High Estrogen

CT, or anyone else for that matter…

For roughly the past year or so I have had high estrogen levels (three times the normal amount according to my doc). I’ve never used a pro hormone or AAS. I’m 22, never been fat, actually been pretty lean my whole life, and have no idea where this is coming from.

I use basic supplements (protein, amino acids, creatine, Surge recovery). I did use a IGF-1 spray (deer antler extract) from NOW once and that is the only supplement I can think of that would have a direct effect on hormones.

So Ive ran a couple of bottles of liquid letrozole (because I developed some small gyno lumps) and still no help, excess chest fat and gyno lumps remain. I have no idea what to do or think anymore.

Thanks for any help…

I’m no hormone expert and don’t know much about drugs but in dealing with excess estrogen I’d recommend plenty of broccoli and milled flax seeds everyday to help keep estrogen levels down. I believe it is the lignan levels that help with that. And also supplements like rev Z. Can’t hurt to give some natural remedies a shot.

I’ve tried a few bottles of rez-v and a few of poliquins estrogen products.

Are your insulin markers high? Supra-iliac?

You may be feminizing yourself through chronically elevated insulin levels if you aren’t watching your carb intake and are not lean/carb tolerant. Once you get insulin under control, your estrogen would take care of itself.

I am actually not very carb tolerant at all. My supra iliac skin fold would likely be way out of proportion to my others. But like I said I am still pretty lean (can see me abs). I would say I eat a moderate carb diet with carbs coming only in two meals (morning, postworkout) plus carbs in my para-workout nutrition. I can’t imagine my insulin is that terribly high as to elevate my estrogen levels that much. But it is something to think about. Thanks for your reply.

Interesting.

How’s your Zinc Intake? Also some xenoestrogens might be coming into play. Get rid of glade plug in’s and stuff in the house.

Do you drink out of plastic bottles? What about hot liquid out of plastic?

Try Stainless steel bottles, or glass.

Secondly cruciferous vegetables should be a priority. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, collared greens, cabbage, cucumbers, bok choy, brocoflower, arugula etc.

Consume as much of these as you can. I do 30oz/day minimum. (about 2 pounds)

I’ve also read some stuff on estrogens and the liver metabolizing them. So a milk thistle supplement with some dandelion might be the ticket.

Make sure fiber is high enough, this can be as much as 50g/day for some. I’m personally at 50g/day when low carb… That’s what it takes for me.

Give er shit man :wink:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
I am actually not very carb tolerant at all. My supra iliac skin fold would likely be way out of proportion to my others. But like I said I am still pretty lean (can see me abs). I would say I eat a moderate carb diet with carbs coming only in two meals (morning, postworkout) plus carbs in my para-workout nutrition. I can’t imagine my insulin is that terribly high as to elevate my estrogen levels that much. But it is something to think about. Thanks for your reply.[/quote]

If you suspect your supra iliac is one of your highest sites, then you are taking in too many carbs. If you aren’t sub 10% bf, a Paleo type diet is probably ideal. Think meat, veggies, EFAs. Fenuplex and Insulinomics will help increase your insulin sensitivity as well.

However, I would recommend getting a Bio Sig analysis done so that you know what is going on and what may be causing what. A good practitioner will be able to see correlations and give you guidance.

Best of luck.

I’ll be keeping my eye on this thread…I don’t have any blood work proof. But I’ve always suspected my estrogen levels were higher than they should be as I tend to store much more fat in my chest area than most people do.

I too already know I’m not very carb tolerant and I only take in about 130g a day on average (some oatmeal with breakfast and the rest being from pre and peri workout Surge Recovery) then little trace amounts from natty PB, cottage cheese, veggies, etc

Edit : Hmmm I used to drink water out of plastic bottles all day every day and just recently switched to glass this week, we’ll see if that makes any difference. lol

[quote]Darkane wrote:
Interesting.

How’s your Zinc Intake? Also some xenoestrogens might be coming into play. Get rid of glade plug in’s and stuff in the house.

Do you drink out of plastic bottles? What about hot liquid out of plastic?

Try Stainless steel bottles, or glass.

Secondly cruciferous vegetables should be a priority. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, collared greens, cabbage, cucumbers, bok choy, brocoflower, arugula etc.

Consume as much of these as you can. I do 30oz/day minimum. (about 2 pounds)

I’ve also read some stuff on estrogens and the liver metabolizing them. So a milk thistle supplement with some dandelion might be the ticket.

