Hillary Doesn't Stand A Chance In 2008

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]In regards to Hilary, I sincerely hope the Dems can get a better candidate. I really like her – more than McCain or Rudi – but I know I’m in a minority – most Americans really don’t understand the value of her qualities, nor the dramatic positive impact that having a Woman being the most powerful person in the world would have.

Americans can’t get past the “angry b*tch” image, so I don’t have the slightest hope she can win. [/quote]

It is very difficult for a women to wield and exert power and not be labelled in the process. Society, sadly, appears not to be ready to accept women with authority.

42

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

Not true. Your part of the country is more conservative. Come to Jersey. Its a different world.
[/quote]

While I agree Jersey isn’t as conservative as Tennessee,but I don’t think its liberal either.I lived in Middletown in Monmouth county.Real blue collar,working type people.The northern and western counties are pretty white collar republican and rural,which reminded me a lot of Tennesee.I just lived there for 2 years,but didn’t think it was a whole different world from a red state,just more cosmopoliton.

43

[quote]singram wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

Not true. Your part of the country is more conservative. Come to Jersey. Its a different world.

While I agree Jersey isn’t as conservative as Tennessee,but I don’t think its liberal either.I lived in Middletown in Monmouth county.Real blue collar,working type people.The northern and western counties are pretty white collar republican and rural,which reminded me a lot of Tennesee.I just lived there for 2 years,but didn’t think it was a whole different world from a red state,just more cosmopoliton.[/quote]

New Jersey is the most liberal state in the union, aside from maybe Massachusetts. However, we’re the only state that is completely controlled by Democrats, from the governor to the State senate to the assembly, even the two senators are Democrats.

And aside from that, I’ve stated alot that I want South Jersey to secede from New Jersey. They’re just a little…“different” down in the 609…

44

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
singram wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

New Jersey is the most liberal state in the union, aside from maybe Massachusetts. However, we’re the only state that is completely controlled by Democrats, from the governor to the State senate to the assembly, even the two senators are Democratic

[/quote]

I agree,it’s a strong Democratic state and I really enjoyed my time there(Those italian girls are awesome that you’re always talking about)but I don’t see it being liberal like San Fransico or even Austin Texas(the San Fran of the south)I see it being more like a Clinton Democrat,hard on crime,old fashion work ethics,a big union state and moderate to liberal on most social issues.

45

[quote]hspder wrote:
hedo wrote:
What qualities do you see in Hillary that are of value?

Do you REALLY need to ask me that? Don’t you see why I like her? C’mon, you know me better than that.

hedo wrote:
Why do you think having a woman as president would have a “dramatic postive impact”.

If you can’t see it yourself, there’s no amount of explanation I can provide that will convince you…

I’m sorry if I’m not being more forthcoming, but as I said I hope she does not run, so it’s pointless for me to make a case for her.

At least for now. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’m not trying to be convinced, just wondering what you see in her and why you think a woman would would make a dramatic positive impact.

Why don’t you think about it and try again later.

46

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
singram wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

Not true. Your part of the country is more conservative. Come to Jersey. Its a different world.

While I agree Jersey isn’t as conservative as Tennessee,but I don’t think its liberal either.I lived in Middletown in Monmouth county.Real blue collar,working type people.The northern and western counties are pretty white collar republican and rural,which reminded me a lot of Tennesee.I just lived there for 2 years,but didn’t think it was a whole different world from a red state,just more cosmopoliton.

New Jersey is the most liberal state in the union, aside from maybe Massachusetts. However, we’re the only state that is completely controlled by Democrats, from the governor to the State senate to the assembly, even the two senators are Democrats.

And aside from that, I’ve stated alot that I want South Jersey to secede from New Jersey. They’re just a little…“different” down in the 609…[/quote]

Irish

Jersey is a world unto itself. The country is far more conservative as a whole then NJ. I wouldn’t project NJ values imnto the rest of the country. NJ is also very corrupt and extremely screwed up with regards to living expense, property tax, car insurance and credibility. Gov. Mcgreevy did not exactly leave a great legacy. Toreccelli resigned in disgrace and Corzine ,if you haven’t noticed, is already trying to raise the income tax. It’s a disaster.

