The thing is I don’t view the sort of fast-food, amorphous, fungible, monoculturalism of progressive thought as multiculturalism. Multiculturalism to me is the ability of very real, identifiable, cultures to live side by side, in peace, under the law. This idea that cultures are merely t-shirts to be changed is the monoculture. The spicy or fried foods, the attire, and dances, just empty window-dressing on a monoculture that says attitudes and beliefs must be completely open to all, except for the fact that they MUST be completely open.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Would you allow an atheist to join a Christian group?
Even if I had 0 intention of accepting Jesus Christ and only had the single goal of gaining a better understanding of the Christian worldview?[/quote]
No. Go read a book. Maybe, come in as a silent guest. But not as a member of a…Christian group. Society has failed to strangle the common sense out of me.[/quote]
Okay, now for my follow up question.
There’s a sizeable cohort of Christians that do not consider Roman Catholics to be Christians. IIRC our very own Tribulus is in this camp.
If the campus Christian group did not want to allow Catholics to join their group, would you also be okay with that?[/quote]
There are 36,000 protestant denominations world wide. Tirib’s very narrow view comes from the fringe group known as Reformed Baptist. Apparently, regular Baptists are to liberal. Anyhow, the point is of the 36,000, the vast majority consider us Catholic’s Christian…They kind of have to if you look at history.
The reason for 36,000 denominations? It’s call sola scriptura. It lists the bible alone as the central authority. The philosophy behind that is that the bible is clear about what it says therefore you don’t need any governing body’s to wield authority.
The evidence of that epic fail is the 36,000 denominations who all have just an ass-hairs difference in bible interpretation. If it were truly that clear, there would only be one church, not 36,000.
Sloth is right though, joining a Christian group as a devout atheist is like a pro-lifer joining NARAL. The word “Christian” kind of presumes you believe in Christ.[/quote]
Most of this Christian consensus argument was refuted in the “Can a Christian Explain to Me…” thread by jj-dude.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m not sure why you believe this, to my knowledge only the Christian frat is having issues.
[/quote]
Well, sure. Christian = politically correct target. Openly anti-affirmative action/employment law whites into the black club…Or, openly fundamentalist Christians into the LGBT club…let them get removed…this wouldn’t have even been a story.[/quote]
If the openly gay member was disrupting the Christian group I would be all for their removal.
If he/she is simply there taking part in prayer and happens to be gay then I wouldn’t.
[/quote]
The mistake your making here is that being or not being a Christian is a personal choice, it’s really not up to a group. If an openly gay person wants to be Christian it’s his choice, but he has to deal with all that brings including that fact that homosexual act is roundly condemned cover to cover in the bible. So that’s a part of his life he has to reconcile with God.
That being said, we all have are own baggage, so the homosexual is not alone in his life long battle with sin. [/quote]
Do you agree that Gays can’t be Christians?
The last line of your post makes me think you don’t.
[/quote]
Gays, in these sense that they are actively acknowledging their proclivity for this particular sin, struggling to gain command of it, can be christians. All sinners can be Christians, and all Christians are sinners. Openly gay, openly fornicator, openly robber, openly porn star, openly rapist…a different matter all together.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m not sure why you believe this, to my knowledge only the Christian frat is having issues.
[/quote]
Well, sure. Christian = politically correct target. Openly anti-affirmative action/employment law whites into the black club…Or, openly fundamentalist Christians into the LGBT club…let them get removed…this wouldn’t have even been a story.[/quote]
If the openly gay member was disrupting the Christian group I would be all for their removal.
If he/she is simply there taking part in prayer and happens to be gay then I wouldn’t.
[/quote]
The mistake your making here is that being or not being a Christian is a personal choice, it’s really not up to a group. If an openly gay person wants to be Christian it’s his choice, but he has to deal with all that brings including that fact that homosexual act is roundly condemned cover to cover in the bible. So that’s a part of his life he has to reconcile with God.
That being said, we all have are own baggage, so the homosexual is not alone in his life long battle with sin. [/quote]
Do you agree that Gays can’t be Christians?
The last line of your post makes me think you don’t.
[/quote]
The base requisite for being a Christian is believe in Jesus as God and accept Him as that. So yes, absolutely they can be Christians. They just have a particular struggle in that they are gay, which I believe they are born with.
Look the piano player at my church is queer as a $3 bill. I have met his partner before. Nobody has kicked him out, everybody is nice to him and treats him no different than anybody else.
His relationship with God is his own and it’s not my place to judge it. However, if he asked me if I thought it is a sin, I have to answer yes.
Keep in mind though, that we all sin, so he has his struggles and I have mine and we all have are own. For all I know he has a better relationship with God than I do.
The First Amendment guarantees the “right of association.”
