CC, big mistake here:
I’m talking about non-bodybuilding athletes. Like Prof.X did.
The only non-bodybuilding athletes I ever encountered in my life, who came close or could top Herschel’s physique, were lifting dilligently, (and were juicing) - that includes quite some pro-athletes.
Herschel got his body seemingly en passent. Which is pretty ridculous.
And which is, according to Prof.X, the norm to happen even without iron, cause all you need to do is play some basketball. Strange how 99% of all german football(soccer) pro players don’t look like Herschel?
Or the handballers, the basketballers…the only german pro whom I can imagine comes close or maybe tops his physique is Tim Lobinger and he pushes the iron.
As for bodybuilding (like in: someone who lifts exclusively!), I’ve never encountered an average dude who could look like that in two years.
Doable? Yes, probably.
But still quite a feat -with good genes.
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
WhiteFlash,
As was stated earlier, if you are extremely focused, dedicated, and disciplined, you would be absolutely amazed at what the human body is capable of. I can personally attest to that. You should give it a try before putting limits on yourself and others. Genetics or otherwise.
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
Exactly, and that is the take home point from this thread.
If you are into weight lifting and bodybuilding and you DON’T look bigger and more muscular than that after training for 5 years, there is something wrong with either you or your training. You just don’t have what it takes.
Period.
You might be able to gain “a little muscle”, but clearly your goals should be changed to simply being the best you that you can be instead of trying to match anyone else.
Walker is an elite athlete who has trained hard most of his life. He has great genetics. He is in great shape (like EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD has acknowledged), but he does not look so muscular that other people with decent genetics would think he is some serious weight lifter. He clearly isn’t. What he is, is way bigger than the average video game playing fat ass who can’t bench press their own body weight.
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
WhiteFlash,
As was stated earlier, if you are extremely focused, dedicated, and disciplined, you would be absolutely amazed at what the human body is capable of. I can personally attest to that. You should give it a try before putting limits on yourself and others. Genetics or otherwise.[/quote]
LOL. You don’t understand this audience yet. They will cry “steroids genetics!!” at anyone who does better than them as if THAT is why and not the fact that their entire approach may be off.
The people you are going up against in some way ENJOY being lesser yet degrading everyone who is seen as doing any better.
That is why they try their hardest to act like I’m obese as if any progress made is irrelevant until I am less than 6% body fat.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
NO ONE HERE looked/looks like that after two years of lifting. Stop kidding yourselves.[/quote]
You can’t get your arms to 16 inches after 2 years of lifting? Or a little over 15, in the case of a guy of average height? Are you guys all doing starting strength or something?
Again, see smalltobig as one recent example…
[/quote]
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
The being lean part takes from a few weeks to a few months of dieting…
7 years for 50 lbs? I’m not even going to say genetics here. I think you did a thing or two wrong. Plain and simple. Or maybe you started in your 40’s? (I have no idea how old you are). What were you training for back then?
50 lbs is what I’d expect a total beginner to gain in their first year at least (starting in their 20’s or 30’s), at least those guys who start out underweight (like 120-140 at average height with 12(or less) to 13 inch arms). I don’t mean to insult your progress either, you’ve eventually gotten to a nice size for a non-bodybuilder/powerlifter over the years.
But I think you guys like to overlook a lot of things here that are far more likely to be responsible for your progress being slower than genetics/ (and drugs)…
What was your training like back then and your diet? Party/drink much or anything like that?
[/quote]
I started out at about 130 at 5’9 with 11" arms. I’m 28 now. Oh, of course I did things wrong, probably more than most. But, I’m not ashamed of my progress. I lift to be bigger/stronger/faster. I could honestly give a shit about aesthetics and proportions.
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
WhiteFlash,
As was stated earlier, if you are extremely focused, dedicated, and disciplined, you would be absolutely amazed at what the human body is capable of. I can personally attest to that. You should give it a try before putting limits on yourself and others. Genetics or otherwise.[/quote]
LOL. You don’t understand this audience yet. They will cry “steroids genetics!!” at anyone who does better than them as if THAT is why and not the fact that their entire approach may be off.
