I saw this on a supplier’s site, and was intrigued. Has anyone ever used it or spoken with someone who has? I just enjoy seeing new (to me at least) things come on the market.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
However, at leas the lipid profile altering effects of the 17aa modification should be cancelled by making it into injectable, not oral/injectable suspension of oral.
Bushy[/quote]
Bushy, if it’s not 17aa, could a user expect different effects from regular winstrol? In other words, Does the 17aa modification change the steroid with regards to it’s anabolic/androgenic nature? I seem to remember Cy Willson writing about this a few years back, but my mind could just be playing tricks on me, lol.
Thanks.
Bushy, with all due respect I’m with Whoa! on this one. Take a look at steroids that receive a 17aa modification - their effects drastically change. Take, for example “Oral Tren”, or Metribolone. It’s a methylated version of Tren, however it’s displays MUCH more androgenic activity than injectable tren. The only explanation is the 17aa modification that the compound has received. I believe I read in an article (I think it was William Llewellyn) that 17aa does indeed change the effects of steroids. This makes sense if we look at our Injectable Tren vs. Oral Tren theory.
I think looking into Winny without the methylation could be an interesting experiment. Might act as a completely different compound.
17aa only changes the effects because it slows down the liver when it breaks down the aas. As most know you could very well just swallow aas without 17aa and it would be a total waste because your liver would immediately flush it out.
I’ve heard that Winny hurtsthe joints, but that’s why I thought the decanoate ester might be interesting. I think that this ester might reduce spot pain for the injection and maybe increase water retention to counteract/lessen the joint pain.
[quote]Schmazz wrote:
Bushy, with all due respect I’m with Whoa! on this one. Take a look at steroids that receive a 17aa modification - their effects drastically change. Take, for example “Oral Tren”, or Metribolone. It’s a methylated version of Tren, however it’s displays MUCH more androgenic activity than injectable tren. The only explanation is the 17aa modification that the compound has received. I believe I read in an article (I think it was William Llewellyn) that 17aa does indeed change the effects of steroids. This makes sense if we look at our Injectable Tren vs. Oral Tren theory.
I think looking into Winny without the methylation could be an interesting experiment. Might act as a completely different compound.[/quote]
Some of the steroid gurus do say that winni-v which as we all know is an injectable liquid 17aa that is identical to oral winstrol exhibits different effects when injected vs. when it is swallowed. Who knows how true that is though… It sucks having to rely on gurus.
[quote]Schmazz wrote:
Bushy, with all due respect I’m with Whoa! on this one. Take a look at steroids that receive a 17aa modification - their effects drastically change. Take, for example “Oral Tren”, or Metribolone. It’s a methylated version of Tren, however it’s displays MUCH more androgenic activity than injectable tren. The only explanation is the 17aa modification that the compound has received. I believe I read in an article (I think it was William Llewellyn) that 17aa does indeed change the effects of steroids. This makes sense if we look at our Injectable Tren vs. Oral Tren theory.
I think looking into Winny without the methylation could be an interesting experiment. Might act as a completely different compound.[/quote]
I am pretty sure methylation and 17-Alpha alkalation are two completely different chemical structures. And from what I recall the methylation usually is less liver toxic
[quote]Prisoner wrote:
I am pretty sure methylation and 17-Alpha alkalation are two completely different chemical structures. And from what I recall the methylation usually is less liver toxic[/quote]
Ahhhh… that would make sense. Thanks for the clarification, Prisoner.
Yeah, here’s the Cy Wilson article I was referring to in my first post:http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459867&cr=
In it he says:
[quote]The only problem I have is the general idea of a person calling a steroid the “oral version” after they’ve added a methyl group at the C-17. They assume it’s the same molecule and exerts the same effects, the only difference being it’s orally active. This is simply not true.
In doing such a thing, you’re creating a molecule which can have completely different effects. So, comparing what they currently have to a product which was 17 alpha-alkylated wouldn’t be accurate in terms of potency.[/quote]
He also says:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the first quote it seems like he is referring to methylation/alkylation as the same thing? I’m hoping one of the vets can clarify this as I don’t know a whole lot about this stuff, obviously. lol
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
OK, but I was under the impression that the 17aa (or methyl) addition gets removed before the oral steroid makes it into the systemic circulation.
Obviously though, this is not true if you inject the winstrol. I have to say though, that personally, I don’t remember noticing much (if any) difference in effect between winstrol consumed orally Vs injected.
Bushy[/quote]
I hate chemistry but from what I recall there is a pyroxyl group, or something like that that get’s cleaved off during the first pass from the GI. this doesn’t occurr with the injected route.
Supposedly the ORAl winstrol is less anabolic and has greater affinity for SHBG then injected winstrol due to being absorbed in the GI.