help with my bulk

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Okay, ive been going insane for the past two weeks trying to determine a diet which will give me some good gains in strength and mass, and ive altered the ‘get big for bodybuilders’ diet in the faq.
My weight is 155 and i just wanna bulk because i think my ‘noob’ gains are coming to an end, ive been lifting for around 5 months 5 days a week.

Diet

meal 1
2 eggs
1 cup cooked oatmeal (quaker instant oatmeal package)
1/4 cup rasins (mixed in oatmeal)
tsp flax
1/2 cup blueberries (mixed in oatmeal)

meal 2
2 skinless boneless chicken breasts
apple
banana

meal 3
1 extra lean ground beef patty
broccoli
1 cup bluberries
1oz almonds

meal 4 (immediately pwo)
2 scoops whey
50g dextrose

meal 5 (90 min PWO)
2 scoops whey
50g dextrose

meal 6
1 cup plain yogurt
1/2 cup rasins
1 oz mixed nuts
1 cup berries

totals (approx)
cals: 2931 fat: 105 carbs: 350 protein: 229

Now this is my final attempt at making a diet that is actually good, i have literally been trying to make a good bulking diet for two weeks and am very frustrated. Please help me out if this is bad, although i think it looks pretty good to me.
THANKS

2

First things first, make the breakfast bigger and get real oats instead of that instant packet crap.

Breakfast should be a fairly large meal, at least up near your largest if not largest of day.

Just add a lot more eggs to that breakfast and real oats.

3

Hey Bro,
2 weeks!!! 2 weeks!!! Shoot…I have been training for a long time and I am STILL “tweaking” my diet. It take patience my man. Results don’t come at the drop of a hat.

After quick glance…it seems to me you aren’t taking FULL advantage of your post workout nutrition. Where are the whole foods? The whey and dextrose are fine (ever think about investing in some Surge BTW??)…but this is the time where you really want to spike your insulin. I wouldn’t wait 90 minutes for my 1st PWO meal…I tend to stuff my grill anywheres from 45-60 minutes afterwards and I don’t mess around. Your 1st meal post-training should be your largest meal of the day (especially if you are trying to add mass). Personally I am getting around 2:1 (carbs:protein) ratio with this meal. Yams, Smart Start cereal, cottage cheese, chicken, flax bread, etc. And I am even thinking about going to to a 3:1 ratio.

On a second glance…you seem to be combining F+C in a few meals. For instance…Meal #1 I would nix the flax. Also I would stay with P+F meals leading up to training. So meal #2…I would nix the fruit and add your flax or fish oil here along with some fibrous veggies.

And then you combine F+C in your last meal (mixed nuts).

Why all the fruit by the way? I know many people on the forum (Nate Dogg, Timbo, Me) recommend limiting your daily fruit intake to 2-3 servings per day.

Read Massive Eating by JB to get a better idea on meal combinations and why you should seperate your carbs and fat.

You are on the right track my man. Just need to do a little “tweaking” is all. Again, it takes patience. Good luck…Tony G

PS…sorry for the inadequate replay. I caught this post at a glance and was in a hurry. Had to respond to it though, albeit I didn’t get too in depth. I’m sure someone else will come along and make some suggestions. Hope all of this helps!

4

Hi, Macoeric. Actually, it does look pretty good. It’s obvious you’ve been doing your homework.

Regarding PWO nutrition, I’d like to see you take in ONE liquid Surge-type drink, and the next whole-food meal should be high in starchy carbs; i.e., brown rice, oatmeal, sweet potatoes. That way you’ll get the biggest bulking bang for your buck.

Carbs may be a bit high. Based on your TBW, I’d like to see you start off around 240g per day, divided roughly into 3 P+C meals. If you don’t gain weight on that number after two weeks, I’d start raising it. But the trick to bulking and NOT putting on fat (or putting on as little as possible) is to take in quality carbs, the right TYPE of carbs and TIME your carb intake for when your body needs the carbs to grow muscle.

Protein requirements are based on TBW. You should be taking in 240g per day, 40g per meal, each and every meal.

Both protein and carb numbers are based on your TBW x 1.5g.

In general, save nuts for P+F meals.

