Until I’ll have acces to a heavy bag (and I don’t know when will that be), I’m hitting walls and wooden poles.
Been doing this for a month or two and I can feel a difference (i.e. I can hit the pole pretty hard and it doesn’t hurt anymore- one of life’s little pleasures). But I want to know if in time this will destroy my finger tendons or cause arthritis.
Anything on knuckle hardening welcome (I guess one arm knuckle pushups on concrete are also an idea).
Thanks, Vlad
I was going to see to make it progressive, your body will tell if you went overboard or not, but you already did that, so enjoy having knuckles made of steel, we did that a lot on karate, but i got my left knuckles bigger than the right ones, guess that’s what being left handed means.
Don’t.
Please don’t start hitting these hard surfaces without any previous experience with bone hardening. You want to gradually build up and use different techniques. Look up some iron body techniques, the stuff Shaolin do.
Start with a surface that’s softer than your knuckles. The bone structure in your hand is far too complex to start hitting walls and trees right off the bat.
If you are already noticing a difference in how hard you can hit a brick wall or a tree, it’s likely you’re just deadening the nerves. You want to harden the bone, but one or two months isn’t nearly enough time for your bones to have hardened significantly.
I’d start over with lighter techniques if I was you.
I saw videos of monks punching layers of paper for a long period of time. It was badass. Maybe you should look into that.
[quote]Sick Rick wrote:
If you are already noticing a difference in how hard you can hit a brick wall or a tree, it’s likely you’re just deadening the nerves. You want to harden the bone, but one or two months isn’t nearly enough time for your bones to have hardened significantly.
[/quote]
Thanks.
Well, I also notice a difference in how much a punch hurts (punching the open palm of my other hand…). And it hurts more than before…
Don’t hit any object that does not have a fair amount of give to it. I am 56 and a uechi ryu practitioner for 20 years. I can tell you first hand that the training you are now doing will come back to haunt you, I just hope the damage hasn’t been done yet. A makiwara may be a cheaper alternative to a heavy bag and easy to make.
Don’t be concerned about the rope/cord, just use something that will not be too stiff and that has some give to it. Make sure the pole of the makiwara has some give to it.
A lot of guys, especially young ones are too impressed with breaking and that’s ok, just don’t expect to be training for 10 or more years. Any attempts to “condition” bones is IMO over rated.
Think about it, there’s not a lot of conditioning needed for bones, after all it’s living tissue. Condition the forearms and the shins and do those gradually. Your forearms are great natural weapons and your shins can become as hard as a tire iron if you train patiently.
Here are some vids of Kiyode Shinjo one of the best uechi practitioners training and demonstrating sound conditioning and the results:
And Shiyu Gushi:
The guy with the mustache is my teacher, Joe Graziano.
Worth noting is that Mr. Shinjo is age 60 and Mr. Gushi is 70. Joe Graziano is a relative youngster of 55.
My point? Train sensibly and make your karate and conditioning a lifetime activity.
Missed the Gushi vid but there are a lot of vids here that illustrate uechi ryu conditioning as well as practical breaks.
Like Bruce Lee said in Enter the Dragon: “Brick no hit back.”
Makiwara FTW, i’m surely going to buy/build one for me when i get to japan.
@Josann
ASAP, I’ll get me a makiwara 
Thanks.
Ding:
When I started hitting stuff I started very lightly. Maybe 1/10 or less of how hard I could hit.
The problem with what you are doing is bone works on a very different timescale from soft tissues. If you badly bruise a muscle by hitting something hard the bruise will come out in a week or two. With bones it can take much longer.
Another tricky aspect of what you are doing is the body will not always let you know just how much damage you are doing while you are beating on it. Instead it will seem like everything is okay until you take a break from what you are doing, then the body will take the chance to heal and that’s when the pain will start.
Sifu:
You a uechi practitioner? Love that picture of Kanei Uechi. That physique is the epitome of functional and was a product of Okinawan body conditioning. Wonder what he’d look like if he was training today?
[quote]Josann wrote:
Sifu:
You a uechi practitioner? Love that picture of Kanei Uechi. That physique is the epitome of functional and was a product of Okinawan body conditioning. Wonder what he’d look like if he was training today?[/quote]
I’ve studied some Uechi Ryu but I primarily pratice Isshinryu. It has been a number of years since I put that picture up, but I am fairly certain that picture is Kanbun Uechi. I chose it to show that those old school masters weren’t as hopeless as some of the fanboys on this forum like to pretend there were. No I don’t wonder what he would look like today because he looks like he is ready to go in that picture.