The people you are going up against in some way ENJOY being lesser yet degrading everyone who is seen as doing any better.
That is why they try their hardest to act like I’m obese as if any progress made is irrelevant until I am less than 6% body fat.[/quote]
Fellas, I’m fine with my genetics. I can dunk a basketball from a standstill, run the 40 in about 4.5 and have been getting pussy based solely on my looks for a long time. I’m truly ok. I never put limitations on my self, and always strive to be better. But, I do understand what my strengths and weaknesses are. That’s not to say I don’t try to make my weaknesses less so, just saying I know where I stand.
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
WhiteFlash,
As was stated earlier, if you are extremely focused, dedicated, and disciplined, you would be absolutely amazed at what the human body is capable of. I can personally attest to that. You should give it a try before putting limits on yourself and others. Genetics or otherwise.[/quote]
LOL. You don’t understand this audience yet. They will cry “steroids genetics!!” at anyone who does better than them as if THAT is why and not the fact that their entire approach may be off.
The people you are going up against in some way ENJOY being lesser yet degrading everyone who is seen as doing any better.
That is why they try their hardest to act like I’m obese as if any progress made is irrelevant until I am less than 6% body fat.[/quote]
Fellas, I’m fine with my genetics. I can dunk a basketball from a standstill, run the 40 in about 4.5 and have been getting pussy based solely on my looks for a long time. I’m truly ok. I never put limitations on my self, and always strive to be better. But, I do understand what my strengths and weaknesses are. That’s not to say I don’t try to make my weaknesses less so, just saying I know where I stand.[/quote]
That’s all good. I know where I stand as well…yet you have to admit to trying to claim otherwise.
Walker is 6 foot 1. He weighed about 215lbs at weigh in…which is NOT that damned impressive by the standards of serious weight lifters even though his SHAPE and LEANNESS is and that is due to genetics and his own truly hard work.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I don’t think it’s just Herschel Walker who ends up in great shape from just push-ups, situps and pull ups. Many people have had a physique change during boot camp, and that’s only 6 weeks. If you imagine a lifetime of intense training, no alcohol, and not eating like shit even with decent genetics alot of people would look close to that in a picture.
Without knowing his history I would definitely think he spends some time in the gym at least 3-4 days a week. Arguing with someone heavy into bodybuilding over whether he looks like he lifts is pretty stupid unless a relative line is drawn on what effects steroids would have. After all comparing him to most lifetime “natural” bodybuilding competitions, herschel is same size or bigger with relatively close bodyfat levels outside of the 2week competition window, and overall thigh shape. The only difference would be him lifting for aesthetic purposes which would mean probably adding some bicep/shoulder work and building a better vtaper. [/quote]
Are you serious, your a fan of bodybuilding and you put that up? Considering all the lighting and camera angles making people look all kinds of sizes to post a picture of him in a not fitted Top Out Shirt as a sign of a small guy? The guys arms look borderline 13 inches in that shirt. It’s clear as day he’s not THAT small [/quote] Ok. It is clear that he is not as small as he looks in an actual recent picture of himself. Yes, that makes perfect sense… What? And who said he looked small? Those were your words, not mine. I was simply amazed that you and others go on about how crazy and near-unattainable his physique is.
What exactly is your problem? He looks great for his age and all, but why are you people pretending that he’s some sort of physique-god? [quote], how about you post the picture of him flexing after his win? [/quote] I posted one of the first recent pictures that came up in a google search. Watch your blood pressure…
Even in that flexing pic, he does not look any bigger. He is simply lean and flexing. Men’s health cover models are pretty much the same (though you get smaller and bigger ones, I guess I have to point that out before you go on a rampage again)… And neither they nor he look big in clothes… Because they aren’t. They look good naked. There. lean 16 or even 17 inch arms do not equal bodybuilder for a guy his height. [quote]
Or better yet lets post the pictures of off season bodybuilders sitting down hunched over and see if they look like anything but fat asses. [/quote] What exactly warranted this comment? [quote]
Herschel is 225 6’1 with clearly visible abs how about you post some pictures of a legit natural competition next to his pictures and see how far off he looks from a bodybuilder.
