So in my quest I plan on getting into HGH or GHRH at some point in the very near future. I have tried doing very extensive research but unfortunately have come to the conclusion that there are no solid answers to my questions. So I’ll take a crack here and see if hopefully there are some gh experts here:
I have found conflicting results in regards to normal excretion of GH in late teens to early 20’s. Ideally I would like to use that number and start by doubling it. But since there are so many views on iu’s produced daily, I will just ask:
What are the common dosages someone would use to acheive hyperplasia (splitting of cells for muscle growth)?
Does anyone know of a log by a current IFBB pro in regards to their GH and AAS usage to use as a template?
I am not aware of any, but, what other chems would be used to produce hyperplasia (minus slin as I would prefer to avoid)?
The staple seems to be test and hgh, however, do you know of any direct sides related to hgh and tren’s combined usage?
Fwiw, stats:
27yrs
5’10-5’11
230-235lb @ 12-13%
One 9 1/2 week cycle of 750mg/ wk test-cyp that resulted in 16lb gain
Future cycle: 12 weeks of 250 test-cyp and 10 weeks starting at 500mg/wk tren (possibly working up to 750mg if sides are mild)
Training for IFBB if genetics dont foil my plan. I am aiming for 250lbs+ LBM and I am well aware that will not happen without hyperplasia so any insight would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am currently against going on a blast and cruise regimen, however, that will likely change in 3-4 years after kids.
[quote]33 Big Blinds wrote:
So in my quest I plan on getting into HGH or GHRH at some point in the very near future. I have tried doing very extensive research but unfortunately have come to the conclusion that there are no solid answers to my questions. So I’ll take a crack here and see if hopefully there are some gh experts here:
I have found conflicting results in regards to normal excretion of GH in late teens to early 20’s. Ideally I would like to use that number and start by doubling it. But since there are so many views on iu’s produced daily, I will just ask:
What are the common dosages someone would use to acheive hyperplasia (splitting of cells for muscle growth)?
Does anyone know of a log by a current IFBB pro in regards to their GH and AAS usage to use as a template?
I am not aware of any, but, what other chems would be used to produce hyperplasia (minus slin as I would prefer to avoid)?
The staple seems to be test and hgh, however, do you know of any direct sides related to hgh and tren’s combined usage?
Fwiw, stats:
27yrs
5’10-5’11
230-235lb @ 12-13%
One 9 1/2 week cycle of 750mg/ wk test-cyp that resulted in 16lb gain
Future cycle: 12 weeks of 250 test-cyp and 10 weeks starting at 500mg/wk tren (possibly working up to 750mg if sides are mild)
Training for IFBB if genetics dont foil my plan. I am aiming for 250lbs+ LBM and I am well aware that will not happen without hyperplasia so any insight would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am currently against going on a blast and cruise regimen, however, that will likely change in 3-4 years after kids.[/quote]
You could easily hit that target with no GH whatsoever.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]33 Big Blinds wrote:
230-235lb @ 12-13%
I am aiming for 250lbs+[u] LBM[/u] [/quote]
You could easily hit that target with no GH whatsoever.[/quote]
LOL…wut?
BushidoBadBoy had a good thread in here about GH use at one time, I believe. Maybe it is in one of the stickeys (Best of the STeroid forum).
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]33 Big Blinds wrote:
230-235lb @ 12-13%
I am aiming for 250lbs+[u] LBM[/u] [/quote]
You could easily hit that target with no GH whatsoever.[/quote]
LOL…wut?
BushidoBadBoy had a good thread in here about GH use at one time, I believe. Maybe it is in one of the stickeys (Best of the STeroid forum).
[/quote]
Ok, I missed the LBM specification. My bad.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]33 Big Blinds wrote:
230-235lb @ 12-13%
I am aiming for 250lbs+[u] LBM[/u] [/quote]
You could easily hit that target with no GH whatsoever.[/quote]
LOL…wut?
BushidoBadBoy had a good thread in here about GH use at one time, I believe. Maybe it is in one of the stickeys (Best of the STeroid forum).
[/quote]
Thanks again VT. Read through them all, only one of the threads had some good info in it, but still unfortunately bro-science as far as the natural levels of production. He did mention the genius idea that I really like of IV injections to imitate natural production as natural production is very sporadic during puberty and this would replicate it perfectly. Most of the info I have is in the IM research.
Should be interesting to look at as I gather more info. Would hopefully be looking to start this some time in the beginning of 2013 if I am confident enough in my research.
Any other ideas besides insulin to promote hyperplasia?
GH induced muscle hyperplasia is a myth. Your unfortuantely stuck with the same amount of muscles for the rest of your life. However, GH will cause cell extracellular matrix enlargement, giving the appearance that your muscles are bigger.
