[quote]pat36 wrote:
BULLSHIT…Isreal is an has been the most attcked country in the world. Anything it does as far as I ma concerned is self defense. If they seem brutal it is because they have to be. Being pussy would only make things worse. Other than the tit-for-tat fighting that has been going on since the begining, there is no reason for the islamic-anti-semitism to exist. The muslims and jews have been fighting back and forth, but nobody can answer me this, why do the muslims hate the jews in the first place, why? Where did it come from? Is it because Isreal has Jeruselem? Or is it that muslims are fucking half backed kooks who warp there kids with blood and gunfire…[/quote]
Perhaps it’s because Israel has no legal right to exist as a state and it just happens to have been placed in the Arabs’ backyard?
If China suddenly declared the establishment of a “New People’s Republic” in Delaware and attempted to uphold it by military force, do you think the American residents of that region (or any other) would sit down and take it?
They aren’t holding anyone hostage except their military enemy and propaganda cannot possibly account for the widespread popularity of their cause throughout the Arab world.
[/quote]
In that region dissent is suppressed. Speaking out against Hizbollah would be like me tossing a grenade on the White House lawn.
Field reporters for Fox and CNN have personally interviewed Muslims in Lebanon who have privately expressed hatred for Hizbollah, but refused to go on camera out of fear. When you hear stuff like this it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out.
Suppression of dissent helps fuel the propaganda machine.
Pat36- your answer- quoting Moshe Dayan, who was head of Israel’s army for a long time, and did some hardcore fighting against the arabs, etc-
“They don’t hate us for religious reasons. They hate us because they see us, and rightly so, as westerners who have taken away their land.”
The zionist council demanded they take a load of Palestine as the jewish homeland, and after the Holocaust, mand also a lot of attacks from jewish terrorist squad ‘irgun’, Britain, and later the US, gave Jews what is known as ‘green line Israel’. Since then more wars have been fought, the arabs always lose in open war with the jews (for numerous reasons) and the jews just take more and more land, from the surrounding countries (not just palestine). They say it’s for security, but generals etc have openly admitted it’s not, as occupation of countries puts you far more at risk of being attacked.
Several UN resolutions have called for- terrorists to stop attacking Israel, Israel to give back all land not within the ‘green-line’, palestine to recognise Israel as a state (ie it’s not going away) etc.
These are ignored by all sides. BUT in what i have learned, Arafat was not the total bastard some claimed, and when he actually made concessions to Israel at camp david/oslo/brezhnev time, Israel rejected it, wanting more. Same thing with Sadat. Israel often turn down treaties, squeezing more blood. This is a fact my friend.
So we’re left with war for ever, or something has to change. BOTH sides have to change. Both sides must accept peace, and compromise. Israel must stop acting like a spoilt child, simultaneously as The arab terrorists shut their fucking noise/destruction in return for some of their (reasonable) demands. I’m not saying establish a worldwide muslim empire, just give their land back etc.
dannyrat - Thanks for that sucky answer. If the arabs want the land back, let them fight for it and kick isreal’s ass win it back. But they won’t becuase they are to weak and pathetic to beat isreal so they whine to the western media at how oppresed they are. I would like to see the entire middle east become a jewish paradise. Starting with mecca. Isreal belongs to the jews if you don’t like it, try to take it back. I dare you.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
pat36 wrote:
BULLSHIT…Isreal is an has been the most attcked country in the world. Anything it does as far as I ma concerned is self defense. If they seem brutal it is because they have to be. Being pussy would only make things worse. Other than the tit-for-tat fighting that has been going on since the begining, there is no reason for the islamic-anti-semitism to exist. The muslims and jews have been fighting back and forth, but nobody can answer me this, why do the muslims hate the jews in the first place, why? Where did it come from? Is it because Isreal has Jeruselem? Or is it that muslims are fucking half backed kooks who warp there kids with blood and gunfire…
Perhaps it’s because Israel has no legal right to exist as a state and it just happens to have been placed in the Arabs’ backyard?
If China suddenly declared the establishment of a “New People’s Republic” in Delaware and attempted to uphold it by military force, do you think the American residents of that region (or any other) would sit down and take it? [/quote]
Legal right? Whose law is that, yours? You sound like those vile idiot islamofacist women beating muslims who think killing people for no reason is a good idea. Should we have the homeland security folks worry about you?