A fundamental part of the “right of association” is the “right of dissassociation” — that is, the freedom of a group of people to decide who is, and who is not, part of their group.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Multiculturalism to me is the ability of very real, identifiable, cultures to live side by side, in peace, under the law. This idea that cultures are merely t-shirts to be changed is the monoculture. [/quote]
Kind of like the word “diversity”, too. In corporate lingo the terms “diversity” and “multiculturalism” mean defining individuals by a particular group they happen to identify with. Under this banner all groups except for white men can be celebrated. If it is brought up, that person is promptly labeled a racist/sexist/etc and sent to sensitivity training.
I say if diversity or multiculturalism really matters then every individual should count as being not only individually diverse but culturally as well and groups don’t matter one bit.
I hate these word.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
The First Amendment guarantees the “right of association.”
A fundamental part of the “right of association” is the “right of dissassociation” — that is, the freedom of a group of people to decide who is, and who is not, part of their group.[/quote]
Well said. Some people seem to think “freedom of association” means “the right to associate with anyone you want, whether they like it or not”.
They want the “heads”, but not the “tails”.
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So can an openly gay person be a Christian?
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
I dont believe jesus ever said that…
[/quote]
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT…
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I knew a couple of guy guys in the Indian students Association who would take their white-Canadian girlfriends to meetings where they were treated as equal members.
[/quote]
Would they be allowed to become members? What about crocodiles? What if someone brought a crocodile with them? Could the crocodile become a member? Idiot.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So can an openly gay person be a Christian?
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
I dont believe jesus ever said that…
[/quote]
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
How much religious privilege do you require before you’re happy?
[/quote]
“Privilege,” huh? Really? “Privilege?”[/quote]
Sure is.
School has it’s rules and is allowed to change them.
If they don’t want their school clubs to be exclusionary well… tough luck.
Making an exception for a Christian group would be considered a privilege.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I knew a couple of guy guys in the Indian students Association who would take their white-Canadian girlfriends to meetings where they were treated as equal members.
[/quote]
Would they be allowed to become members? What about crocodiles? What if someone brought a crocodile with them? Could the crocodile become a member? Idiot.[/quote]
Why do you wanna join?
Btw having bad skin doesn’t make you a crocodile.
[quote]pat wrote:<<< Tirib’s very narrow view comes from the fringe group known as Reformed Baptist. >>>[/quote]18 months. Over and over and over again. All for naught. It just so happens that Trib’s fringe theology, forget the group designation, was the majority view at the first constitutional convention.
As for gays being Christians? Sloth is pretty much right. Every Christian wars with sin while in this body of death. (Romans 7) most definitely including me. People who are tempted with same sex attraction can and are truly regenerate members of the invisible body of Christ. Born again in truth in other words. They are known by their hatred of their sin. Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit of the living God radically transforms a dead man unto life. They WILL hate what God hates and love what God loves. God will give victory and they can be delivered from that abominable lifestyle though the internal struggle may remain. I know such people.
Can a child murdering pedophile be a Christian? Same answer. There is NO sin more powerful than the blood and resurrection of the Jesus Christ I know and love. David Berkowitz, the world famous NYC “son of sam” killer is, I believe, a partaker in the resurrection life of the same Jesus I know and love as well. He refuses parole because he feels that he deserves his sentence for what he did and he has ministry there. I have every reason to believe he will be in heaven.
Openly gay and unrepentant people who think that the eternally capitol crime of perverting God’s covenant is compatible with the gospel are sorely deluded and will remain under the sentence of death unless repentance and faith in the atoning death, burial and resurrection of the only begotten Son of God, which is the only escape, is forthcoming.
ANYONE seeking God should be allowed in any meeting where true Christians are presiding. ANYONE without a credible testimony and no interest in one should not.
Edited:was in a hurry this morning
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So can an openly gay person be a Christian?
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
I dont believe jesus ever said that…
[/quote]
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[/quote]
No, the terms used could have meant anything from male prostitute from soft, lazy and effeminate.
Off to your Greek lessons.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So can an openly gay person be a Christian?
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
I dont believe jesus ever said that…
[/quote]
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[/quote]
No, the terms used could have meant anything from male prostitute from soft, lazy and effeminate.
Off to your Greek lessons. [/quote]
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
???
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So can an openly gay person be a Christian?
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
I dont believe jesus ever said that…
[/quote]
Well, you see, all those pesky rules were part of the covenant with the Jewish people and can be safely ignored because Jesus made it all different, EXCEPT… [/quote]
No, sorry. New Testament actually reinforces sexual morality. But thanks for trying. Off to school.
[/quote]
No, the terms used could have meant anything from male prostitute from soft, lazy and effeminate.
Off to your Greek lessons. [/quote]
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
???[/quote]
Yeah?
So?
Seems to me that you assume quite a lot when it comes to what Paul deemed natural or seemly.
In case anyone wondered if you google “thats gay” you get 1.020.000.000 hits.
Might it be possible, that words meanings are in constant flux and that gay, which in and of itself simply meant happy-is not so long ago, can carry quite a lot of meanings.
Well, thank God that the people 2000 years ago were not as super sophisticated as we are, so we have no problem to know exactly what they meant.