[quote]Professor X wrote:
What are your specific goals?
Any routine can aid progressive strength. That doesn’t mean you need to waste time on all of them.[/quote]
Yea true, im just trying to put on lean muscle i guess with strength gains along the way. Been training for nearly 2 years and still progressing with that im doing now, but just wanted to change it up after i saw a few videos of dorian and HIT. Should i just keep doing what im doing and then when i plateau should i give this a go? Or just give this a go now and see how i go? [/quote]
Dorian didn’t train HIT like many people like to act like he did. He did several sets…and ramped up. In fact, short of how he did his last set, I am not sure how people can call what he actually did “HIT”. Not to mention many blame his style of training for the many injuries he sustained.
I can understand your interest, however…I just know the actual results I have seen from many die hard “HIT-ites” is not all that impressive. Just keep an open mind. If you want try that, do so. Just don’t become one of those who ignores the actual progress being made as if the routine itself is magic.[/quote]
completely agree…
IMO HIT was a waste of time compared to an other standard BBing split i tried
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
to be clear, are you asking in regard to Ellington Darden’s “the new HIT”[/quote]
No idea who that is, HIT might be useless, so the normal 3 sets of ramping weights to top set to failure to 6-10 reps would be better?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What are your specific goals?
Any routine can aid progressive strength. That doesn’t mean you need to waste time on all of them.[/quote]
Yea true, im just trying to put on lean muscle i guess with strength gains along the way. Been training for nearly 2 years and still progressing with that im doing now, but just wanted to change it up after i saw a few videos of dorian and HIT. Should i just keep doing what im doing and then when i plateau should i give this a go? Or just give this a go now and see how i go? [/quote]
Dorian didn’t train HIT like many people like to act like he did. He did several sets…and ramped up. In fact, short of how he did his last set, I am not sure how people can call what he actually did “HIT”. Not to mention many blame his style of training for the many injuries he sustained.
I can understand your interest, however…I just know the actual results I have seen from many die hard “HIT-ites” is not all that impressive. Just keep an open mind. If you want try that, do so. Just don’t become one of those who ignores the actual progress being made as if the routine itself is magic.[/quote]
Dorian did incorporate many high intensity training (HIT) techniques on most of his one working sets, forced reps, static holds, negatives etc. It is safe to say that he did train using “HIT”.[/quote]
You know, I wrote pretty clearly that ASIDE FROM HIS LAST SET, HE TRAINED MORE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. That is what was meant by [quote]short of how he did his last set, I am not sure how people can call what he actually did “HIT”[/quote]…and it is all of those techniques that people blame for his biceps and triceps tears.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[Dorian didn’t train HIT like many people like to act like he did. He did several sets…and ramped up. In fact, short of how he did his last set, I am not sure how people can call what he actually did “HIT”. Not to mention many blame his style of training for the many injuries he sustained.
[/quote]
Not to derail the thread, even though I think it has run its course.
Many people blame Dorian’s training techniques for his injuries, which is interesting considering I heard an interview where he thought poor form was the reason.
One thing I have witnessed: poor form or poor body awareness combined with advanced training techniques (cheating, forced reps, overloaded eccentrics, partial ROM training) is bad news bears.
Ive been doing the needsize 5x5 program the last few months, and to be honest i havent been stronger or bigger, i really enjoy it. If ur not aware of this is doing 5x5 or a variation of this on the main lift, bench, OH press, squat and deadlift. Then you do 2 assistance exercises for 2x6-10. So it could be flat bench 5x3 then incline DB press and flies for 2x6-10. I was thinking to incorporate HIT and rest pause training to this. So ill do my main lift, then a warm up set of incline dbs then a working set to failure between 6-10. and then again for the second assistance. And i could also bring in rest pause training randomly for tricep work or something, not on the main lifts but. Do you think this would be alright?[/quote]
Bottom line, if you enjoy, have at it. I just know that there is no way I would have someone approach training like that if their goal was BODYBUILDING. I really think some of these concepts have been confused lately because every cross-fitter now thinks that equals the same as the approach someone would take to make the most physical progress possible.
In other words, your chest selections seem fine…I just hope you are giving the same attention to biceps, triceps, back, traps, legs, rear delts, calves, hamstrings, …in other words, everything needs attention if your goal is to make more progress than the average person.
Bench presses and deadlifts are great.
So are biceps curls, side laterals and triceps extensions.
Ive been doing the needsize 5x5 program the last few months, and to be honest i havent been stronger or bigger, i really enjoy it. If ur not aware of this is doing 5x5 or a variation of this on the main lift, bench, OH press, squat and deadlift. Then you do 2 assistance exercises for 2x6-10. So it could be flat bench 5x3 then incline DB press and flies for 2x6-10. I was thinking to incorporate HIT and rest pause training to this. So ill do my main lift, then a warm up set of incline dbs then a working set to failure between 6-10. and then again for the second assistance. And i could also bring in rest pause training randomly for tricep work or something, not on the main lifts but. Do you think this would be alright?[/quote]
Bottom line, if you enjoy, have at it. I just know that there is no way I would have someone approach training like that if their goal was BODYBUILDING. I really think some of these concepts have been confused lately because every cross-fitter now thinks that equals the same as the approach someone would take to make the most physical progress possible.