Make sure fiber is high enough, this can be as much as 50g/day for some. I’m personally at 50g/day when low carb… That’s what it takes for me.

Give er shit man :wink: [/quote]

Thanks for your reply.

A few things:
I was taking ZMA on a regular basis and stopped for some reason. I will get back on that stuff again. I know it helps keep testosterone in check, which with me, my testosterone was in the normal range. So not sure if it will help but I will give it a try.

Im not big on scents and stuff like the glade plug ins you mentioned. I’ve thought about whether xenoestrogens have been sneaking in somewhere and cannot come with anything really. I don’t routinely drink water out of plastic water bottles.

I eat spinach every day pretty much but not a whole lot else for green veggies. Could you explain what the significance of eating fibrous green vegetables and getting enough fiber has to do with keeping estrogen levels in check?

Thanks again for your reply.

[quote]KateK wrote:
schanz_05 wrote:
I am actually not very carb tolerant at all. My supra iliac skin fold would likely be way out of proportion to my others. But like I said I am still pretty lean (can see me abs). I would say I eat a moderate carb diet with carbs coming only in two meals (morning, postworkout) plus carbs in my para-workout nutrition. I can’t imagine my insulin is that terribly high as to elevate my estrogen levels that much. But it is something to think about. Thanks for your reply.

If you suspect your supra iliac is one of your highest sites, then you are taking in too many carbs. If you aren’t sub 10% bf, a Paleo type diet is probably ideal. Think meat, veggies, EFAs. Fenuplex and Insulinomics will help increase your insulin sensitivity as well.

However, I would recommend getting a Bio Sig analysis done so that you know what is going on and what may be causing what. A good practitioner will be able to see correlations and give you guidance.

Best of luck.

[/quote]

I have tried Poliquin’s fenuplex supplement but I suppose I never received correct instructions on best usage. I know my insulin sensitivity could use improvement, but right now I can deal with the extra fat in the love handles, it is not a huge problem because like I said I can still see my abs and am still fairly lean.

So could you explain why this insulin resistance would perhaps raise the estrogen levels in my body? I suppose if it took a paleo type diet to reduce my estrogen levels then I would do it. But I do think it would hurt my gains being on that low of carb intake. So a little added explanation on that would help.

Thanks for your reply.

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
KateK wrote:
schanz_05 wrote:
I am actually not very carb tolerant at all. My supra iliac skin fold would likely be way out of proportion to my others. But like I said I am still pretty lean (can see me abs). I would say I eat a moderate carb diet with carbs coming only in two meals (morning, postworkout) plus carbs in my para-workout nutrition. I can’t imagine my insulin is that terribly high as to elevate my estrogen levels that much. But it is something to think about. Thanks for your reply.

If you suspect your supra iliac is one of your highest sites, then you are taking in too many carbs. If you aren’t sub 10% bf, a Paleo type diet is probably ideal. Think meat, veggies, EFAs. Fenuplex and Insulinomics will help increase your insulin sensitivity as well.

However, I would recommend getting a Bio Sig analysis done so that you know what is going on and what may be causing what. A good practitioner will be able to see correlations and give you guidance.

Best of luck.

I have tried Poliquin’s fenuplex supplement but I suppose I never received correct instructions on best usage. I know my insulin sensitivity could use improvement, but right now I can deal with the extra fat in the love handles, it is not a huge problem because like I said I can still see my abs and am still fairly lean.

So could you explain why this insulin resistance would perhaps raise the estrogen levels in my body? I suppose if it took a paleo type diet to reduce my estrogen levels then I would do it. But I do think it would hurt my gains being on that low of carb intake. So a little added explanation on that would help.

Thanks for your reply.[/quote]

Insulin is an extremely powerful hormone… it affects nearly every other hormone in the body. If a fat person with insulin resistance comes to get a BioSig done, putting him or her on an insulin protocol is all that is needed initially because it will lead to a significant decrease in ALL Of the sites.

Just do a quick google search on estrogen and insulin and you will see that “mainstream” medicine even recognizes the relationship… especially with women, insulin resistance, and breast cancer.

As far as a Paleo Diet “affecting your gains”… you have to determine if fat loss or muscle gain is a priority right now. You may be able to do both simultaneously if you eat right, train smart, and supplement as needed.

