My grandfather was sugar ray robinsons sparring partner way back when. My old gramps was an amateur golden gloves himself too.
ok maybe i misspoke. a horse is technically performing athletic feats, training like an athlete, etc. so technically a horse can be an athlete. but its not like the horse wants to be one. i dont think that a horse would just take a leisurely trip to kentucky to enter a race on its own. its being forced to perform buy some homo in a white suit with a stick.
no matter what anyone says i dont think you can compare a human athelte to a horse. irregardless of the fact that both of them are on shit loads of eq!
ZEB–Very well, I stand corrected.
mikeyali
Ali was great, but I would have to put Marciano or Joe Louis ahead of him. Joe Louis had power that was just unbelieveable, he could knock you out with a jab from either hand.
And we all know Sonny’s bias against Jordan, but sorry buddy 
history is hard pressed to find someone that dominated the game like he did. Jumping high and scoring is not all it takes to dominate. Sure, he would get in the face of refs, but that’s cause he was competitive, very competitive. Not a cry baby like Starks was. Yes, i bring him up cause he’s the main reason on why I couldn’t become a knicks fan.
And where is Roberto Clemente? Possibly the greatest outfielder ever. He could throw a strike from left field. His arm was incredible.
“One could argue that Marciano is better than Ali due to his record, although contrary to posting he isn’t the ONLY champion to retire undefeated, merely the only heavyweight to retire undefeated.”
-WHich is an enormous feat in itself. Who else retired undefeated as a champ? Just curious
"I certainly wouldn’t rank Marciano higher than Ali though due to the fact that he only had a few defenses on his title, and his level of competition. "
-Level of competition? THat’s BS. Joe Louis. Archie Moore. Jersey Joe Walcott.
All by KO. Marciano had just as much competition thruout his career, if not more. Just because his career ended before the TV era began doesn’t make him any less of a fighter.
Also: the number of people boxing has been declining for decades. When Marciano was fighting, he was unquestionably facing more AND better competition thruout his career.
As far ALi, I know ALi was charismatic as all hell, which makes him a media darling and he always gets viewed thru rose-colored glasses.
Can’t deny ALi was a great technical fighter.
If it hadn’t been for prison, who knows how much better he could have been.
Lord, how sad is the state of hvwt boxing these days…
16x Hvwt Champion, Ric Flair
Wooooooooooo!!
FYI, Pete Maravich scored all those points when they did not have the 3 point line
Sonny–Joe Louis was GROSSLY past his prime when he lost to Marciano. Walcott and Moore and definitely good fighters, but Moore was a light-heavy for the most part. I’m certainly not claiming that Marciano had NO competition, just that it isn’t commensurate with Ali’s and Foreman’s ect. But you really have to think for a minute. I’m a white guy, but I’ll be the first to admit that Marciano probably got coddled some as a “white hope”
With that said though, man he had balls.
mikeyali
I would also put Joe Louis ahead of Ali. But I’d definitely put Ali ahead of Foreman.
Yes Ali lost to Frazier and Norton but he came back to beat them twice each and he was well past his prime. Pre 1969 Ali would have wiped the floor with Foreman everytime. Ali beat Foreman at his prime while Ali was definitely not.
How about Rickson Gracie? Undefeated in international no-hold-barred competition. That’s some scary shit and never losing is simply mind-boggling.
Im sure no one has even heard of the guy… But hes a beast.
BullGrap
Michael Jordan definately goes on the list, along with Pele, Gretzky, Jerry Rice, Lance Armstrong, Tiger Woods,
and Hulk Hogan.
lol
Mikeyali-
Sonny–Joe Louis was GROSSLY past his prime when he lost to Marciano.
-OK, didn’t know that.
Walcott and Moore and definitely good fighters, but Moore was a light-heavy for the most part.
-So was Marciano. He never weighed in at more than 192.5 at 5’11.
So that argument doesn’t stand.
He wasn’t exactly Primo “Man Mountain” Carnera!
Moore was much more than a “good” fighter
" I’m certainly not claiming that Marciano had NO competition, just that it isn’t commensurate with Ali’s and Foreman’s ect. "
-Marciano wasn’t knocked down until his 43rd fight!
