[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Its going on 5 weeks now and we have all got incredible gains off the gh I would say 5-7 pounds of lean muscle . 5 ius a day at present[/quote]
There is no way you can know that bro, lets be honest. More than likely waht you have is 5-7 pounds of fluid retention. That does not mean that the GH is not working quite the contrary it is a sign that it is effective.
However the true results will not be seen for many months as your training and other “supplementation” begins to cause the newly formed muscle cells to grow. Initially any new cells formed are not going to contribute much to your weight.
Stay on it for 6 months than look at where you are a year later with continued training, that will tell you how effective it was. GH is not an immediate return sort of drug, its about an investment into new tissues that you can then develope through continued training and “supplementation”.
[quote]morepain wrote:
Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Its going on 5 weeks now and we have all got incredible gains off the gh I would say 5-7 pounds of lean muscle . 5 ius a day at present
There is no way you can know that bro, lets be honest. More than likely waht you have is 5-7 pounds of fluid retention. That does not mean that the GH is not working quite the contrary it is a sign that it is effective.
However the true results will not be seen for many months as your training and other “supplementation” begins to cause the newly formed muscle cells to grow. Initially any new cells formed are not going to contribute much to your weight.
Stay on it for 6 months than look at where you are a year later with continued training, that will tell you how effective it was. GH is not an immediate return sort of drug, its about an investment into new tissues that you can then develope through continued training and “supplementation”.
[/quote]
I did not realise that HGH caused water retention this is news to me
You sound like you’ve used HGH for a while now. Any regrets or drawbacks besides the price?[/quote]
i can’t say that i regret any of it since my goal was always just to be huge for wahtever reason. but you have to understand that its not like you take a bunch of gh and your muscles grow alot bigger and everything else stays the same. PM me for more info
not in the sense that hevy doses of test or similar will do, but most guys find that they are 5-10 pounds heavier while using GH, i am no scientist but personal experience coupled with some educated speculation (such as swollen wrists and ankles) tells me that there is a signifigant amount of fluid retention.
Only an idiot doesn’t know the difference between muscle gains and water retention… Shoulders more rounded, all muscles more rounded, strength up, joint pain non-existent, all eight abs out, body fat looks to be down 2%. Weight up seven pounds.
Apparently I have to spell this out for some of you, and it must be the GH since it is the only thing I have changed in the past year. Sorry if you don’t know how to do it right. Don’t be a hater, for 50$ an hour I will teach you…
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Only an idiot doesn’t know the difference between muscle gains and water retention… Shoulders more rounded, all muscles more rounded, strength up, joint pain non-existent, all eight abs out, body fat looks to be down 2%. Weight up seven pounds.
Apparently I have to spell this out for some of you, and it must be the GH since it is the only thing I have changed in the past year. Sorry if you don’t know how to do it right. Don’t be a hater, for 50$ an hour I will teach you…[/quote]
No thanks, but its obvious you have it all figured out, i mean hell i have never met anyone that can internally examine their body and be absolutley sure that it is indeed 7 pounds of lean tissue that they have gained, you must be some kind of genius.
I don’t deserve to be involved in such a high level discussion with the likes of you. From here on out i will just bow to your obvious intelligence.
From: “Grow Young with HGH” by Dr. Ronald Klatz. 1997
Page 12: Water retention and carpal tunnel syndrome were reported for athletes taking “massive” doses of HGH, often 4 times what was needed to obtain “desired benefits”. A recent three year study in Denmark using lower doses found no side effects. In 1995 researchers in Sweden concluded “There is no evidence suggesting that this [growth hormone] replacement therapy causes any unfavorable long term side effects.”
(early uses of HGH used doses that are now regarded as way to high, the side effects linger as facts that do not apply to today’s dosing)
Page 37: “… have not had any major side effects, including carpal tunnel syndrome, in the entire series of 800 patients. The only side effects that have occurred are minor joint aches and pains and fluid retention. These disappear in the first month or two. They believe that persistent side effects, such as carpal tunnel syndrome, that occurred in other studies is due to overly high doses given in a nonphysiological manner.” … “No reported cases of cancer among all the patients treated (800)” “PSA levels did not increase in the men”
Page 119-120 talks about water retention and talks about what processes are responsible and talks about adjusting the dose if this happens. “individualized dosage”
Also talks about increased hair growth and skin improvements… I have seen this myself with test cyp at 57 years of age. I also find that HCG causes an increase in appetite and my rings are tighter. I don’t think that HGH can claim exclusive rights to these things. HGH and testosterone are considered synergistic. So increases to either one should also trigger some of these things. Test is reported to increase HGH. In my case, my IGF-1 decreased with test cyp… perhaps I was having a bad day or did not sleep well the night before the blood tests.