I swear denying this guys physique is clearly showing how delusional aspiring bodybuilders are on here.[/quote]
“denying his physique”?
I’ve never been able to figure out whether you were a troll or a legitimate poster…[/quote] If a troll is a person who lives in the real world with different kinds of people, and where steriods have an effect, and sees 225lb 10% body fat dudes and thinks they had to lift weights alot and hard to get that way then please call me a troll. [quote]
You are not only putting words in people’s mouths, you are lashing out at anything you don’t like. What the hell do off-season bodybuilders have to do with this? Who’s “denying his physique?” ? [/quote]
Lashing out at anything I don’t like? or is it that the bodybuilders are so sensative that they walk around like anyone that competes is a god at all times and always look perfect inseason or out… The point of the fat asses comment was not to put them down, but that the right picture can make anyone look bad or different, and that picture of Herschel would be the equivelant of me posting the picture of Lee Preist eating KFC and saying anyone can be a fat ass like that. If you think he looked wonderful in that pic than so be it, but he looked fat to most people and they would not think he’s a bodybuilder.
The point of my original post was a dissapointment in you using that picture as an assessment of Hershel Walker. If you had posted a better picture and said you still think he’s small I would still disagree but so be it. But for somebody who proclaims themselves to be a fan of bodybuilding I would expect them to have a better eye for aesthetics, illusion and how to look at a picture.
Now you’ve gone off the deep end and I choose not to debate this topic with you, because as I said in my original post it is stupid to debate physique with people who want to act like there’s no difference btw roids and no roids. Now before you accuse me of putting more words in your mouth, YOU’re the one who decided to imply that Dorian Yates physique is easily attainable in a thread for someone who is lifetime natural. Brilliant use someone who used roids for a major part of his life in a discussion about lifetime natural people.
And yeah he fought a scrub…but it’s great to see a true athlete that challenges himself…especially at an age when a lot of former NFL players can barely get out of bed and need hoverounds(especially running backs). [/quote]
His physique in this pic looks like Apollo Creed(Carl Weathers). His shins look like he has been deadlifting.
[/quote]
Those shins could also be from Muay Thai training. My instructor used have us shin kick logs. Or it could be from deadlifting… Just sayin’
[/quote]
Maybe those shins could be from years of playing football as a running back??? Come on people.
Sidenote: No reputable(or of sound mind) muay thai instructor is going to have students kicking logs…unless you’re talking about banana tree logs…lol. Just sayin’
I think you’re underestimating how small some people start out. I was 5’9" and barely 130lbs. My arms were an awe-inspiring 11". I’m about 180 with 16’s now. I’ve been as high as 190+ with 17’s, but I’m trying to get my speed and hops back so I’ve shifted into other things. Genetics are obviously ones tump card. Mine have always been towards jumping. I was dunking before that 5’9" 130, but it took me almost 7 years to gain 50lbs. Some people have made damn near double those gains. You’ve got to work with what you’ve been given, but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.
[/quote]
Good for you. You don’t have great genetics for this. I was 150lbs when I started with 15" flexed arms. I had no idea that people with lesser genetics got this pissed that people aren’t on the same level they are.
[/quote]
There seems to be some misunderstanding going on. I’m not pissed about anything. I figured out a long time ago I don’t have the genetics, muscle structure [tendon length, insertion points,etc], or the discipline to be HUGE. I’m really ok with that. What I’m saying is this dude is 6’1", 225 with what appears to be about 7-8% bf. He looks pretty damn good. I’ve already said he doesn’t look like he should be standing on a stage and he clearly has some physique flaws from an aesthetic standpoint. But, saying his physique isn’t impressive or that anyone with decent genetics can look like that after a couple of years of solid training is a little silly.[/quote]
I’m not getting in the middle of whatever disagreement you have.