The Coasts are liberal. Most of the rest of the country is not.

47

[quote]hedo wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
singram wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

steveo5801 wrote:

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

Not true. Your part of the country is more conservative. Come to Jersey. Its a different world.

While I agree Jersey isn’t as conservative as Tennessee,but I don’t think its liberal either.I lived in Middletown in Monmouth county.Real blue collar,working type people.The northern and western counties are pretty white collar republican and rural,which reminded me a lot of Tennesee.I just lived there for 2 years,but didn’t think it was a whole different world from a red state,just more cosmopoliton.

New Jersey is the most liberal state in the union, aside from maybe Massachusetts. However, we’re the only state that is completely controlled by Democrats, from the governor to the State senate to the assembly, even the two senators are Democrats.

And aside from that, I’ve stated alot that I want South Jersey to secede from New Jersey. They’re just a little…“different” down in the 609…

Irish

Jersey is a world unto itself. The country is far more conservative as a whole then NJ. I wouldn’t project NJ values imnto the rest of the country. NJ is also very corrupt and extremely screwed up with regards to living expense, property tax, car insurance and credibility. Gov. Mcgreevy did not exactly leave a great legacy. Toreccelli resigned in disgrace and Corzine ,if you haven’t noticed, is already trying to raise the income tax. It’s a disaster.

The Coasts are liberal. Most of the rest of the country is not.

[/quote]

On that,I agree.It reminds me of Memphis’s leadership.Memphis is in a blue county in the middle of a red state,and it makes NJ government look pretty damn efficent.Thats why I love Vegas and Nevada,the casinos pay all the taxes here.

48

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Is it just me, or do you also think that Hillary Clinton doesn’t stand a chance of being elected President in 2008?

Oh, I think she might get the Democratic nomination all right (and as a Conservative Republican I am rooting for her to get it) but getting elected President – no way!

Reasons she cannot get elected:

(1) She is way too far far far left on everything (despite her attempts to move toward the center, she reveals her leftist stripes over and over again).

(2) She is married to Bill Clinton.

(3) We just don’t elect Senators. John Kennedy was the last - I cannot even name another ever.

(4) She is way to angry – Americans don’t want their leaders to be angry and shrill. She yells about everything in that annoying (chalk on a blackboard) voice of hers.

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

(6) Can we really trust Hillary to keep us safe from attacks? Could you imagine her standing up to any of the world’s maniacs?

As I said, I am hoping she gets nominated, so the Republican can trounce her, but in my opinion SHE DOESN’T HAVE A PRAYER.[/quote]

Does it really matter?

Quit reading right-wing mass media propaganda without going to independent non-corporate news sources for an alternative viewpoint.

49

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Is it just me, or do you also think that Hillary Clinton doesn’t stand a chance of being elected President in 2008?

Oh, I think she might get the Democratic nomination all right (and as a Conservative Republican I am rooting for her to get it) but getting elected President – no way!

Reasons she cannot get elected:

(1) She is way too far far far left on everything (despite her attempts to move toward the center, she reveals her leftist stripes over and over again).

(2) She is married to Bill Clinton.

(3) We just don’t elect Senators. John Kennedy was the last - I cannot even name another ever.

(4) She is way to angry – Americans don’t want their leaders to be angry and shrill. She yells about everything in that annoying (chalk on a blackboard) voice of hers.

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

(6) Can we really trust Hillary to keep us safe from attacks? Could you imagine her standing up to any of the world’s maniacs?

As I said, I am hoping she gets nominated, so the Republican can trounce her, but in my opinion SHE DOESN’T HAVE A PRAYER.

Does it really matter?