Taken From: http://www.newhope.com/nutritionsciencenews/nsn_backs/Nov_01/estrogen.cfm

This breakdown occurs primarily in the liver, and the excreted metabolites flow out in the bile or urine. Estradiol and estrone undergo this breakdown through a process called hydroxylation, an enzymatic activity in which the parent estrogen is transformed by the addition of a hydroxyl (OH) group at specific positions on estrogen’s molecular ring.

Estrogen molecules are composed of carbon ring structures that are named numerically. Estradiol has 17 carbon atoms and can be hydroxylated at particular points on that ring. Considerable research has shown that major metabolites of estradiol and estrone are those hydroxylated at either the C-2 or the C-16 positions. Hydroxylated metabolites at the C-4 position also are present, but in lesser amounts. We might think of this process as parent estrogens (estradiol and estrone) begetting daughter estrogens (C-2, C-4, and C-16 hydroxyestrones and hydroxyestradiols). The problem is, some of these are the proverbial good daughters and some are bad daughters. I’ll describe how the “bad” daughters can cause significant trouble.

What makes an estrogen good or bad? That has to do with the biological activity, or potency, of that estrogen. Estrogens are important in a host of cellular activities that affect growth and differentiation in various target cells. This is normal and beneficial, but too much estrogenic stimulation can have a negative effect. Therefore, properly metabolizing and excreting estrogens is crucial. This is how the daughter compounds differ substantially. If these estrogens are metabolized into the 2-hydroxylated estrone and estradiol, they lose much of their cell proliferative and estrogenic activity and are termed “good” estrogen metabolites. Studies show that when 2-hydroxylation increases, the body resists cancer, and that when 2-hydroxylation decreases, cancer risk increases.

I mean that’s from menopausal women but it applies to us as well (E2).

Fiber will help with Insulin, which was said earlier is extremely powerful.

Here is some more to help: Google is our friend :wink: EDIT: hard to read here (gaianaturopathic.com)

Optimizing Estrogen Metabolism

  1. Minimize exogenous estrogens â?? meats, dairy, use of plastics, etcâ?¦ (Use organic where possible).
  2. Regulate bowel activity â?? maintain optimal elimination via making time to eliminate regularly, ensuring adequate
    exercise and increasing fiber content in diet. (see below).
  3. Liver support:
    ï?· Increase foods to support healthy liver i.e. lemon water; beets; carrots etcâ?¦
  4. Maintain good weight control:
    ï?§ Increased fatty tissue increases estrogen synthesis
    ï?§ Maintaining good weight control has an effect on balancing androgenic hormones
    ï?§ Eat foods that have low glycemic index
  5. Decrease pesticide/herbicide exposure â?? organochlorides bind to estrogen receptors and have estrogen-like effect
    (organic lawn and garden care and organic foods recommended).
  6. Do not microwave or store food in plastics. Plastics have been shown to mimic estrogen in the body. (Yes, those
    Nalgene bottles too! â?? Bisphenol A, Pthalates
  7. Eat only unprocessed yogurts and chesses (preferably organic choices). No commercial milk and milk products â??
    milk is very high in estrogen b/c dairy cattle are continuously pregnant.
  8. Water â?? drink only good quality water. Best source is reverse osmosis and to support with extra minerals. But drink
    at least filtered or spring water. Drink at least 8 â?? 10 glasses each day.
  9. Increase complex carbohydrates in the form of whole grains (i.e. buckwheat, kasha, brown rice, millet, quinoa,
    etc.), starchy vegetables (no fluffy white potatoes), legumes (they decrease glycemic index). Increased glucose
    means increased insulin, which in turn decreases sHBG (sHBG normally binds to free estradiol) resulting in an
    increase of free estrogen in the blood.
  10. Eliminate simple carbohydrates. This means no breads, cakes, cookies, muffins, sugar etc. Anything made with
    processed flours must be eliminated.
  11. Decrease saturated fats and Increase omega-3-fatty acids.:
    Fish oil (from a good source â?? Nutrasea, Nordic Naturals). Omega-3 FAs enhance 2-Hydroxyestrone and shunt
    pathway away from 16-�±-Hydroxyestrone (more carcinogenic than original estrogen that is being broken down).
  12. Increase fiber in diet. Fiber binds unconjugated estrogens in gut. Fiber also increases bowel function decreasing
    the likelihood of reabsorption of estrogen products from gut due to stagnation of fecal matter.
  13. Probiotics:
    a. Decrease insulin
    b. Decreases abnormal bacteria and balances gut microflora
    c. Decreases transit time of waste matter
    d. Increases bowel function
  14. Flaxseed meal â?? highest lignan content (lignans decrease aromatase activity and increases sHBG (converts
    androstenodione to estrone). Eat 3 TBSP ground flax per day (buy a coffee grinder and grind it fresh daily). Make
    it part of your morning ritual.
  15. Think twice about drugs/medications â?? Cimetidine, marijuana, birth control pills, synthetic estrogen (Premarin),

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
Darkane wrote:
Interesting.

