Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[/quote]
No, the terms used could have meant anything from male prostitute from soft, lazy and effeminate.
Off to your Greek lessons. [/quote]
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
???[/quote]
Yeah?
So?
Seems to me that you assume quite a lot when it comes to what Paul deemed natural or seemly. [/quote]
“men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another”
And certainly in the context of the old testament…
You are really claiming that the new testament doesn’t same homosexuality is bad? really?
What, in your Greek expertise, is he talking about then?
[quote]orion wrote:
Also, I thought being Christian meant following the teachings of Christ.
I reject the attempt of the Paulbots to undermine Jesus message. [/quote]
lol. Okay, what was his message then?
Pretty certain JC had the highest standards of all. He changes the way we deal with sin and sinners, he didn’t change what a sin was. Adultery was still bad, you just shouldn’t stone people for it. Now, “go forth and be perfect”.
Jesus entire ministry was conducted under the old covenant. The day of Pentecost in the 2nd chapter of the acts of the apostles ushered in the church age we are living in now. Hyooj topics here, but homosexuality is comprehensively condemned everywhere in scripture and universally affirmed as such throughout the whole of history among absolutely every orthodox Christian communion there has ever been. So has a very large list of other terrible sins that are also comprehensively condemned everywhere in scripture.
Jesus died and rose EXACTLY to deliver people from those sins and the spiritual death that produces them. ALL sins are forgivable in Christ (except rejection of Christ Himself), but they are sins nonetheless. If you don’t like that? Find some false religion to practice. Christianity is now and forevermore utterly incompatible with homosexuality and every other openly practiced unrepentant sin actually.
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[/quote]
No, the terms used could have meant anything from male prostitute from soft, lazy and effeminate.
Off to your Greek lessons. [/quote]
Stop trolling. Christ himself restates the composition of marriage, where sex is proper. Male and female. Homosexual sex is then always sinful. Just knock it off.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
The article fails to mention that the policy went under review after one of these Christians frats forced an openly gay member to resign.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Making an exception for a Christian group would be considered a privilege.
[/quote]
Yes, making an exception for any group is considered privilege. So now if a far right conservative who thinks homosexuality is incredibly immoral becomes a prominent member of the LGBT club and starts openly promoting gay sex as a sin, and saying gays will burn in hell unless they repent, he cannot be removed by the members of the club.
If I was at this school I would do join the LGBT club just to troll everyone. Of course we know I would get kicked out without much of a fuss.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
The article fails to mention that the policy went under review after one of these Christians frats forced an openly gay member to resign.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Making an exception for a Christian group would be considered a privilege.
[/quote]
Yes, making an exception for any group is considered privilege. So now if a far right conservative who thinks homosexuality is incredibly immoral becomes a prominent member of the LGBT club and starts openly promoting gay sex as a sin, and saying gays will burn in hell unless they repent, he cannot be removed by the members of the club.
If I was at this school I would do join the LGBT club just to troll everyone. Of course we know I would get kicked out without much of a fuss.[/quote]
This was already addressed in the thread
Also, if you’re a straight male I’d be very surprised if you could spend a lot of time around a group of gay men.
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< Also, if you’re a straight male I’d be very surprised if you could spend a lot of time around a group of gay men. >>>[/quote]And if you’re any kind of non Christian (there’s really only one kind though) you aren’t likely to enjoy the company of serious Christians either. Unless the Holy Spirit is drawing you in which case you might. Would actually, at least eventually.
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< Also, if you’re a straight male I’d be very surprised if you could spend a lot of time around a group of gay men. >>>[/quote]And if you’re any kind of non Christian (there’s really only one kind though) you aren’t likely to enjoy the company of serious Christians either. Unless the Holy Spirit is drawing you in which case you might. Would actually, at least eventually.
[/quote]
Are Church of Christ, Scientist attenders considered serious Christians? The ones all about faith healing.
I hang around one all the time… or are they going to hell too?
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< Also, if you’re a straight male I’d be very surprised if you could spend a lot of time around a group of gay men. >>>[/quote]And if you’re any kind of non Christian (there’s really only one kind though) you aren’t likely to enjoy the company of serious Christians either. Unless the Holy Spirit is drawing you in which case you might. Would actually, at least eventually.
[/quote]
Are Church of Christ, Scientist attenders considered serious Christians? The ones all about faith healing.
I hang around one all the time… or are they going to hell too?[/quote]That is a non Christian cult founded by Mary Baker Eddy who wrote science and health with key to the scriptures (something like that) which I once owned several editions of. It is more akin to the gnostic heresies condemned in the first three centuries than it is to the actual gospel of Christ. Nobody goes to hell because they’re in a non Christian cult.