In other words, your chest selections seem fine…I just hope you are giving the same attention to biceps, triceps, back, traps, legs, rear delts, calves, hamstrings, …in other words, everything needs attention if your goal is to make more progress than the average person.
Banch presses and deadlifts are great.
So are biceps curls, side laterals and triceps extensions.[/quote]
Yes i do all of them and similar amounts of good exercises for each
He sustained most of his serious injuries close to contest time where his overall caloric intake levels would be low therefore would be more vunerable to injury. He said himself that he still went all out with his workouts right up to contest when in hindsight he said maybe he should have cut down on the intensity 3 or 4 weeks out. I don’t blame the techniques he used for the injuries he incurred, getting close to a contest evergy levels are low because of diet, cardio etc and anyone can be more at risk to being injured at this time.
Peace.[/quote]
Gee, the rest of the world blames his techniques. Have you seen Ronnie Coleman train? I mean, honestly, if the “I trained too heavy with poor form” is the excuse, then everyone at the Olympia should have a blown out biceps.
The way he trained is great…if you don’t go that heavy and don’t care if you lose a muscle group as it flies off into the gym parking lot because you tried to do drop sets in the last 2 weeks of contest prep with 4,000lbs on a deadlift.
[quote]Fandango wrote:
Not to derail this thread, but has anyone ever tried DC training? From my understanding that is basically another HIT program.[/quote]
Yes and not quite. It’s obviously very high intensity, but you hit every muscle group two times per week with the “beginner” program and employ rest pause sets.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You know, I wrote pretty clearly that ASIDE FROM HIS LAST SET, HE TRAINED MORE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. That is what was meant by [quote]short of how he did his last set, I am not sure how people can call what he actually did “HIT”[/quote][/quote]
Training “more intensely, less volume, and more rest” is, around :33 in the vid below, how Yates describes the style of HIT he does. Putting it that way, which is basically what Thib described in the article I posted previously, it should be easy enough for most people to understand.
The trouble/confusion comes as a result of the HIT jedis being as cult-ish as Crossfitters in terms of dictating what is or isn’t “true HIT.” Arguing over whether it’s one set per exercise or one set per bodypart? Sets taken to failure or sets must be taken beyond failure. Crap like that that’s more effective at raising Internet forum post counts than it is building muscle and strength.
[quote]Hitkiller wrote:
He said himself that he still went all out with his workouts right up to contest when in hindsight he said maybe he should have cut down on the intensity 3 or 4 weeks out. I don’t blame the techniques he used for the injuries he incurred, getting close to a contest evergy levels are low because of diet, cardio etc and anyone can be more at risk to being injured at this time.[/quote]
Here’s a video where, around 1:05, he chalks his injuries up to not resting enough after sustaining minor injuries (“especially in a contest phase” as he says), letting them develop into more serious injuries.
However, Yates’ “style” of HIT training totally relied on the intensity-boosting techniques that inherently increase the risk of injury, so there wasn’t really a way around it. HIT training as Yates did it, without things like forced reps or negatives, wouldn’t have been as productive in the first place, even though it was significantly more dangerous.
Training “more intensely, less volume, and more rest” is, around :33 in the vid below, how Yates describes the style of HIT he does. Putting it that way, which is basically what Thib described in the article I posted previously, it should be easy enough for most people to understand.
[/quote]
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
DC training has a lot of elements of HIT as well… : )[/quote]
Main difference is the whole over-training thing (Dante doesn’t like to be classed just as a “HITite” anyway), the whole ‘blast phase’ would probably be far too much over-training for Mentzer lol (well, at least in the later years)
shit i thought this was about the Ellington Darden/arthur jones stuff - lol[/quote]
It kind of is. There are many variations of HIT from Mentzer to Yates and also those guys. DC training has a lot of elements of HIT as well… : )[/quote]
true but strictly from dardens book, he was recommending something like 12 second reps (6 up, 6 down) and training full body twice a week (at times…)
[quote]roger1111 wrote:
If you dont agree, what program would you consider best? Been training for nearly 2 years[/quote]
I went into a lot of that in that “professor x thread” stickied to the top of this forum.[/quote]
Yea had a look through it and read some good stuff. Just a quick question. I usually start my workout with a big compound exercise, like incline,flat bench or WG pull ups and CG pull ups, squats and seated shoulder presses. Do you change your first exercise every week? So one week incline bench then the next decline and so on. Or always the same exercise and just try to beat the last one?