Hey guys! I’ve been lurking the forums for a while now
have a few cycles under my belt now and this is the latest one.
Just wanted some feedback from some seasoned vets.
I’m Torn between 2 possible options
Nothing is ordered yet- I just want some feedback from guys who have been doing it longer
1-4 Dbol 50 ED
1-15 Test E 500 EW
1-15 EQ 600 EW
14-18 Winny Inj 50 ED
Or
1-4 Dbol 50 ED
1-15 Test E 500 EW
1-15 EQ 600 EW
9-15 Mast P 75 ED
runing Adex .25 eod all the way through
PCT already on hand wont start till 3 weeks after last injection when the ester from the EQ clears.
Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
First time using EQ Btw.
I will be frontloading the test for sure- I have heard you can do this with EQ as well and might just to get things rolling.
The only reason I was thinking Inj winny is because I didn’t want to have 2 orals in one cycle. Ive been told that’s not a good idea. I knew I could just drink it but I mean how bad can the pin hurt? If its not crippling I could handle it.
You think mast would be better to have in this than winny?
no. this will be number 4. First one was just test, then test and var, the last one was the standard Test/deca/dbol. sort of testing the waters as I go- I want to know how I react to things before I get crazy. Call me cautious.
Unfortunately, injecting a 17aa oral will do nothing to avoid the liver. As far as I am aware, the only difference is the means of absorption, skeletal muscle vs the GI, however, it will still be metabolised by the liver, ergo you still have two orals in your cycle.
I think the advice that is generally given about the stacking of orals in not to use them concurrently (although many people do, so as with anything it’s open to debate) You however seem to have 10 weeks between your planned Dbol ‘kickstart’ and your Winstrol usage. I would think that is adequate time off.
I am currently running test/EQ (2 weeks in so far) albeit at slightly lower doses than you have planned, and I really like it. I will be adding in Winstrol soon, like you I like to wait until I am accustomed to one compound before throwing in another. I’d call it smart rather than cautious
Your cycle is long enough you have plenty of time between orals. More than I usually take but then again I have blatant disregard for my health.
And winny injections can hurt pretty bad depending on the brand. I know a dude that said he had to shake his, pull it up quickly in an 18g, and shoot with a 21 so it wouldn’t clog. And he had a knot every shot. He wouldn’t be training whatever area he shot it in for a day or 2 at least.
Don’t be surprised if you don’t see a lot from the EQ for a long time. A lot of powerlifters that cruise/blast have been adding EQ in year round. They seem to notice the best results starting about week 12.
Winny and mast would both be good at the end. I would pick mast, just because I’m not a huge fan of winstrol.
Also, Bo Slice, 2 weeks into EQ and a long estered test, you are just now reaching higher blood levels, so adding the winstrol in “soon” will not be allowing your body to “get accustomed” to them before adding another compound. If you say, waited another week or two, you will be throwing the winstrol in right as the levels of test and EQ are reaching a high enough point to be in effect. This early most everything is placebo IMO.
Ah yes, I suppose I ought to specify how ‘soon’, soon actually means. Im leaning towards adding the Winstrol for the last 4 weeks, giving me a few weeks at peak EQ/test levels.
As for placebo, IMO it is probably a combination of both, there is some degree of placebo effect subconsciously, but there are also things which are definitely not (eg. increase in bodyhair, vascularity etc.) I know of people who tell me they get ‘charged up’ minutes after injecting, THAT is placebo effect! Ha ha
That is only coming from my limited personal experience however, Im here to learn of course
[quote]BoSlice wrote:
Unfortunately, injecting a 17aa oral will do nothing to avoid the liver. As far as I am aware, the only difference is the means of absorption, skeletal muscle vs the GI, however, it will still be metabolised by the liver, ergo you still have two orals in your cycle.
[/quote]
Is this true? I thought the injectables at least avoided “first pass” through the liver, meaning it is less toxic (acknowledging it still eventually has to be processed).
It was my understanding that it was the 17aa which allowed it to survive the first pass of the liver? In which case, if injecting bypassed this, when it eventually come to be metabolised, wouldn’t this be the ‘first’ pass?
I would love to be able to explain myself more articulately but I’ve just got home from 2 hours of Boxing and can barely string a sentence together.
The vast majority of my research has come from T-Nation here and I believe that Prisoner wrote something explaining the actions of 17aa orals when ingested/injected. This is just how I understood it. If this isn’t the case, I’d love to know how it does work.
Please ignore what I wrote earlier, it was a pretty daft thing to say. As soon as I thought about it for 5 minutes I realised how wrong I was. I understand the first pass is via the GI, and the 2nd through the blood.
I still fail to see that it would be any less harmful by injecting, after all, the same amount of steroid is in your system. Speculation on my behalf however.
Back to the OP, if your sure of your source, why not try an inject? And revert to oral consumption if it is a painful shot?
If it was me, I’d go with the 2nd cycle, or some variant of it. I’ve run similar cycles in the past (though I usually prefer to go with Primo instead of EQ). Winny just doesn’t do it for me, but obviously others do better with it.
As you outlined it, I like the way the masteron comes in to play in the 2nd half of that cycle, when the rate of your gains would be slowing down anyway. With both of them they more or less do the same thing…the first half is more mass oriented, and the second half obviously a little more of a recomp assuming you dropped your cals down a bit.
The only other significant change I’d make would be to frontload the T and EQ, wait a few weeks or so to begin the dbol (3-6 or 4-7) so that you’re getting more synergy from it. (I’d probably also do a semi-gradual transition from Test E to prop somewhere around week 12 or when I started the masteron, and run that at full dose until the EQ clears, but that’s just me and I don’t want to make it more confusing.)
Bah, my second post was supposed to come before your jive talkin’ but ho hum, I’ll try again.
Ok so, I think, that the liver receives blood from the small intestine and also from circulation.
So with oral ingestion the 17aa hormone passes through the liver from blood from the small intestine.
After injection, the hormone enters the bloodstream via capillaries. This blood then eventually passes through the liver, hormone, alkylation and all?
So, would the liver not be stressed regardless, as it will always eventually pass and the alkylation needs to be metabolised for the parent hormone to work, correct?
Please tell me if I’m blindingly wrong here but it just got me thinking, and that thur’ was ma thunkin’
We will be learning about this in class in a few units so maybe I can give more detail on it in a few weeks. My professor mentioned he wanted to spend one whole class on explaining how the liver metabolizes various drugs though.