Sounds about right. I can’t believe people don’t understand that fanatics that will blow themselves up, wipe a country off the map, target civilians and hide behind civilians have no moral boundaries left.
How come people are still believing the likes of these assholes? Every single statement coming out of the Lebonese side of the situation has been 9 parts out of 10 bullshit… including the “demonstrations”.
It’s all about the propaganda though. The majority of people in the Middle East really do believe all the evils happening over there are the result of Israel or the US. Fuck, if only the truth could get out some time.
The cognitive dissonance would probably be lethal.
Vroom, Israel is a terrorist organization BAR NONE with a long documented, verifiable history. For the most part everybody in the world except North Americans are fully aware of Israel’s modus operandi. Hezbollah, Hamas & Al Qeada are all products of Israel’s aggression - just like the new one’s to grow from this conflict. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0728-01.htm
Belgian Jewish Leader: Israel Committing War Crimes
Head of the Union of Belgian Jewish Progressives (UPJB) Dr. Jacques Ravedovitch stated that Israel is committing war crimes in Lebanon.
In an interview with Zaman in Brussels, Ravedovitch said that while former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon committed indirect war crimes, current Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is unquestionably a war criminal.
Dr. Ravedovitch said it is a shame that Jews who were once exposed to the holocaust are doing the same evil things against another nation today.
If your reason for such passionate “see no evil” attachment to Israel is for religious reasons, then might I suggest you do some research into who published your bible…
“The Scofield Reference Bible was not to be just another translation, subverting minor passages a little at a time. No, Scofield produced a revolutionary book that radically changed the context of the King James Version. It was designed to create a subculture around a new worship icon, the modern State of Israel, a state that did not yet exist, but which was already on the drawing boards of the committed, well-funded authors of World Zionism.”
I agree.
[/quote]
JustTheFacts, I?ve researched the Scofield Reference Bible and the pernicious role the Jews played in it (and I?m not referring to the fact that they took all the starring roles in the Bible for themselves). Joseph M. Canfield and Charles E. Carlson, towering theologians - veritable geniuses - have enlightened us so much. I am proud to have built on their work and to be able to shed further light on the dastardly deeds of the dreadful World Zionists.
One day in July 1947 the Bible-rewriting conspiracy was almost exposed. An aircraft shuttling in a group of bearded Zionist reinforcement forger-Rabbis crash landed at Roswell, New Mexico. The wreckage was bundled away in secrecy by the staff of Roswell Air Base all of whom were Eastern European Jews running a covert operation processing Matzos out of the blood of Christian babies under the guise of a Kosher Pickle Plant. New Mexico was the perfect place for these scurrilous covert activities because, as we all know, there are no Jews in New Mexico. (They would have been so obvious in a Zionist stronghold like New York, California or Florida). The cover story from the illegal government was that Roswell base was used for testing experimental aircraft at the time. Hardly surprising that the Jews then started the rumours that it was a UFO. This was bolstered by the release of some fake film ‘evidence’ of an autopsy on an alien being. Considering that the Jews controlled Hollywood this is understandable, although some people thought that the film footage was a rather embarrassingly obvious fake. Also, if you study the film really closely and play it at one frame per minute you will notice that the so-called alien was circumcised.
Intellectuals like you, JustTheFacts, know that you cannot put anything past these Zionists. They control the Illuminati and have been holding the reins of power in the world since ancient times. Most people don?t realize that the Illuminati is in fact the secret bloodline of the Reptoids, a race of space aliens who bred with humans to create a royal lineage, which includes (of course) the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the British royal family, as well as most presidents of the U.S., including both Bushes, and Al Gore, as well. Henry Ford and Joseph Kennedy were some of the few exceptions, but their names were blackened by the Zionist controlled media. So what if they supported Hitler? Hitler was also the victim of the left-leaning-pinko-homosexual-Jew media. This explains it.
If we put our minds to it, JustTheFacts, we can also begin to understand why the Illuminati assassinated Princess Diana who was pregnant with the child of an Arab Moslem. Dodi Fayed was a drunken drug-taking lapsed Moslem which explains why Al Quaeda conspired with MI5, the CIA and the Mossad to eliminate them using a Fiat Uno as the murder weapon. (If you have ever been in a Fiat Uno you will immediately understand the brilliance of this scheme). Fiat, as you know, is controlled by the Freemason-Illuminati-Zionist-Catholic Agnelli family).