Sorry to burst your bubble. I reccomend you do alot more research before you start using slin/GH.
[quote]Decinator wrote:
GH induced muscle hyperplasia is a myth. Your unfortuantely stuck with the same amount of muscles for the rest of your life. However, GH will cause cell extracellular matrix enlargement, giving the appearance that your muscles are bigger.
Sorry to burst your bubble. I reccomend you do alot more research before you start using slin/GH.
[/quote]
By chance, do you have any scientific evidence to back this statement? I would be interested in reading it.
Scientists by the name Tesch and Larsson, in 1982 did a fine needle biopsy comparison of 3 groups of athletes: competitive bodybuilders, powerlifters, untrained individuals. Interesting enough the muscle fibers were found smaller in the competitive bodybuilders than in powerlifters and the same size as the untrained. The study was confirmed again when redone in 1986. If hyperplasia is not possible, then how can large bodybuilders have the same muscle fiber diameter as untrained individuals?
I thought steroids increased the number of satellite cells, which in turn increases the number of muscle fibres…
PTD posted something about it I think, maybe ask him.
I think steroids strengthened existing muscle fibres making them larger. GH apparently was the only thing that could promote recruitment of satellite cells (located in mature muscle) to differentiate and augment into existing muscle fibres to create new ones. This is just off the top off my head but i think its correct.
SB
I ussually just skip over these GH-based knowledge threads, because the short answer is: No one knows for certain.
Bottom line is that there is a line in the sand between ‘Joe-gym-rat-juice-monkey’, and high level NPC/IFBB pro’s, and GH usage is a serious line in the sand. You can attain high levels of muscularity and leanness with GH that you just cant attain without it. Whether that means its from increase appetite paired with higher levels of fatty acid mobilization, or increase satellite and myocellular uptake, who really cares? The studies on these matters ie: physique enhancement with GH are just NOT going to materialize. People are just going to pick and choose and bend abstracts to support their idea of the mechanisms of GH.
-PTD
[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
I ussually just skip over these GH-based knowledge threads, because the short answer is: No one knows for certain.
Bottom line is that there is a line in the sand between ‘Joe-gym-rat-juice-monkey’, and high level NPC/IFBB pro’s, and GH usage is a serious line in the sand. You can attain high levels of muscularity and leanness with GH that you just cant attain without it. Whether that means its from increase appetite paired with higher levels of fatty acid mobilization, or increase satellite and myocellular uptake, who really cares? The studies on these matters ie: physique enhancement with GH are just NOT going to materialize. People are just going to pick and choose and bend abstracts to support their idea of the mechanisms of GH.
-PTD [/quote]
Thank you PTD. So in your opinion, would my time and copious amounts of money (gh is by no means cheap) be better spent on heavier aas cycles or mild aas with gh as a symbiotic boost? From the two guys I know personally with the same goals, one swears by gh, the other does not. First one has his pro-card, second is 2 weeks out from hopefully attaining his. Scientific research, well as real world experiences, are split down the middle as to whether or not GH is worth it.
[quote]33 Big Blinds wrote:
gh is by no means cheap[/quote]
there’s the rub, as far as I’m concerned. The stuff is so damn expensive, it seems like the best idea is just to dose it as high as you can afford, for as long as you can afford.
Meh, I’ll stick to test. Hardly costs anything.
If you want to make the IFBB, GH is necessary.
All of the pro’s I know run suprisingly low doses of AAS (1-1.5g) as an adjunct to continuous high dose GH protocols.
I’ve discussed usage with 2 card carrying NPC pro’s, along with several Canadian bodybuilding champions and the recurring theme is: Androgen + Anabolic + DHT + GH, with the wild card being MGF/IGF, with some claiming it a necessity, while some saying it does nothing.
Orals are also hit or miss, but they’re pretty basic, DBol for size, Anavar during cuts along with MethylTren or Halotestin pre-contest.
As for GH uage itself, the common theme seems to be: Get CTS, dial back dosage until you don’t get CTS, proceed with that usage as long as you can afford.
Cheers,
-PTD
Dave excuse my noobness but what’s the deal with the DHT? Do you mean actual DHT or derivatives? I don’t really understand the difference between DHT and androgens…
DHT is totally an androgen, but all those cycles generally include a DHT of some sort, ie: Masteron, Anavar or Winstrol etc… With the androgen being Test, Tren or otherwise.
Those 3 categories are not mutually exclusive by any means.
Cheers,
-PTD
thanks for explaining that Dave, every day’s a school day with this stuff.
There are SO MANY different steroids out there, plenty fun to be had.