How’s your Zinc Intake? Also some xenoestrogens might be coming into play. Get rid of glade plug in’s and stuff in the house.

Do you drink out of plastic bottles? What about hot liquid out of plastic?

Try Stainless steel bottles, or glass.

Secondly cruciferous vegetables should be a priority. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, collared greens, cabbage, cucumbers, bok choy, brocoflower, arugula etc.

Consume as much of these as you can. I do 30oz/day minimum. (about 2 pounds)

I’ve also read some stuff on estrogens and the liver metabolizing them. So a milk thistle supplement with some dandelion might be the ticket.

Make sure fiber is high enough, this can be as much as 50g/day for some. I’m personally at 50g/day when low carb… That’s what it takes for me.

Give er shit man :wink:

Thanks for your reply.

A few things:
I was taking ZMA on a regular basis and stopped for some reason. I will get back on that stuff again. I know it helps keep testosterone in check, which with me, my testosterone was in the normal range. So not sure if it will help but I will give it a try.

Im not big on scents and stuff like the glade plug ins you mentioned. I’ve thought about whether xenoestrogens have been sneaking in somewhere and cannot come with anything really. I don’t routinely drink water out of plastic water bottles.

I eat spinach every day pretty much but not a whole lot else for green veggies. Could you explain what the significance of eating fibrous green vegetables and getting enough fiber has to do with keeping estrogen levels in check?

Thanks again for your reply.
[/quote]

This is something I’ve been reading a bit about lately, regarding exogenous estrogens getting into our systems from food sources and such. Lots of talk about how this may be affecting both men and women. Pretty disconcerting stuff.

Curious though: there are a lot of suggestions here to the OP about how to get his estrogen levels down, but he also noted that he has “chest fat and gyno lumps.” So would getting the estrogen down enable him to get rid of that too, or does that require surgery?

[quote]Dark_Knight wrote:
This is something I’ve been reading a bit about lately, regarding exogenous estrogens getting into our systems from food sources and such. Lots of talk about how this may be affecting both men and women. Pretty disconcerting stuff.

Curious though: there are a lot of suggestions here to the OP about how to get his estrogen levels down, but he also noted that he has “chest fat and gyno lumps.” So would getting the estrogen down enable him to get rid of that too, or does that require surgery?

[/quote]

It will help with the fat for sure, and as far as I know prolonged gyno lumps are only surgically removable.

The gyno hasn’t been that prolonged I would say (9 months maybe). I know I probably won’t be able to completely get rid of them without surgery, but if I can get a reduction by getting my estrogen under control I would be happy.

Zinc , revastrol, etc

After the insulin protocol

You are Aromataseing.

You can be lean and aromataseing (its most commonly seen in some bodybuilders who uses steroids, but I have had clients with your same problem, and some of them were kids)

Go to Charles Poliquin and find a Biosignature Practitioner.

This is a good read

http://broefitness.com/default.aspx?pageid=11

By the way, KateK your ripped nice work.

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
This is a good read

http://broefitness.com/default.aspx?pageid=11

By the way, KateK your ripped nice work.[/quote]

Good read there, thanks for the link man.

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
This is a good read

http://broefitness.com/default.aspx?pageid=11

By the way, KateK your ripped nice work.[/quote]

Thanks- appreciate the nice words.

Good article indeed.

I ordered two bottles each of poliquin’s fenuplex and insulinomics with some direction on how to use them properly (thanks KateK). I am also going to try and get some high lignan flax oil and add that into my diet while lowering my carb intake some more. Hopefully I will get some results from this, after I finish both bottles of fenuplex and insulinomics and finish tapering off my last bit of letrozole I will get another blood test and see what the results are.

(I uploaded some pics into my profile, can’t really see the gyno from that angle, but it at least gives a bit of perspective of where I store my body fat.)