JustTheFacts, you and I are amongst the few people who know that Joseph M. Canfield discovered that John F. Kennedy was about to expose the fact that the Zionists rewrote the Bible in order to control the Christian World. This is why they conspired with the Mafia, the KGB, the CIA and the FBI to assassinate him. He obviously made some made powerful enemies, and his conduct was such that his powerful friends were in equal danger from his presidency. The Hollywood Jews foisted loose women on him, but I digress. He had learned from Marilyn Monroe (who heard from her Jew-lovers Arthur Miller and Norman Mailer) that the Zionists led by Golda Mier were again about to radically alter the Bible and add two new Commandments! There would then be Twelve Commandments ? the proposed additions being ?Thou Shalst always vote Democratic? and ?Thou Shall Always Wear Ralph Lauren and Estee Lauder.? Needless to say, he had to go! Kennedy also opposed putting a man on the moon but Jewish business interests wanted to encourage the Space-Race. The Jewish Capitalists in the US and the Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union would all profit from this expenditure.
The Zionist One World Order assassins were very smart at covering up their tracks. Naturally the homosexual J Edgar Hoover helped them. Didn’t everyone hear shots from the Grassy Knoll? What about the Tague wounding? Who was the “Umbrella Man?” Did he eat herring? Was the rifle recovered really a Mauser? Surely using a German rifle was a clever subterfuge calculated to deflect suspicion from the Jews? Does the acoustic evidence show a shot from the Grassy Knoll? Were the Three Tramps suspicious? Were they Mossad agents? How could Kennedy’s head go “back and to the left?”
You’ve seen the Jew Kevin Costner give the conspiracy version of the Single Bullet theory. You know the story - Connally seated directly in front of Kennedy, at the same height, and facing straight ahead. Was that really what happened?
What sort of person was Lee Harvey Oswald? Did he really have “Top Secret” security clearance? Did he shoot at General Walker? Were there two Oswalds? Were they both Jewish? Harvey is a Jewish name. How much did the Zionists pay him? Was Oswald involved in rewriting the Scofield Reference Bible? Was the man exhumed in 1981 really somebody besides Oswald? Did Oswald really share an office with Guy Banister? Was Guy Bannister a Zionist agent? Did Clay Shaw really use the alias “Clay Bertrand?” Was Clay Shaw?s real name Chaim Shawkowitz? Why did Oliver Stone make a movie about the Shaw trial and not even mention Perry Raymond Russo? Was Perry Raymond Russo involved in rewriting the Scofield Reference Bible? Did David Ferrie die a mysterious death? Was the Scofield Reference Bible used at his funeral? What about Jim Garrison and the Mafia? Did he meet the Zionist Meyer Lansky? Did the bullet that hit Kennedy in the back penetrate only an inch and fall out? Was Kennedy hit in the head by a bullet from in front? Are the autopsy photos and x-rays faked? Did all the Jewish doctors at Parkland Hospital believe that Kennedy was hit in the front of the neck, and if so, are their opinions decisive evidence that that is what happened? Was the back of Kennedy’s head blown out? Were the autopsy photos faked by the KGB, CIA, Mafia, Zionists and FBI?
The “lone nut” theory of the assassination is really the “two lone nuts” theory. What sort of person was Jack Ruby? A mobster? An intelligence agent? A small-time hustler? The sort of volatile character who might really have shot Oswald out of righteous anger? Oh no ? he was a paid agent of the Illuminati Zionists.
To get back to the moon ?. it is perfectly obvious to intellectuals like you and me, JustTheFacts, that we never went to the moon and that the moon landings were faked. Yes! They were faked by the same people who faked the Bible ? YES ? the Zionists!
We know that NASA lacked the technical expertise to put a man on the Moon. Where were the stars in lunar surface photographs? The film used by astronauts on the moon would have melted due to the high levels of radiation. What about the undulating flags seen in video clips? Flags moving in a vacuum? Even the Jews don?t think of everything! The Hollywood moguls staged the whole thing in the Arizona desert.
