Are you suggesting that you hope that injecting estrogen wont be as likely to cause estroen type sides in you as estrogen from aromatase does?
Estrogen is Estrogen, as Test is Test. Tits and muscle. Crying and fighting… estrogen and test.
JJ
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
testolius wrote:
He is correct about estrogen being necessary for growth - that is the reason they put it in cow pellets.
Okay, so we agree that e is beneficial for growth. Which would be why people on AI’s sometimes say that it hinders their gains. Not from the actual AI itself, but from a lowered e level.[/quote]
Possibly… however, the benefits of an AI far out weight the possibility of MAYBE lowering your gains… remember there is always SOME estrogen around, we never get rid of it all.
[quote]
But at the same time, we don’t want test to aromatize to e because we don’t want gyno.[/quote]
Ya-ha… all it is, we want to reduce estrogen as it gets hightened to match the test levels, but this causes unwanted side effects, so we stop the conversion method from taking place. We just do it in a manner that does not reduce ALL of the estrogen to nothing, as many problems will arise - not just gains, but loss of libido, joint pain, immune problems…
[quote]
If one were to take AI to prevent gyno he would lower his e. Makes sense to add it back with exogenous e for performance benefits.[/quote]
This is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous things i have read on this forum for a while.
I hope you are just thinking out loud here and are open to getting this ‘reasoning’ bitch-slapped down to the floor?
For one, we never take enough of an AI to reduce estrogens to zero. As i mentioned above, it causes problems.
I use Letro, the more powerful of the two AI’s - due to its ability to ‘get in to’ the adipose sites of aromatase… and work its 98% magic.
I take just a fraction (1/20th) of a tablet dose of 2.5mg (0.125mg) per day as a maximum. know that this works because i have no exacerbation of pre-existing gyno. PLUS i dont get the suppressed libido i get from above 0.25mg (which BTW is still 1/10th of a dose).
By injecting exo E directly into your body, you are causing a potential cluster fuck of hormone interaction.
Depending on what your genes dictate will happen to it, what other drugs you take, and how much, how long etc… you will have problems with its interaction with progesterone, prolactin, HPTA function and obviously all the arimidex/letrozole in the world wont stop the problems when they arise.[quote]
Is there any proof that exogenous e leads to gyno? The mere fact of having elevated levels of e doesn’t absolutely equal bad things. When you take a blood test you have total test and free test. You could have a high total test but it may not mean squat. Could it be the same with e? [/quote]
Possibly, but why risk it? It is not needed on this level, nor wanted particualary. Aromatase estrogen is enough for any bodybuilder, and controlling the amount of that is the key IMO.
I dont know if SHBG binds to estrogen in the same way as test - i would hazard a guess at no, as it plays different roles in the body.
Bottom line, you have enough estrogen in your body - you are trying to justify being lazy so you neednt take any Estradiol out of the synovex implants$.
Just do it properly!
JJ
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
I’m surprised nobody else is using this particular method. I suppose I’ll just have to go for it to see the outcome.
[/quote]
No one else is using it because it’s a bad idea. Don’t do it.
lmao! it is a fucking joke… how did he manage to convince himself it is a good idea to inject estrogen again…?!
ROFLMAO!!
JJ
[quote] Brook wrote:
I hope you are just thinking out loud here and are open to getting this ‘reasoning’ bitch-slapped down to the floor?
[/quote]
Of course I’m just thinking out loud here. I’m trying to make sense of what Roberts is saying.
Again, this whole e thing is while on tren; and only tren.
Bill Roberts never fully explained all this and the thread was left hanging. Again, HE says:
“my interest in the Synovex is actually to get the estrogen, as trenbolone-only drives estrogen levels too low”
So Bill Roberts PURPOSELY WANTS to inject e into himself. This guy isn’t some newb cubscout.
Everything you guys say about e makes sense. I’m not trying to argue it, but Roberts is taking a different view when it comes to tren. I’m just trying to figure out why.