But no one said his physique isn’t impressive. He’s just not big.
Not only COULD his level of musculature be achieved in a few years. It SHOULD be achieved. 6’1 220 is NOT big (I’m going by the numbers Ive seen in the thread). He has full shoulders and deep tendon attachemetns around his biceps. It doesn’t make him big. It just makes him look better than guys with shittier aesthetics.
[/quote]
WhiteFlash,
As was stated earlier, if you are extremely focused, dedicated, and disciplined, you would be absolutely amazed at what the human body is capable of. I can personally attest to that. You should give it a try before putting limits on yourself and others. Genetics or otherwise.[/quote]
LOL. You don’t understand this audience yet. They will cry “steroids genetics!!” at anyone who does better than them as if THAT is why and not the fact that their entire approach may be off.
The people you are going up against in some way ENJOY being lesser yet degrading everyone who is seen as doing any better.
That is why they try their hardest to act like I’m obese as if any progress made is irrelevant until I am less than 6% body fat.[/quote]
Fellas, I’m fine with my genetics. I can dunk a basketball from a standstill, run the 40 in about 4.5 and have been getting pussy based solely on my looks for a long time. I’m truly ok. I never put limitations on my self, and always strive to be better. But, I do understand what my strengths and weaknesses are. That’s not to say I don’t try to make my weaknesses less so, just saying I know where I stand.[/quote]
That’s all good. I know where I stand as well…yet you have to admit to trying to claim otherwise.
Walker is 6 foot 1. He weighed about 215lbs at weigh in…which is NOT that damned impressive by the standards of serious weight lifters even though his SHAPE and LEANNESS is and that is due to genetics and his own truly hard work.[/quote]
I was basing my initial comments on the [apperantly photoshopped] weigh in pic. And yes, 215 at 6’1 isn’t huge, but he carries it differently than that number alone would imply. And Prof, I never implied or claimed that. Think there was some miscommunication going on.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
CC, big mistake here:
I’m talking about non-bodybuilding athletes. Like Prof.X did.
[/quote] My bad. If I missed that part, I am truly sorry.
I don’t really want to argue about this crap, so if your intention is as you said, then ok.
However:
Why bring off-season bodybuilders (in a derogatory way) and natty bodybuilders up?
I quote:
“Or better yet lets post the pictures of off season bodybuilders sitting down hunched over and see if they look like anything but fat asses.”
"
Herschel is 225 6’1 with clearly visible abs how about you post some pictures of a legit natural competition next to his pictures and see how far off he looks from a bodybuilder."
You have to admit that this creates the impression that you were not talking about athletes only?
EDIT: Okay, forget about that particular part, that was Airtruth who posted those lines… Sorry about that. This discussion is moving too fast for me
Plus the Dorian thing… But we’ve been over that.
The quotes are taking from your comment on my post… Where I quoted Airtruth (who was going off the photoshopped picture and going on about drug free bodybuilders as well)… And where I posted a non-shopped pic of Hershel. This discussion sure got complicated, especially since nobody in here denied that Hershel looks great for his age and all that.
[quote]
The only non-bodybuilding athletes I ever encountered in my life, who came close or could top Herschel’s physique, were lifting dilligently, (and were juicing) - that includes quite some pro-athletes.
Herschel got his body seemingly en passent. Which is pretty ridculous. [/quote] Well, he is black… Not to open that can of worms, but that really is not that exceptional for active black guys… Comparing white German athletes who probably don’t even do much in the way of pullups, chins, pushups, overhead pushups etc to him?