I am so pleased that you are playing your part in exposing these Illuminati-Zionist-One World Order- Capitalist Exploiter-Communist Exploiter Jews.
JustTheFacts, it is up to intellectuals like you and me to keep the Free World safe. Fortunately we have really important academic journals like is the National Enquirer to keep us informed. Imagine the editorial brilliance it takes to so deftly combine the unbelievable with the merely unpalatable.
In conclusion, JustTheFacts, some crazy person said to me that no consideration of conspiracies would be complete without mention of the survivalist cults of North America. These are people who stockpile arms and food against the day when the American Government will turn against the people. Or in the event of the inevitable nuclear war. Or when the entire planet will be eaten by an enormous mutant star goat, or some such.
However jaundiced your view of early 21st Century American government, and to be fair that can be pretty jaundiced without straying from the mainstream, it is scarcely credible that the future of the world’s largest economy could be in the hands of the readership of Soldier of Fortune magazine.
JustTheFacts, let us face facts ? you and I and people who think like us are not only idiots, we are, simply put, dangerous idiots.
[quote]Applesauce wrote:
In that region dissent is suppressed. Speaking out against Hizbollah would be like me tossing a grenade on the White House lawn.
Field reporters for Fox and CNN have personally interviewed Muslims in Lebanon who have privately expressed hatred for Hizbollah, but refused to go on camera out of fear. When you hear stuff like this it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out.
Suppression of dissent helps fuel the propaganda machine.
[/quote]
That’s highly suspect. Lebanon is (or should I say, was) not some oppressive back-water regime. It is a modern, westernized nation.
Moreover, suppression of dissent can’t account for Hezbollah’s popularity in other Middle Eastern nations. Nations whose moderate governments shy away from supporting their actions.
This is a very shallow myth. Hezbollah is not winning popularity at the point of a gun. It is a legitimate independance movement which uses legitimate grievances to win converts.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
If the arabs want the land back, let them fight for it and kick isreal’s ass win it back. But they won’t becuase they are to weak and pathetic to beat isreal so they whine to the western media at how oppresed they are. I would like to see the entire middle east become a jewish paradise. Starting with mecca. Isreal belongs to the jews if you don’t like it, try to take it back. I dare you.[/quote]
What a dumbass post. The Arab countries haven’t succeeded in taking Israel back because they don’t have the world’s largest superpower arming them and ensuring their existence. Israel does. If that support were ever to disappear, Israel would be overrun.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Legal right? Whose law is that, yours? You sound like those vile idiot islamofacist women beating muslims who think killing people for no reason is a good idea. Should we have the homeland security folks worry about you?[/quote]
I was referring to the international laws at the time of Israel’s establishment. But you’re half right, in that talk of laws and legal precedents is rather pointless because all laws are established and enforced by violence. The problem then becomes a matter of hypocrisy, as the typical neocon mindset is that the U.S. can disregard laws at will, but when other countries follow suit, such as Iran & N. Korea, they are “evil” and automatically become candidates for regime change.
The other things you wrote were really stupid. Muslim extremists have plenty of reasons for their violent actions. Whether you agree with these reasons is a different matter altogether. But the reasons are there.
And if the use of force is justified by those who wield power, then why do you take issue with the beating of women? Let them defend themselves.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
pat36 wrote:
If the arabs want the land back, let them fight for it and kick isreal’s ass win it back. But they won’t becuase they are to weak and pathetic to beat isreal so they whine to the western media at how oppresed they are. I would like to see the entire middle east become a jewish paradise. Starting with mecca. Isreal belongs to the jews if you don’t like it, try to take it back. I dare you.
What a dumbass post. The Arab countries haven’t succeeded in taking Israel back because they don’t have the world’s largest superpower arming them and ensuring their existence. Israel does. If that support were ever to disappear, Israel would be overrun.
pat36 wrote:
Legal right? Whose law is that, yours? You sound like those vile idiot islamofacist women beating muslims who think killing people for no reason is a good idea. Should we have the homeland security folks worry about you?
I was referring to the international laws at the time of Israel’s establishment. But you’re half right, in that talk of laws and legal precedents is rather pointless because all laws are established and enforced by violence. The problem then becomes a matter of hypocrisy, as the typical neocon mindset is that the U.S. can disregard laws at will, but when other countries follow suit, such as Iran & N. Korea, they are “evil” and automatically become candidates for regime change.
