but honestly, aside from true medical issues like sleep apnea (which I had at 290+lbs), I wouldn’t base my goals on that. [/quote]

That is obviously completely fair enough. However it seems that the majority of posters in this thread want to get bigger/stronger/leaner as a means to improve their quality of life, rather than doing so regardless of their quality of life. Therefore it makes no sense for them to pursue additional size at a compromise to other aspects of their wellbeing and athletic ability.

Each to their own goals I say. [/quote]

Agreed, but the bottom line is, no one is getting really big without some compromise in that area.

That is why there is a periodization to training…some attempt to focus on one or a few aspects at a time.[/quote]

Exactly, but I am not willing to make those compromises for size alone. I like some additional size but only to the point that it has a no better than negligible effect on athletic qualities (endurance, speed, mobility). So the point where size starts to decrease those more than I think is acceptable (and that point of acceptability is different for everyone) is the point I think is too big.

113

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree that there are “cons” to being bigger, but honestly, aside from true medical issues like sleep apnea (which I had at 290+lbs), I wouldn’t base my goals on that. [/quote]

That is obviously completely fair enough. However it seems that the majority of posters in this thread want to get bigger/stronger/leaner as a means to improve their quality of life, rather than doing so regardless of their quality of life. Therefore it makes no sense for them to pursue additional size at a compromise to other aspects of their wellbeing and athletic ability.

Each to their own goals I say. [/quote]

Agreed, but the bottom line is, no one is getting really big without some compromise in that area.

That is why there is a periodization to training…some attempt to focus on one or a few aspects at a time.[/quote]

Exactly, but I am not willing to make those compromises for size alone. I like some additional size but only to the point that it has a no better than negligible effect on athletic qualities (endurance, speed, mobility). So the point where size starts to decrease those more than I think is acceptable (and that point of acceptability is different for everyone) is the point I think is too big. [/quote]

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?

114

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
This to me is about ideal, Dan Green one of the best powerlifters to ever live…also an amazing physique.

The density is unreal.

I believe he is around 230-240 here.

Dez would know better than me.[/quote]

His delts almost look syntholed they stand out so much.[/quote]

That is synthol…and I try to stay away from that debate.[/quote]

Altough it does look like it, the guy is a high level powerlifter, not bodybuilder. Synthol would actually be detrimental to a powerlifter… it would increase the risk of injuries in the bench press and mobility in the squat (to grab the bar). So I honestly doubt that it is synthol even though it looks like it.[/quote]

It looks to me like CT pretty much completely disagreed with your assumption. So, not really sure why you are trying to use him to further your argument, X. CT clearly states that there would be no reason for him to be using synthol, which should have been pretty obvious to you since you have been in the game so long. Why would a powerlifter need to use synth? You really need to stop acting like CT gives you the right to say the things you do. He didn’t even agree with you.
[/quote]

I wasn’t furthering my argument.

I even apologized for saying he used synthol.

What you see is CT being able to disagree with someone without the personal attacks.

Yes, you should take notes.

115

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?[/quote]

Which issues are only temporary?

I’m guessing that things like the ability to sprint for a bus or climb a wall or go for a long hike cannot be fully maintained at very heavy bodyweights, regardless of how long you condition at that weight for (though I’m sure they can be improved somewhat).

I am genuinely intrigued by this topic, I don’t mean to sound like I’m antagonising you.

How do YOU feel that your current size impacts (or doesn’t impact) your ability to perform activities such as these?

116

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?[/quote]

Which issues are only temporary? [/quote]

Things like being a little more out of breath at a new higher body weight during your workout. These things can be trained to better your condition at that same weight. It just takes more time.

[quote]

I’m guessing that things like the ability to sprint for a bus or climb a wall or go for a long hike cannot be fully maintained at very heavy bodyweights, regardless of how long you condition at that weight for (though I’m sure they can be improved somewhat).[/quote]

Well, that depends on how heavy you are and how long you stay there.

Someone may be more out of breath on a hike at a new 240lbs body weight. That doesn’t mean they will be 3 months later if they train more specifically for that.

I think when I first hit this weight, it was a hassle. That was years back though and I am carrying way more muscle now vs body fat at that same weight. My conditioning is way better than it has been…mostly because I changed how I trained since meeting with CT.

So, yeah, I admit that it can be a problem…but I also know it is one that can be worked around unless truly carrying some monstrous size.

117

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?[/quote]

Which issues are only temporary? [/quote]

Things like being a little more out of breath at a new higher body weight during your workout. These things can be trained to better your condition at that same weight. It just takes more time.