Quit reading right-wing mass media propaganda without going to independent non-corporate news sources for an alternative viewpoint.[/quote]

These are MY ideas bro…you know ideas – the thing that you libs never seem to have.

Yes it does matter! Are you saying that it doesn’t matter who is leading our nation? What are you brain dead?

I am also laughing at you for your calling conservatives who report the news “propaganda” as if the liberal news media (which you libs had an absolute lock before the advent of cable TV and conservative talk) has no agenda…come on…do you think we are all as stupid as you libs?

50

[quote]hspder wrote:
nor the dramatic positive impact that having a Woman being the most powerful person in the world would have.

[/quote]

Does this include Condi Rice?

51

[quote]hedo wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
singram wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

(5) The country as a whole is far more conservative.

Not true. Your part of the country is more conservative. Come to Jersey. Its a different world.

While I agree Jersey isn’t as conservative as Tennessee,but I don’t think its liberal either.I lived in Middletown in Monmouth county.Real blue collar,working type people.The northern and western counties are pretty white collar republican and rural,which reminded me a lot of Tennesee.I just lived there for 2 years,but didn’t think it was a whole different world from a red state,just more cosmopoliton.

New Jersey is the most liberal state in the union, aside from maybe Massachusetts. However, we’re the only state that is completely controlled by Democrats, from the governor to the State senate to the assembly, even the two senators are Democrats.

And aside from that, I’ve stated alot that I want South Jersey to secede from New Jersey. They’re just a little…“different” down in the 609…

Irish

Jersey is a world unto itself. The country is far more conservative as a whole then NJ. I wouldn’t project NJ values imnto the rest of the country. NJ is also very corrupt and extremely screwed up with regards to living expense, property tax, car insurance and credibility. Gov. Mcgreevy did not exactly leave a great legacy. Toreccelli resigned in disgrace and Corzine ,if you haven’t noticed, is already trying to raise the income tax. It’s a disaster.

The Coasts are liberal. Most of the rest of the country is not.

[/quote]

I think the corruption is more indicative of the politicans in the state, not the party. As I recall, there were a bunch of Republicans caught in that big sting operation last year also…I thought it was about 50/50. I may be wrong though, I forget the details.

Its sad that the pay to play is so damn strong. But hey, you know the history. Lots of mafia, lots of cities…lots of corruption.

As I recall though, Whitman left us in quite a hole, and that’s why we’re in debt.

I do agree that the NJ democrats need a lot of work as far as ethics. But I would not live anywhere else. There’s been alot of good done too by the liberals here.

52

[quote]doogie wrote:
hspder wrote:
nor the dramatic positive impact that having a Woman being the most powerful person in the world would have.

Does this include Condi Rice?
[/quote]

Very good question.

As the President – yes, of course.

In her current position, no.

I’ve found out very quickly that people outside the US (where her sphere of influence is, since she doesn’t really spend any time over here any more) don’t perceive her as having any power at all right now. They perceive her as being a puppet in the hands of the Administration… A simple messenger.

The fact that she has maintained a very low key attitude has worsened that perception.

I’m not saying that is true – just that’s how she is perceived outside the US.

53

[quote]hedo wrote:
Why don’t you think about it and try again later.[/quote]

IF she runs, I’ll write up a nice post on my thoughts on that.

In the meantime, think about it too – preferably forgetting about Hilary in particular and thinking about a Female US President in abstract.

What would that say about the US?
What would that tell Women all over the World?
What would that tell Asian and Middle Eastern reactionary cultures?
What would that tell liberal European cultures?
What reactions would that incite in each of the above cultures?

Think about it.

54

[quote]vroom wrote:
It is very difficult for a women to wield and exert power and not be labelled in the process. Society, sadly, appears not to be ready to accept women with authority.[/quote]

Very true. That, coming from men, does not surprise me – what will never cease to amaze me is that many women seem to have as big of a problem with women with authority as men do.

55

[quote]hspder wrote:
doogie wrote:
hspder wrote:
nor the dramatic positive impact that having a Woman being the most powerful person in the world would have.