He ended his post with:
“I absolutely enjoy this Finaplix/Synovex stack.” — he’s talking about the stuff with the added e
can i have a link to the article?
thanks 
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
Brook wrote:
I hope you are just thinking out loud here and are open to getting this ‘reasoning’ bitch-slapped down to the floor?
Of course I’m just thinking out loud here. I’m trying to make sense of what Roberts is saying.
Again, this whole e thing is while on tren; and only tren.
Bill Roberts never fully explained all this and the thread was left hanging. Again, HE says:
“my interest in the Synovex is actually to get the estrogen, as trenbolone-only drives estrogen levels too low”
So Bill Roberts PURPOSELY WANTS to inject e into himself. This guy isn’t some newb cubscout.
Everything you guys say about e makes sense. I’m not trying to argue it, but Roberts is taking a different view when it comes to tren. I’m just trying to figure out why.
He ended his post with:
“I absolutely enjoy this Finaplix/Synovex stack.” — he’s talking about the stuff with the added e[/quote]
What i dont understanmd is 2trenbolone only drives estro levels too low" - uh… no it doesnt!
tren doesnt aromatize, but that doesn’t mean Estrogen levels are reduced below natural baseline… IF he is using fina/synovex - then it isnt a tren only cycle, as there is prop being used, and that DOES aromatize… so no need to inject fucking estrogen!
IF he wasnt using any test, just tren, then a little estrogen COULD be beneficial for the IGF1 benefits among all the other estrogen mediated goodies i cannot remember without looking up… BUT it doesnt make sense why he would use synovex to access estrogen - surely there are easier ways?
i need to read this article myself!!
Go to the top of this page. It’s the second link. This stuff is HIS findings; not mine. I’m not making up HIS “facts”, just trying to figure out WTF.
ok… my mistake - i thought these were your ideas. Fair enough then shadow.
let me see, gotta be some sense here as i really respect bill roberts thoughts on mostly everything!
[quote] Brook wrote:
tren doesnt aromatize, but that doesn’t mean Estrogen levels are reduced below natural baseline… IF he is using fina/synovex - then it isnt a tren only cycle, as there is prop being used, and that DOES aromatize… so no need to inject fucking estrogen!
[/quote]
With tren, guys try to control prolactin by using letro, adex, etc. IF tren itself has some sort of effect on e levels and drives it down, then e levels would be lowered even more with letro, adex, etc. Tren + letro, adex = double whammy on e. Could this be why he wants to introduce more?
You’re right that prop is being used and does aromatize. But would it aromatize if one was using enough adex/letro to control it?
Could that be why he purposely wants to pump more in?
OK… lets clear this up.
“…Just as a suspicion, nothing proven, I suspect that there’s some antiestrogenic activity from 120 mg/day trenbolone acetate, not in the sense of an selective estrogen receptor antagonist such as Clomid, nor probably as an anti-aromatase (which would be irrelevant with the estradiol benzoate anyway) but perhaps in the sense that DHT or Proviron are…”
so there is the reason why tren only can cause E levels to fall too low… and could answer some of the questions regarding libido on tren only… possibly.
All this was, was a method of preparing synovex TP without the need for expensive and hard to get equipment.
The method he came up with only needed the usual basic equipment used in the prep of finaplix pellets etc, but isnt as effective at removing the estrogen.
He then goes on to explain why this isnt as bad as (I, for one) people think, by suggesting that estrogen levels fall too low during tren ONLY cycles - but then contradicts himself by using test prop (TP) with the tren… (which is necessary as it is the whole reason the estrogen is there! It is in the syno)
What is interesting is his comments on libido… saying it is very fookin high, which seems to go hand in hand with letro/estro theory and tren theories on libido.
While there are seemingly contradictive directions in his experiment (supposedly tren only but with test with the added estrogen AND estrogen for the benefits OR out of necessity due to process?)
i think that it is interesting that we have for years been so ‘anti-estrogen’, and i am as guilty of this as most, if not more, but there are more and more reasons why we need this vital hormone both in bodybuilding and in sexual goals.
I still wont be injecting any amount of estrogen any time soon. 