The other things you wrote were really stupid. Muslim extremists have plenty of reasons for their violent actions. Whether you agree with these reasons is a different matter altogether. But the reasons are there.
And if the use of force is justified by those who wield power, then why do you take issue with the beating of women? Let them defend themselves.[/quote]
They can’t take it back with force, well tough shit for them, and you for that matter, I am guessing. That is the only way they will get it, with decisive victory so if they cannot beat them, they need to learn to live with them. I guess whining is just and strapping bombs to brainwashed kids is just easier.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
They can’t take it back with force, well tough shit for them, and you for that matter, I am guessing. That is the only way they will get it, with decisive victory so if they cannot beat them, they need to learn to live with them. I guess whining is just and strapping bombs to brainwashed kids is just easier.[/quote]
Terrorism is used against military powers because it works where conventional warfare fails.
Why should they stop doing it?
Sounds like you’re doing the whining now.
Terrorism is a price that Israel will always have to pay due to the circumstances of it’s birth. But I think that a conventional war is brewing in that region which has the potential to change the balance of power.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
But I think that a conventional war is brewing in that region which has the potential to change the balance of power.[/quote]
This is extremely interesting. Why do you think that and how do you envision a conventional war in that region being carried out?
Arab unity doesn’t exist. It didn’t exist in the 67, or 73 war. The Syrians and Egyptian militarys lied to each other about when they would attack and how successful they were. There was no coordination. What has changed? There certainly isn’t any one country in that region that can take on Isreal by itself conventionally.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Suppression of dissent helps fuel the propaganda machine.
That’s highly suspect. Lebanon is (or should I say, was) not some oppressive back-water regime. It is a modern, westernized nation.
Moreover, suppression of dissent can’t account for Hezbollah’s popularity in other Middle Eastern nations. Nations whose moderate governments shy away from supporting their actions.
This is a very shallow myth. Hezbollah is not winning popularity at the point of a gun. It is a legitimate independance movement which uses legitimate grievances to win converts.
[/quote]
Lebanon is far from a westernized nation. Members of a terrorist organization hold parliamentry seats there. They are not in control of their own country. Western nations- such as the US- do not allow terrorists to run for office. They do not let militant groups shoot rockets into neighboring countries. If a militant group was firing rockets into Mexico from the US they would be eliminated faster than Old Yeller.
The fact that Lebanon is considered a democracy is a crock of shit.
Hezbollah is in control. They are controlling the foreign media. They force them to report lies in order to fuel the propaganda machine. They decide what can be photographed and filmed. How do you think they get away with this?
If they are strong-arming American media then you are a fool to think they aren’t doing the same to Lebanese citezens.
[quote]BH6 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
But I think that a conventional war is brewing in that region which has the potential to change the balance of power.
This is extremely interesting. Why do you think that and how do you envision a conventional war in that region being carried out?
Arab unity doesn’t exist. It didn’t exist in the 67, or 73 war. The Syrians and Egyptian militarys lied to each other about when they would attack and how successful they were. There was no coordination. What has changed? There certainly isn’t any one country in that region that can take on Isreal by itself conventionally.
[/quote]
Yes, Arab unity (or lack thereof) is the major obstacle to the Palestinian cause and the major boon to Israel and the U.S.
The situation is reminiscent of the German states in central Europe prior to their unification under the Prussian banner.
It’s quite evident that Iran now is trying to do what Prussia did then – unify the region and emerge as the new dominant power. This will necessarily entail a clash with the current regional power - Israel - much like Bismarck had to defeat Austria and France in order to establish Prussia’s dominance of Europe.
The Western powers are indirectly speeding the process through their military actions in the region, which have done everything to foster extremism and endanger the livelyhood of the more moderate states.
I don’t disagree with the neocon assertion that WWIII is brewing. I strongly disagree with them on the cause, however.
[quote]Applesauce wrote:
Lebanon is far from a westernized nation. Members of a terrorist organization hold parliamentry seats there. They are not in control of their own country. Western nations- such as the US- do not allow terrorists to run for office. They do not let militant groups shoot rockets into neighboring countries. If a militant group was firing rockets into Mexico from the US they would be eliminated faster than Old Yeller.