[quote]
And which is, according to Prof.X, the norm to happen even without iron, cause all you need to do is play some basketball. [/quote] This is what he said:
“I’m not quite sure what you are getting at…but I swear if I drove to South Houston or 3rd Ward when it warms up, you could find 50 brothers that size and bigger who don’t do shit but play basketball all day.”
Emphasis mine. He did not mention any skinny white kids.
There. That does change things in my book… Most active African American’s I’ve personally known or come across (not a whole lot, of course, but still quite a few… And yes, on the local basketball/volleyball field… Whenever my friends managed to drag me there back in my teens haha) were rather lean, visible abs, and muscular compared to us white kids, and neither group did any real lifting as far as I know.
There was only one white kid who clearly had good (or at least better than ours) genetics… All he did were pushups, bodyweight squats and chinups, and some concentration curls with a 12Kg DB (so the only one who did any “lifting”) back then I thought he was huge (I simply had no frame of reference, and he was lean which, as mentioned before, easily confounds people who don’t have much experience in these matters, and he had very round bicep bellies)…
That one kid was a bit thicker in the arms (biceps anyway, had zero tris when I think about it), had good shoulder structure (square and broad, it took me quite some time to achieve a similar effect, and I needed way bigger shoulders than he had to get the same effect) compared to those black guys we played with/against. They only did bodyweight stuff (or nothing), but on average they totally blew all of us away (except for that one guy, who wasn’t as lean as them though…
He, it should be mentioned, also ate a lot of meat… Big difference compared to the rest of us… So his genetics really only showed in his muscle-shape and bone-structure, his greater size was due to his training and diet). We were all fairly average in height (both blacks and whites).
The thick white kid my best pal back then, and I was the narrowest guy at school… Previously had no idea you could actually do something to change that
So I immediately started doing what he did (chinups, pushups, bw squats, conc. curls with that 12Kg DB) but of course didn’t eat like he did and never got anywhere until I started training and eating properly at 20…
Here I completely disagree.
More of a matter of drive, discipline, having the right routine and diet.
Genetics play a big role, but even a perfectly average guy should manage this fairly quickly with the right guidance (that last part being very important though).
That being said, most people who lift weights don’t meet those requirements… I guess if drive etc are a genetic trait, then you may be right…
Ok…wow…this went off the deep end. SO what exactly is being argued here? Herschel looks great at 47 years old…DEPENDING on what context you apply that to. Is he huge? NO. Is he muscular? YES. He’s an athlete not a bodybuilder.
And I must note that at his age…and the volume of training for MMA…he’s not going to have much room to recover from weight training to begin with. There are plenty of “in shape” looking MMA fighters who rarely if ever touch weights. You can have a physique like Herschel without touching weights. Think about guys in prison who look like Herschel…and have NO ACCESS to weights(who train similar to Herschel’s 1000 situp/pushup regiment).
The current mind-state of strength/physique training community is spoiled and accustomed to thinking that a physique like Herschel…HAS to come from weights. This is a discussion that genetics can be included in as well.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I started out at about 130 at 5’9 with 11" arms. I’m 28 now. Oh, of course I did things wrong, probably more than most. But, I’m not ashamed of my progress. I lift to be bigger/stronger/faster. I could honestly give a shit about aesthetics and proportions.[/quote]
As I said, I didn’t mean to insult you or anything.
It’s just that, given your goals and, as you admit, the fact that you did some things wrong, you aren’t necessarily in the position to say things such as “but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.” ← well I say it isn’t, provided that these guys have someone experienced to guide them, it’s their goal they and approach the whole thing the way smalltobig did. Genetics should not be much of an obstacle here yet, unless you have some muscle-wasting disease or something.
I started lifting a little over a 1.5 yrs ago. I’ve put on 25lbs, lost bodyfat and increased my lifts to respectable weight.
Do I have Hawt Abz - no but only because its not in the plan. Do people think I take steroids. Yeah but I’m nothing special in my mind. Goes back to a quote I’ve said before: “Everybody want to be a bodybuilder but don’t nobody want to lift no heavy azz weight - RC”
I’m sad to see America become a country of lazy, blame the world, no ownership for their own success people.