There is a discussion that our % water weight decreases with age… with the implication increasing water % might be part of an anti-aging process.
Chapter 20. page 286 talks more about side effects and reducing doses or starting with smaller doses and working up slowly. Start at 0.5iu and work up to 1.10iu which one group considered optimal.
… growth hormone hangs around in the bloodstream for very few minutes. GH stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1 which increases during the day…
[quote]muscle_mike wrote:
funny then why doesnt igf-1 work[/quote]
Perhaps that product is not what it claims to be. It is also part of a feedback system. So adding IGF-1 can cause the pituitary to release less GH just as taking test can reduce LH. And individual responses and sensitivities will vary.
If IGF-1 does not work, perhaps it is not IGF-1… just as some HGH product is fake or relabled HCG which is very inexpensive.
Can anyone report anything about dosing and costs for IGF-1?
theres a couple lines of thought on igf-1 we tried both and we know the source and brand is good . we got a bottle for 90$ and I have seen is as high as 300$. This was the third person I have tried out IGF on and didnt get anything noticable out of it. I have people I know that swear by it though. I just havnt seen any results so I wont be trying it myself.
I thought I would chip in my 2 cents based on purely personal experience.
I have used GH several times with different results and I have purchased it from as far away as a hospital in Iran when I was working there.
I noticed that at any dosage around or over 3 IU ED would give me Carpal tunnel symptoms, improved eyesight, faster recovery, better skin condition, water retention and fat loss.
Everything except the eyesight effect seemed dosage dependent… i.e. the more you took the fast the onset and the greater the effect.
I have never used more than 10 IU per day (5 IU 2xD)… the problem with the higher dosage to was the fat loss was offset by water retention and so I think now the best is to use a lower dosage for longer periods of time…
I have not yet foudn the magic on and off time frames tho… ie 5 days on 2 days off etc. But I do think there is some merit to that kind of protocol.
Fat loss and recovery aer strongly impacted by the presence of Test and the increase in well being is wonderful.
I personally like to use just EPO and GH at the same time for bridging I find it an amazing tool. In fact EPO is one of my favorite drugs when I can get it.
I would like to try a protocol staggering GH and IGF weekly with a layer of EPO.
About the water retention I found it passes pretty quickly when I stop using the GH but the carpal tunnel can last a long time months in fact.
About IGF I am still debating… I think I wil lbe more strict with its use and do deep IM rather than shallow… I wonder how it works with TEST???
Anyways thats my personal experience. Once I line up some more I will try again and see the results.
I’d imagine it’s also a way of telling if your shit is any good. I have a kit of jino and it looks very legit plus came from a very solid source. However I know it hasn’t been kept in a fridge for over 1 month now. The guy I got it from says it’s no problem as long as it’s in a cool place and out of the light.
I’ve checked around and that seems to be correct, still I’d like to maybe test a high dose shot (I tried 6 iu’s as a friend suggested but like a jack ass I split it up. I’m sure he meant 6iu’s at once should have given me the numbness.) I did 3iu’s and 3iu’s noticed nothing.
[quote]WideGuy wrote:
I’d imagine it’s also a way of telling if your shit is any good. I have a kit of jino and it looks very legit plus came from a very solid source. However I know it hasn’t been kept in a fridge for over 1 month now. The guy I got it from says it’s no problem as long as it’s in a cool place and out of the light.
I’ve checked around and that seems to be correct, still I’d like to maybe test a high dose shot (I tried 6 iu’s as a friend suggested but like a jack ass I split it up. I’m sure he meant 6iu’s at once should have given me the numbness.) I did 3iu’s and 3iu’s noticed nothing. [/quote]
it may take several days before the symptoms show in the joints so don’t discount it yet. I would just do whatever dose you had planned on doing and even at a lower dose you should feel that “pleasant” tightness in teh hands, wrists, and sometimes ankles within a week or two.
A question was asked about IGF-1 plus test. Many anti-aging clinics have HGH plus test as the foundation of their male anti-aging programs. There is a synergy when both are used together. HGH/IGF-1 probably allows the muscles to recover/heal faster too. I think that it would be a waste to use HGH/IGF-1 without test.
As for questions about HGH or IGF-1 being bogus or not. Just another reminder that there is a lot of fake stuff out there. If you are not using HCG, then you are not not going to show that you are pregnant with a test kit. If you do show that, someone has relabeled HCG. HCG is probably the cheapest thing to relabel, so it is good to be able to use a pregnancy test and know that you did not get HCG under another expensive label.