The fact that Lebanon is considered a democracy is a crock of shit.
Hezbollah is in control. They are controlling the foreign media. They force them to report lies in order to fuel the propaganda machine. They decide what can be photographed and filmed. How do you think they get away with this?
If they are strong-arming American media then you are a fool to think they aren’t doing the same to Lebanese citezens.[/quote]
Your post is hilarious because it exemplifies some of the major fallacies underlying the neocon mindset. Namely, “It can’t be a democracy if it’s not pro-U.S.”
“We invaded their country to give them the freedom to select their own government…provided it’s pro-Western, of course”.
In other words, you have the “freedom” to do what I tell you.
The notion that “democracy” is some kind of panacea for all the troubles of the Middle East is foolish and juvenile. There is absolutely NO reason why a democractic state cannot elect a fundamentalist government that is hostile to the U.S.
This is the lesson that is currently being learned in Iraq, and it annoys the occupying powers to no end.
Lebanon is a democracy because it operates under democractic principles of government, not because it is pro or anti U.S. The “undemocratic” accusation is a very weak straw man that cannot possibly stand on its own.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Applesauce wrote:
Lebanon is far from a westernized nation. Members of a terrorist organization hold parliamentry seats there. They are not in control of their own country. Western nations- such as the US- do not allow terrorists to run for office. They do not let militant groups shoot rockets into neighboring countries. If a militant group was firing rockets into Mexico from the US they would be eliminated faster than Old Yeller.
The fact that Lebanon is considered a democracy is a crock of shit.
Hezbollah is in control. They are controlling the foreign media. They force them to report lies in order to fuel the propaganda machine. They decide what can be photographed and filmed. How do you think they get away with this?
If they are strong-arming American media then you are a fool to think they aren’t doing the same to Lebanese citezens.
Your post is hilarious because it exemplifies some of the major fallacies underlying the neocon mindset. Namely, “It can’t be a democracy if it’s not pro-U.S.”
“We invaded their country to give them the freedom to select their own government…provided it’s pro-Western, of course”.
In other words, you have the “freedom” to do what I tell you.
The notion that “democracy” is some kind of panacea for all the troubles of the Middle East is foolish and juvenile. There is absolutely NO reason why a democractic state cannot elect a fundamentalist government that is hostile to the U.S.
This is the lesson that is currently being learned in Iraq, and it annoys the occupying powers to no end.
Lebanon is a democracy because it operates under democractic principles of government, not because it is pro or anti U.S. The “undemocratic” accusation is a very weak straw man that cannot possibly stand on its own.[/quote]
What’s hillarious is that a country, any country, cannot be legitimate if said country cannot even establish legitimate control within their borders. If you can’t control what’s going on in your own country, if your government is not in controll, you ARE NOT a legitimate country. It sounds to me like hezbollah is in charge in Lebannon.
I forgot who said it on these forums, but I really believe it to be true.
“If the enemies of Isreal were disarmed tomorrow, the fighting would stop. If Isreal was disarmed tomorrow, Isreal would be wiped off the face of the earth.”
Legitimate by whose standards – The U.S. and Israel’s?
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I forgot who said it on these forums, but I really believe it to be true.
“If the enemies of Isreal were disarmed tomorrow, the fighting would stop. If Isreal was disarmed tomorrow, Isreal would be wiped off the face of the earth.”
[quote]Applesauce wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Suppression of dissent helps fuel the propaganda machine.
That’s highly suspect. Lebanon is (or should I say, was) not some oppressive back-water regime. It is a modern, westernized nation.
Moreover, suppression of dissent can’t account for Hezbollah’s popularity in other Middle Eastern nations. Nations whose moderate governments shy away from supporting their actions.
This is a very shallow myth. Hezbollah is not winning popularity at the point of a gun. It is a legitimate independance movement which uses legitimate grievances to win converts.
Lebanon is far from a westernized nation. Members of a terrorist organization hold parliamentry seats there. They are not in control of their own country. Western nations- such as the US- do not allow terrorists to run for office. They do not let militant groups shoot rockets into neighboring countries. If a militant group was firing rockets into Mexico from the US they would be eliminated faster than Old Yeller.
The fact that Lebanon is considered a democracy is a crock of shit.