I’m going off a photoshopped picture? are you for real? are you lost? THat picture is straight from the video of the fight. Are you saying somebody sat and photoshopped the entire fight to make Herschel look bigger? But wait how is it photoshopped if he doesn’t even look big? Are you saying they photoshopped him to look small?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I started out at about 130 at 5’9 with 11" arms. I’m 28 now. Oh, of course I did things wrong, probably more than most. But, I’m not ashamed of my progress. I lift to be bigger/stronger/faster. I could honestly give a shit about aesthetics and proportions.[/quote]
As I said, I didn’t mean to insult you or anything.
It’s just that, given your goals and, as you admit, the fact that you did some things wrong, you aren’t necessarily in the position to say things such as “but to say that most people can have that level of muscle WHILE being that lean [guessing 8% +/- ] after 2 years is a bit presumptuous.” ← well I say it isn’t, provided that these guys have someone experienced to guide them, it’s their goal they and approach the whole thing the way smalltobig did. Genetics should not be much of an obstacle here yet, unless you have some muscle-wasting disease or something.
That’s all I’m saying…
[/quote]
Fair point. I never got the vibe you were personally attacking me man, but thanks for clarifying anyway.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I don’t think it’s just Herschel Walker who ends up in great shape from just push-ups, situps and pull ups. Many people have had a physique change during boot camp, and that’s only 6 weeks. If you imagine a lifetime of intense training, no alcohol, and not eating like shit even with decent genetics alot of people would look close to that in a picture.
Without knowing his history I would definitely think he spends some time in the gym at least 3-4 days a week. Arguing with someone heavy into bodybuilding over whether he looks like he lifts is pretty stupid unless a relative line is drawn on what effects steroids would have. After all comparing him to most lifetime “natural” bodybuilding competitions, herschel is same size or bigger with relatively close bodyfat levels outside of the 2week competition window, and overall thigh shape. The only difference would be him lifting for aesthetic purposes which would mean probably adding some bicep/shoulder work and building a better vtaper. [/quote]
Are you serious, your a fan of bodybuilding and you put that up? Considering all the lighting and camera angles making people look all kinds of sizes to post a picture of him in a not fitted Top Out Shirt as a sign of a small guy? The guys arms look borderline 13 inches in that shirt. It’s clear as day he’s not THAT small [/quote] Ok. It is clear that he is not as small as he looks in an actual recent picture of himself. Yes, that makes perfect sense… What? And who said he looked small? Those were your words, not mine. I was simply amazed that you and others go on about how crazy and near-unattainable his physique is.
What exactly is your problem? He looks great for his age and all, but why are you people pretending that he’s some sort of physique-god? [quote], how about you post the picture of him flexing after his win? [/quote] I posted one of the first recent pictures that came up in a google search. Watch your blood pressure…
Even in that flexing pic, he does not look any bigger. He is simply lean and flexing. Men’s health cover models are pretty much the same (though you get smaller and bigger ones, I guess I have to point that out before you go on a rampage again)… And neither they nor he look big in clothes… Because they aren’t. They look good naked. There. lean 16 or even 17 inch arms do not equal bodybuilder for a guy his height. [quote]
Or better yet lets post the pictures of off season bodybuilders sitting down hunched over and see if they look like anything but fat asses. [/quote] What exactly warranted this comment? [quote]
Herschel is 225 6’1 with clearly visible abs how about you post some pictures of a legit natural competition next to his pictures and see how far off he looks from a bodybuilder.
I swear denying this guys physique is clearly showing how delusional aspiring bodybuilders are on here.[/quote]
“denying his physique”?