THink about that. Also, remember what I said. Ali, Foreman, Frazier, etc came about during the TV age. In our minds, people that we have seen on TV HAVE to be better than old timers whose fights may or may not be on an old reel somewhere.
"But you really have to think for a minute. I’m a white guy, but I’ll be the first to admit that Marciano probably got coddled some as a “white hope”
-Mikeyali, you couldn’t be more wrong on this one.
THe term “great white hope” has no application to Marciano whatsoever. He was never a hope, he was the real deal. Alos, like I said before, there were a lot more people, esp whites, boxing back then. THere was simply a lot more particpation back then, esp recent immigrants who were poor. Which in those days, meant Italians, Irish, Poles, jews from various countries, etc.
There also wasn’t an NFL, an NBA, an NHL, a NASCAR or for that matter, a television! It was baseball and boxing, that’s it for mainstream sports.
Now Klitscko, THAT’s a hope!
Mikeyali- Bottom line, the man was never defeated. He wasn’t knocked down until his 43rd fight. There’s nothing else I can say!
Bullgrap
Rickson by armbar! But some might say that he didn’t fight the one who could beat him. The ‘Gracie Killer’ himself, Sakuraba!
Even so 400 fights and not a single loss is mighty impressive. Yes you read that correct 400 and 0!!!
Why hasn’t he fought Sakuraba? Is he too old?
And WTF did Pride make Sakuraba fight against heavyweights?
One of the best MMArtists ever and they put him in with Silva and Crocop?
The injuries he suffered almost ended his career.
Assholes. And stupid him for taking those fights.
again, espn doesnt consider soccer a real sport. Pele should have made the list. Come on, a war was stopped (not for very long but still…) to watch him play the beautiful game.
Sonny S
Well the main reason that everyone proffers is that simply the Gracies couldn’t risk their ‘best’ losing to Sakuraba. Also they didn’t want to risk Rickson’s unbeated record, (although he alledgely lost once to a sambo fighter) which is why he retired. He has ducked a couple of other big name fighters most notably Bas Rutten who actually said he’d come out of retirement to fight him!
His 400-0 record is most likely an urban myth because not only is it improbable that he could have fought that many matches in his career but there are no official records of it outside the gracies themselves. It was probably pretty high but who knows the calibre of his opponents.
Pride are much more lax in their care of fighters. UFC fights are stopped alot sooner. They like to have big size differences cause it sells tickets. So even Sakuraba is expendable, though Sak himself thought he had a good chance. Sak is a true warrior and never ducked a fight in his life, in his own words he ‘loves to fight’. And that is evident when he fights Wanderlei Silva three times, gets a beating each time and still wants a piece of Wanderlei!
Thanks Creed, good post.
I noticed Pride had a few size mismatches. UFC doesn’t, prob because as mentioned they take bette care of their fighters. They prob have to since they’re based in the US and have faced being banned in more than 1 state.
But Phil Baroni’s last fight…man that ending was bullshit!
You guys are missing the point. They’re talking about athleticism, meaning most of these guys played more than one sport and/or position in a sport. If you read each person’s accomplishments most of them achieved something in more than one sport. Of course there are exceptions like Jordan (I don’t consider him to ever be a baseball player), but he’s simply the best ever, so he has to be on that list.
Sonny–Again, I’m taking nothing from Marciano. But I still cannot believe that he wasn’t a white hope. Every white heavyweight after Jeffries/Tunney/Dempsey has essentially been a hope. Which isn’t to say that there are no good white fighters. Billy Conn is the first name that comes to mind.
Agreed, Mariciano wasn’t in the “TV era”. Well for the most part. I’ve seen some of his fights on classic sports. But that works both ways. A lot of people give throwback fighters MORE credit than they deserve, merely because all they can go off of is legend, as opposed to really seeing them fight.
As for Marciano being essentially a light-heavy. Yeah, I’ll give you that. But there weren’t an awful lot of 220-240lb solid heavyweights in the ring at that time either that he had to fight.
mikeyali