Hezbollah is in control. They are controlling the foreign media. They force them to report lies in order to fuel the propaganda machine. They decide what can be photographed and filmed. How do you think they get away with this?
If they are strong-arming American media then you are a fool to think they aren’t doing the same to Lebanese citezens.[/quote]
No the media are will participants and are infact shocked and how anti-semetic the Hezbols are.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
pat36 wrote:
They can’t take it back with force, well tough shit for them, and you for that matter, I am guessing. That is the only way they will get it, with decisive victory so if they cannot beat them, they need to learn to live with them. I guess whining is just and strapping bombs to brainwashed kids is just easier.
Terrorism is used against military powers because it works where conventional warfare fails.
Why should they stop doing it?
Sounds like you’re doing the whining now.
Terrorism is a price that Israel will always have to pay due to the circumstances of it’s birth. But I think that a conventional war is brewing in that region which has the potential to change the balance of power.[/quote]
Is it working? Let see they attacked us and we took out two arab countries and counting. Isreal is wiping it’s ass with lebenon and gaza. I’d say the “insurgency” is more of an inconveniece then a successful tactic. I’d say it’s failing miserably. If they want the US to leave, leave us alone and we will. Terrorism only works on Europeans.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
BH6 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
But I think that a conventional war is brewing in that region which has the potential to change the balance of power.
This is extremely interesting. Why do you think that and how do you envision a conventional war in that region being carried out?
Arab unity doesn’t exist. It didn’t exist in the 67, or 73 war. The Syrians and Egyptian militarys lied to each other about when they would attack and how successful they were. There was no coordination. What has changed? There certainly isn’t any one country in that region that can take on Isreal by itself conventionally.
Yes, Arab unity (or lack thereof) is the major obstacle to the Palestinian cause and the major boon to Israel and the U.S.
The situation is reminiscent of the German states in central Europe prior to their unification under the Prussian banner.
It’s quite evident that Iran now is trying to do what Prussia did then – unify the region and emerge as the new dominant power. This will necessarily entail a clash with the current regional power - Israel - much like Bismarck had to defeat Austria and France in order to establish Prussia’s dominance of Europe.
The Western powers are indirectly speeding the process through their military actions in the region, which have done everything to foster extremism and endanger the livelyhood of the more moderate states.
I don’t disagree with the neocon assertion that WWIII is brewing. I strongly disagree with them on the cause, however. [/quote]
I think you are forgetting that Iran is not an Arabic country, Iranians are Persians. There is animosity between Arabs and Persians. Iran is not going to be able to unify the region. Iran historically wants to control the region. Sunni Arabs are not going to tolerate or follow a Shiite Persian led leadership. Iran may try to indirectly control the region by sponsoring terrorist attacks against Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, but until they overthrow the governments and people of those countries, they aren’t going to be able to exert any influence. The Iranian attempts to exert influence on the Iraqi shiite population is being resisted because of the Iraqi memory of being controlled by Iran prior to the Ottoman Turks.
Yeah, all that happened, Iran and the other countries commonly mentioned in the same breath?
Unified only by the hatred they have for external invaders, and attackers. Building alliances, the backwards way.
If Iran wants to act big balls and talk about nuclear programs and deadly yields and stuff they are playing a very dangerous game.
But until they start actually swinging actual big balls it’s all talk. All talk because if they a) wanted to use nukes and b) had nukes- they’d use nukes right?
Assuming that everyone would rather see the wars end, than neccessarily someone is lord of all the world-
I suggest the whole mideast is an unsolved experiment of the West.
It was we who inspired the arab revolts against the feeble old Ottoman setup.
ETC Israel and stuff.
Please take credence to less war, the path of least resistance.
Please, a show of hands-
Who wants to stop terrorists operating violently?
Who wants to entirely cripple the infrastructure and civilised features, as well as public health, of many or all of the nations taht contain terrorists?
[quote] rainjack wrote=
FYI - the side that kills the most people wins. Isn’t that how they keep score in a war?
There should be not so much as a doghouse standing in Lebanon, Syria, or Iran.[/quote]
The first vote is in.
My own is ‘Peace but not at any cost. Prove how moral and civilised you are. Fight clever, kill only evil men. A mortar is not the tool to kill an insidious enemy correctly. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.’