I’ve never been able to figure out whether you were a troll or a legitimate poster…[/quote] If a troll is a person who lives in the real world with different kinds of people, and where steriods have an effect, and sees 225lb 10% body fat dudes and thinks they had to lift weights alot and hard to get that way then please call me a troll. [quote]
Lashing out at anything I don’t like? or is it that the bodybuilders are so sensative that they walk around like anyone that competes is a god at all times and always look perfect inseason or out[/quote] [/quote] Where are you getting this from? Where? Who here ever said that? [quote] [quote]… The point of the fat asses comment was not to put them down, but that the right picture can make anyone look bad or different[/quote], and that picture of Herschel would be the equivelant of me posting the picture of Lee Preist eating KFC and saying anyone can be a fat ass like that. If you think he looked wonderful in that pic than so be it, but he looked fat to most people and they would not think he’s a bodybuilder.
[/quote] Really? The 20+ inch arms on a 5’4 or so guy are not a dead give-away? the shoulders?
Hershel is not even large when wearing something skin-tight, as shown below.[quote]
The point of my original post was a dissapointment in you using that picture as an assessment of Hershel Walker. If you had posted a better picture and said you still think he’s small I would still disagree but so be it. But for somebody who proclaims themselves to be a fan of bodybuilding I would expect them to have a better eye for aesthetics, illusion and how to look at a picture.
[/quote]
I can judge a person’s size from a picture of them in a t-shirt just fine. And I have viewed about 10-15 different pics of him, bare upper body and clothed.
Your real problem here is that without being able to see his leanness and well-developed midsection thanks to the shirt, it becomes clear that he is indeed far from big.
Again, his usual “shoulders rounded to the max” pose, which shows off the traps. Still small. Still lean. And still you must be seeing something completely different compared to what I’m seeing?
[/quote]
Now you’ve gone off the deep end and I choose not to debate this topic with you, because as I said in my original post it is stupid to debate physique with people who want to act like there’s no difference btw roids and no roids. Now before you accuse me of putting more words in your mouth, YOU’re the one who decided to imply that Dorian Yates physique is easily attainable in a thread for someone who is lifetime natural. Brilliant use someone who used roids for a major part of his life in a discussion about lifetime natural people.
[/quote]
Yes, his current physique is entirely attainable natural! That’s because he’s decided to lose so much weight in the last few years that he’s well within the drug-free-attainable range now!
What exactly is your problem with this?
Why bring steroids into this discussion in the first place?
“In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”
You seem to fit the bill just fine right now… Your arguments make absolutely no sense and you’re focusing on certain points just to be able to argue about something.
I’m going off a photoshopped picture? are you for real? are you lost? THat picture is straight from the video of the fight. Are you saying somebody sat and photoshopped the entire fight to make Herschel look bigger? But wait how is it photoshopped if he doesn’t even look big? Are you saying they photoshopped him to look small?[/quote]
Again, you are simply trying to keep the argument going. You posted the picture taken from the fight in your second comment, not the first (which was the one I originally quoted and commented upon).
Here is a quote for you:
As you can see, no post-win picture in your post there. I posted the t-shirt one in response.
The picture most were commenting on at that time was the photoshopped weigh-in one. And that is the only one (if taken seriously) which could have provoked a response like yours.
You added the non-shopped one in response to my comment on your first post. And as I have said before, in that post-win picture, he is still not large at all. He is lean and doing a crab MM. That’s all there is to him. He has good size for someone only doing bodyweight stuff. He is nothing special size-wise when it comes to serious natural bodybuilders. You can claim whatever the hell you want, you ARE trolling here.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Sorry C_C i didn’t realize it’s derrogatory to say somebody uses steriods, I guess it’s like calling a fat person fat.[/quote]
What?
Do you have to bring up steroids in every other sentence you churn out?
And your idea of fat is probably different from mine if you are calling off-season bodybuilders fat.
Priest did one (1) photoshoot where he had a serious belly and could be called “fat”. That was what the photographers wanted. Usually, most bodybuilders, even in the heaviest weight-classes, simply look smooth in the off-season… Do you want to argue about this as well now?