[quote]

I’m guessing that things like the ability to sprint for a bus or climb a wall or go for a long hike cannot be fully maintained at very heavy bodyweights, regardless of how long you condition at that weight for (though I’m sure they can be improved somewhat).[/quote]

Well, that depends on how heavy you are and how long you stay there.

Someone may be more out of breath on a hike at a new 240lbs body weight. That doesn’t mean they will be 3 months later if they train more specifically for that.

I think when I first hit this weight, it was a hassle. That was years back though and I am carrying way more muscle now vs body fat at that same weight. My conditioning is way better than it has been…mostly because I changed how I trained since meeting with CT.

So, yeah, I admit that it can be a problem…but I also know it is one that can be worked around unless truly carrying some monstrous size.[/quote]

Thanks for the info, I’ve often wondered about that. To be honest I noticed similar changes myself when I reached 225lbs for the first time (lol - not very heavy). At first I felt like a slug but over the course of a year I conditioned to it and felt more lively (for want of a better word) at that weight. Now I’ve cut down to 210lbs and feel even better. Anyway, went off on a ramble there. Thanks again.

118

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree that there are “cons” to being bigger, but honestly, aside from true medical issues like sleep apnea (which I had at 290+lbs), I wouldn’t base my goals on that. [/quote]

That is obviously completely fair enough. However it seems that the majority of posters in this thread want to get bigger/stronger/leaner as a means to improve their quality of life, rather than doing so regardless of their quality of life. Therefore it makes no sense for them to pursue additional size at a compromise to other aspects of their wellbeing and athletic ability.

Each to their own goals I say. [/quote]

Agreed, but the bottom line is, no one is getting really big without some compromise in that area.

That is why there is a periodization to training…some attempt to focus on one or a few aspects at a time.[/quote]

Exactly, but I am not willing to make those compromises for size alone. I like some additional size but only to the point that it has a no better than negligible effect on athletic qualities (endurance, speed, mobility). So the point where size starts to decrease those more than I think is acceptable (and that point of acceptability is different for everyone) is the point I think is too big. [/quote]

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?[/quote]

I think that I could probably push the envelope some with regards to weight and spend some time with mobility and speed drills and working on endurance. I do think, however, that there is def a sweet spot for athletic traits in regards to size (and this will vary depending on individual physiology). For instance, I don’t think that Usain Bolt could gain 40 lbs of LBM and ever get to the point that he is as fast as he is currently. Much the same that Tim Tebow said his 40 time and throwing distance actually improved this year after dropping some muscle.

119

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Question, what happens if you understand that those issues are only temporary if you continue to work on conditioning at that new weight and it is a muscular gain?[/quote]

Which issues are only temporary? [/quote]

Things like being a little more out of breath at a new higher body weight during your workout. These things can be trained to better your condition at that same weight. It just takes more time.

[quote]

I’m guessing that things like the ability to sprint for a bus or climb a wall or go for a long hike cannot be fully maintained at very heavy bodyweights, regardless of how long you condition at that weight for (though I’m sure they can be improved somewhat).[/quote]

Well, that depends on how heavy you are and how long you stay there.

Someone may be more out of breath on a hike at a new 240lbs body weight. That doesn’t mean they will be 3 months later if they train more specifically for that.

I think when I first hit this weight, it was a hassle. That was years back though and I am carrying way more muscle now vs body fat at that same weight. My conditioning is way better than it has been…mostly because I changed how I trained since meeting with CT.

So, yeah, I admit that it can be a problem…but I also know it is one that can be worked around unless truly carrying some monstrous size.[/quote]

I think the endurance aspect could definitely be brought up to snuff unless we are talking about behemoth amounts of size.

Let me ask you this X, Do you feel like you would be faster in something like the 40 if you dropped weight? How do you feel your top speed and acceleration is now compared to if you were lighter?

By the way, good thread topic.

120

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

I think that I could probably push the envelope some with regards to weight and spend some time with mobility and speed drills and working on endurance. I do think, however, that there is def a sweet spot for athletic traits in regards to size (and this will vary depending on individual physiology). For instance, I don’t think that Usain Bolt could gain 40 lbs of LBM and ever get to the point that he is as fast as he is currently. Much the same that Tim Tebow said his 40 time and throwing distance actually improved this year after dropping some muscle.[/quote]

I know this isn’t your stance…but I wanted to comment on the “all around athlete” mind set many lifters seem to have lately.

Bolt probably wouldn’t make a great offensive lineman.

Just making a point about those with a goal of LARGE muscular size…it already has to be something you train specifically for in itself.