Does this include Condi Rice?

Very good question.

As the President – yes, of course.

In her current position, no.

I’ve found out very quickly that people outside the US (where her sphere of influence is, since she doesn’t really spend any time over here any more) don’t perceive her as having any power at all right now. They perceive her as being a puppet in the hands of the Administration… A simple messenger.

The fact that she has maintained a very low key attitude has worsened that perception.

I’m not saying that is true – just that’s how she is perceived outside the US.
[/quote]

If I send you a “Condi '08” bumper sticker, will you put it on your car?

56

[quote]hspder wrote:
thoughts on that.

In the meantime, think about it too – preferably forgetting about Hilary in particular and thinking about a Female US President in abstract.

What would that say about the US?
What would that tell Women all over the World?
What would that tell Asian and Middle Eastern reactionary cultures?
What would that tell liberal European cultures?
What reactions would that incite in each of the above cultures?

Think about it.
[/quote]

Would you vote for a Golda Mier or Thatcher type female just because of what it would say about the U.S. and the message it would send to women all over the world?

57

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
The point that I wish to make is that you are now being given a chance to tell us what YOU libs would do if you had your person in there. What are your ideas about protecting the country? All you seem to be able to do is to Bash bush. Well, I’ll tell you a secret: this has been tried before and has failed!

You will only get someone elected if you calm down, quiet down, and propose serious solutions to the serious problems. You know, something besides “Bush stinks…”

Well, where are Hillary’s ideas to solve problems?[/quote]

We have ideas. We try to explain them. Hard. But unfortunately our solutions take more than 5 seconds to explain – unlike “lower taxes” or “smaller government” or “reduce entitlement spending”. We seem to lack the rhetoric skills of Republicans that allow them to reduce solutions to a sound bite. Even when they never really mean it, like Joe Scarborough said the other day (remember the last time any of the above sound bites actually happened under a Republican government?).

We learnt quite quickly that if it takes longer than 5 seconds to explain: better save your breath.

A certain Bill Clinton was able to make explanations unnecessary out of his sheer charm. He rarely had to explain anything. He just whipped up his public speaking skills and made people vote for him without ever having to tell them what his solutions were. It worked pretty well.

He learnt that with the best: FDR and JFK, who were even better at it.

Unfortunately, we haven’t found another Bill Clinton… yet…

58

[quote]doogie wrote:
Would you vote for a Golda Mier or Thatcher type female just because of what it would say about the U.S. and the message it would send to women all over the world?
[/quote]

No. But I never said I would vote for Hillary only because she’s a woman. My point is that there are some advantages to having a woman as US President – but not enough to override the disadvantages of the one of the characters you mention. I think you know which one I mean.

By the way, what do you have against Golda Mier?

59

[quote]doogie wrote:
If I send you a “Condi '08” bumper sticker, will you put it on your car?[/quote]

She was my Provost for a while. I know her fairly well – more than well enough to never vote for her for anything. :slight_smile:

60

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
MODOK wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
“as a Conservative Republican”, don’t you have other things to worry about. I mean, your spoiled little brat is making a mess.

Did you enlist? Did your son? Did any of your relatives or friends?

I’m sure you’re from a VERY patriotic family.

Did Hillary enlist? Did her husband? Did they dodge the draft?

Thanks for making point. No, they didn’t enlist.

But they didn’t beat the wardrum either. Bush does. The twins should enlist.

Don’t be shy. Don’t support your troops a distance. Get up close and personal. Get killed by your war.

It’s Darwin.

Wow…

Lincoln, Rosevelt and Truman never served in the Armed Forces of America. Each sent men into battle. And Truman was the only President to use nuclear weapons.

The democratic talking points really don’t make any sense when you think about them.

You are smarter than that man…
[/quote]

Good post! The Dems bitch about the Republican war mongers, but forget who was president and who ran Congress from 1964-1968.