Agree. That pic is of Kanbun’s son Kanei. Kanbun had a phobia of being photographed and their are few pictures of him. I agree with you. Due to the overwhelming number of parents who use karate as little league, karate instruction and the art itself has become something of a joke. Traditional karate styles like uechi and isshin ryu are the real deal when taught in the old school way. Worked out once with some isshin guys and liked it. Their sanchin and their body conditioning was impressive. Enjoy your training and stay healthy.
We did a lot of bone hardening where I trained Kung Fu. Forearms, knuckles and shins were the main focus. I can still play guitar and do other fine motor skills. As long as you’re not an idiot about it, it’s actually healthy for your bones to toughen up. If you’re not smart about it however…
[quote]ZeroSleep wrote:
We did a lot of bone hardening where I trained Kung Fu. Forearms, knuckles and shins were the main focus. I can still play guitar and do other fine motor skills. As long as you’re not an idiot about it, it’s actually healthy for your bones to toughen up. If you’re not smart about it however…[/quote]
I read that Mas Oyama couldn’t tolerate puting his hands under the covers when he slept later in life because his knuckles were so damaged from hitting hard unyielding objects. In the video of Mister Shinjo you can see his fingers look pretty mangled.
The Uechi vids were really cool. Though I do olympic style tkd, i have always loved seeing good karate fundamentals. I love watching JKA, WKF, and Kyokushin matches.
To the OP, I would say be careful as you can do alot of damage to yourself. Id say a big factor here is how long you have been training. I mean if your just some guy that decided to hit walls…well alot can go wrong with that.
Id say until you have someone you can train properly with, you will get more of an increase in power from training your techniques over and over again. If you want some conditioning for your punches do knuckle pushups. Very few people have flawless technique, and thats the key to power. I love seeing posts like “how do i increase my punching power…blah blah” with everybody arguing over what weight excercises and so on and so forth.
When in doubt, work technique. Work the intracacies of every single strike. A punch or a kick is not just one movement, but many in the kinetic linkage. You may not be pivoting enough, you may not be timing the pivot of your technique with the rotation of your hips, you may not be sinking into your punches enough… many things can be improved upon. This is how I have made progress when I lacked training materials.
[quote]Josann wrote:
[quote]ZeroSleep wrote:
We did a lot of bone hardening where I trained Kung Fu. Forearms, knuckles and shins were the main focus. I can still play guitar and do other fine motor skills. As long as you’re not an idiot about it, it’s actually healthy for your bones to toughen up. If you’re not smart about it however…[/quote]
I read that Mas Oyama couldn’t tolerate puting his hands under the covers when he slept later in life because his knuckles were so damaged from hitting hard unyielding objects. In the video of Mister Shinjo you can see his fingers look pretty mangled.[/quote]
After extensive research (ie; watching “Fight Quest” and reading on Wikipedia) I have come to the conclusion that old Karateka were insane and not exactly taking it slow.
Squatting 200 lbs 10 times now and again is healthy for my spine (if I use correct technique ofc). Someone dropping 2000 lbs on me on the other hand… 
From previous Kung Fu training I am now able to punch solid concrete walls. It’s all about how much experience you have. You can’t just start blasting on walls immediately because it looks cool.
We started out doing bag work with small bags hanging from the walls. We took it easy, and progessively improved our bone strength. I’m not surprised about my true knuckle power when I reflect back to my Kung Fu days. Even makes me wanna go back.
OP: Even if you can’t get a heavy bag, go to the hardware store and get a nylon sack and about 50 lbs of sand. Find a way to hang it up or attach it to a hard surface you intend to punch (if you have a wooden fence handy, it’s easy to attach to a fence post). Total investment: about $10, and lots of saved medical bills.
Disagree with devil dog and silkyhorse respectfully. Ask WHY am I training this way? To impress, or for defensive purposes. IMHO it makes sense to train so that if you ever need to throw a punch in anger then you won’t break a hand. I’ve seen many karate guys that are pretty in training but never hit anything, doing only air punches. They’d be in deepshit in a fight, especially if they break a hand, which is a real possibility. Air punchers can usually throw a fast punch but are in trouble if it lands on bones. Can you train this way over the long haul? If you aren’t interested in thelong haul then ok. My guess is that neither of youtwo guys are likely to be the kind of guy that people want to mess with. When you are in your fifties or even older defending yourself will be something you’ll still want to be able to do.
Good article on making a proper fist: FightingArts.com - Making A Fist