I knew a couple of guy guys in the Indian students Association who would take their white-Canadian girlfriends to meetings where they were treated as equal members.
[/quote]
Would they be allowed to become members? What about crocodiles? What if someone brought a crocodile with them? Could the crocodile become a member? Idiot.[/quote]
Come on. You can’t seriously be comparing the inappropriateness of a live fucking crocodile in a group setting to the inappropriateness of an openly-gay person in a church-focused interest group?
This whole issue seems almost deceivingly cut and dry to me. I don’t see any reason why a religious group can’t keep gays out of their assembly. That’s what we’re talking about here, really; the right to assembly. But I don’t think that this right also includes the right to belong to any assemblage of people that they so choose. That would actually seem to infringe upon the right to assembly, since if a group were forced to allow any and all members, they might end up being overrun by an infiltration of people opposing the group in a move toward derailing them. It would seem unreasonable to force a group to expose its right to assembly to this sort of undermining action.
Many early expansions of free-speech by the Supreme Court were justified based upon the thinking that the better way to fight offensive speech, such as burning the American flag at an anti-Vietnam War rally, was to use speech against these offenders rather than disallow their actions entirely via the Court. In other words, fight the American flag-burning by holding a rally and burning a Viet Cong flag.
I think in this case the legal avenue for anyone excluded from a religious organization on campus by virtue of their overt homosexuality is to start a group of their own that focuses on gay rights within society, or something like that, rather than try to bar the religious group from exercising this right to assembly.
HOWEVER, we are talking about Vanderbilt University in this particular case. Not the University of Tennessee. A private institution gets to play by different rules than a public one. In much the same way that, in my amateur opinion regarding Constitutional rights about assembly, the right to assembly may be protected in such a manner that allows for exclusion, a private university may have that same sort of privilege about what sort of assemblies happen under its purview. I’m not sure, but I think from a purely Constitutional standpoint Vandy may have the right to disband a school-affiliated organization for more legitimate reasons than a public one can and those reasons might extend this far.
So I don’t know what to make of this issue, really. If I were more well-versed on the rights of the university in terms of who assembles on their campus I might be able to make more of it. But right now, it seems to me that the same logic that allows an organization to essentially discriminate is the logic that allows a private entity to discriminate against organizations under its auspices.
Come on. You can’t seriously be comparing the inappropriateness of a live fucking crocodile in a group setting to the inappropriateness of an openly-gay person in a church-focused interest group?[/quote]
I was making a point about relativism. Also, he’s trying to argue against the right of a Christian church to exclude non-Christians yet the example he gives is an Indian Student group that DOESN’T allow people who aren’t Indian students to join.
Come on. You can’t seriously be comparing the inappropriateness of a live fucking crocodile in a group setting to the inappropriateness of an openly-gay person in a church-focused interest group?[/quote]
I was making a point about relativism. Also, he’s trying to argue against the right of a Christian church to exclude non-Christians yet the example he gives is an Indian Student group that DOESN’T allow people who aren’t Indian students to join.[/quote]
Come on. You can’t seriously be comparing the inappropriateness of a live fucking crocodile in a group setting to the inappropriateness of an openly-gay person in a church-focused interest group?[/quote]
I was making a point about relativism. Also, he’s trying to argue against the right of a Christian church to exclude non-Christians yet the example he gives is an Indian Student group that DOESN’T allow people who aren’t Indian students to join.[/quote]
I was actually making the opposite point.
Non-Indians were welcomed.
[/quote]
Regardless of whether an Indian Student group does or doesn’t allow non-Indians to join, or whether a Christian group does or doesn’t allow non-Christians to join, I strongly suspect that legal precedent at the Supreme Court level would show that these groups have the right to decide for themselves who can and cannot join. But I think the issue may hinge entirely upon under whose name, title, jurisdiction, affiliation, etc. the group(s) in question fall under.
Come on. You can’t seriously be comparing the inappropriateness of a live fucking crocodile in a group setting to the inappropriateness of an openly-gay person in a church-focused interest group?[/quote]
I was making a point about relativism. Also, he’s trying to argue against the right of a Christian church to exclude non-Christians yet the example he gives is an Indian Student group that DOESN’T allow people who aren’t Indian students to join.[/quote]
It’s not a church it’s a Christian GROUP. We have one of those on our campus. They’re constantly around trying to ‘convert’ people. They host fundraiser and stuff like that.
But honestly, what’s a gay guy doing trying to hang around with Christians. They can’t possibly have the same beliefs or even interests. I’m surprised the group didn’t stone this guy.
And for everyones information, I’m part of the reggae club at my school. Jamaican rum Wednesdays be the shit yo!