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
Brook wrote:
tren doesnt aromatize, but that doesn’t mean Estrogen levels are reduced below natural baseline… IF he is using fina/synovex - then it isnt a tren only cycle, as there is prop being used, and that DOES aromatize… so no need to inject fucking estrogen!
With tren, guys try to control prolactin by using letro, adex, etc. IF tren itself has some sort of effect on e levels and drives it down, then e levels would be lowered even more with letro, adex, etc. Tren + letro, adex = double whammy on e. Could this be why he wants to introduce more?
You’re right that prop is being used and does aromatize. But would it aromatize if one was using enough adex/letro to control it?
Could that be why he purposely wants to pump more in?[/quote]
No - i think you are putting your own ‘things’ into the spaces where there is no information… that is assumption.
Lets stick with what we know, he says tren drives E levels down… so on a tren only cycle our natural levels of estrogen will be lowered below baseline affecting gains and libido.
The thing is, this article was written for the primary intent of providing an easy, at-home method to prepare one’s own synovex. this method leaves an unknown quantity of estrogen in the end product - so he then uses it and gives a couple of reasons and protocols for using this particular preparation of test prop.
The reason is because tren can drive E levels lower, and this particular protocol is for those who are not sensitive to gyno, nor had gyno (for those who have he mentions the choices later).
So the added estrogen from the synovex isnt enough to cause problems, and its effects on libido were great when using 66-75mg of TP/estradiol/day with 120mgTA/day. When he bumped the TP/E combo upto 100mg a day, his libido dropped a little from the high it was at with the previous dosages.
For those who need more estrogen protection, all that is mentioned is a serm is needed for the estradiol (Obv) and an ai for the test (Obv) - and this is only necessary for those who cannot for one reason or another cannot get regular test prop and use synovex;
Maybe for the cheapness or availability or legaility of the stuff… otherwise it is pointless to inject estrogen to just have to deal with it in the form of AI’s and SERMS.
What i got from it was that this is a protocol for use by those who already use synovex or for some reason need to prepare it with this method… not as a protocol recommended for everyday use of tren/prop cycles…
But for those who use synovex/fina and are concerned about the estrogen content left by this method of preparation.
i would like to add that i know fuck all about preparing synovex, so if someone could add their thoughts on what he is suggesting - say testolius maybe, then it may help.
Thanks, and thoughts?
JJ
Okay, good info there Brooke.
So an individual that doesn’t have a high sensitivity to E would actually benefit from this? He makes it sound as if one would have increased growth and less muscle soreness by increasing it.
The side effects of tren are bad enough as it is. Would make sense to try and minimize things if it were possible.
For those who are E sensitive, it just doesn’t make sense financially to go this route. You would be spending money on AI’s just to chase the E around. As you stated, pointless.
I think when he says “tren only” he’s referring to a test/tren cycle without additional compounds (deca, eq, etc.). He probably leaves mention of test out because it’s assumed to be the base.
This is almost as bad as the whole soy debate…
No i dont agree… i think tren only means just that, but that is just an example to show that this is how or when it can lower estrogen levels.
i think as i said, that this is for those who use synovex for one reason or another already, and cannot extract all of the estrogenm - it shows that not only is it ok, but it is actually beneficial for the most part at certain dosages.
Although if you are sensitive to estrogen AI’s and serms may be warranted.
JJ
Fair enough. I’m not a big fan of prop anyways. But it did sound interesting since my next cycle may end up test/tren. His viewpoint goes against the grain so I had to check into it. 
it is interesting. I am really interested in the big 4 anyway - hormonally speaking and that just deepens my intrigue!
JJ
Bump for a great thread.
Just a bump. And props to 5.0 once again for putting a reference together that I use each and every brewing session!
Feel sorry for Ya bro. How about a free 5mL vial. Just a reminder - It’s 200mg/mL. You pay shipping 9 bucks wherever you are located. Test the drugs before you put everything in your body I’ve seen thousands of kids and young males abusing “anavar”. Newbs
Zack
References available upon asking.