I see you like fruit, but I would recommend that you take in fruit at the two times a day your body is best able to process them and least likely to convert them to triglyceride and store them as subcutaneous fat. That would be at breakfast when liver glycogen stores are low and the solid-food PWO meal.

I love fruit. It’s full of vitamins and minerals and phytonutrients. It has all sorts of health benefits. However, fruit is high in fructose, a type of sugar that can only be processed in the liver. If liver glycogen stores are full (normally the case, except for the times I listed above), fructose is converted to triglyceride and stored as subcutaneous fat.

Bottom line, eat your fruit, but pick the TIMES you eat your fruit.

Fat intake should be about .5g per pound of LBM. So ideally, you should be eating 3 P+F meals and 3 P+C meals. Your fat allotment for the day should be equally divided among the 3 P+F meals. Fat in a P+C meal should be kept to <5g. Carbs in a P+F meal should be kept to <10g.

One last thing I would recommend. If you wake up in the middle of the night to hit the restroom, chug down a protein shake (with or without some flaxseed oil; your call). Pre-made, of course.

You’re doing great, Macoeric. It’s slow and painful in the beginning, I know, but it does get easier. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

5

(im not sure my last post was entered so im gonna post it again, sorry if it was)

alright first off thanks for the info guys and ive been tweaking my diet and researching all day so here goes:

CALS/FAT/CARB/PROTEIN

meal 1: (P+F+C!?)538/23/45/38
3 eggs, 4 egg whites
1 cup slow-cooked oatmeal
1/2 cup blueberries

meal 2 (P+F) : 614/50/5/39
1 extra lean ground beef patty
tsp flax
1oz almonds

meal 3(immediate. PWO,P+C):340/3/70/42
2 scoops whey
50g dextrose

meal 4 P+C: 630/6/55/70
1 large skinless boneless chicken breast
1 cup broccoli
1 cup brown rice
(should i add more carbs in this meal?)

meal 5 P+C: 500/6/31/65
1 large skinless boneless chicken breast
2 slices whole wheat bread

meal 6
i was stuck here for today, i CANT eat cottage cheese, i cannot manage to get it down, so i chugges a shake.

-2 scoops whey

totals
cals: 2922
fat: 89
protein: 280
carbs: 210

Now for meal 1, i seem to be mixing C+F, so should i take out the whole eggs and just make more egg whites? or does it matter?
Also i seem to have only one P+F meal, should i make more of these?
Also for meal 6 im stuck on ideas, i was thinking of maybe some eggs, turkey bacon, another tsp of flax and some wheat?
Well please give me some more input you guys have been great sofar, please inform me of any meals that should be dropped/altered.
thanks!

6

Macoeric, I’m having a bit of a problem with your numbers. Do you have a nutritional desk reference? If not, you need to invest in one. I can see why you’re getting confused, because after looking at the breakdown you provided, I’m TOTALLY confused.

Example: It looks like you’re listing your macronutrients in kCal/P/C/F order. If that’s the case, in Meal 1 you say you took in 38g of fat. Eggs don’t have that much fat in them.

I can’t tell whether tsp (Meal 2) means teaspoon or tablespoon. I’m guessing that you mean tablespoon because a teaspoon is only about 5g of fat.

Meal 4, I just can’t figure out the numbers because you’re not following P/C/F order.

Macoeric, I’d be glad to help, as would others, but in all fairness to those who are giving of their time, could you be a little more precise with your numbers so that we don’t have to guess and try and figure out what you REALLY mean?

7

i am following CALS/FAT/CARB/PROTEIN
which i found out at fitday, so i guess the numbers arent 100% accurate. And my flax oil has 14 grams of fat per teaspoon.
sorry bout the confusion, so how do my meals look?

8

your nutrient breakdown for breakfast has to be wrong. check that out.

also…

veggies!!!
alot!
where are they?

I would swallow some cottage cheese pre-sleep and maybe during, also.

9

Okay, M, I gotcha. It’s looking better and better.

It would be better on meals 5 and 6 to lower protein to what you need (40g). It would be better to take the excess protein and move it to another (additional) meal. That midnight snack I recommended, maybe?

First meal is a P+C+F meal, yes. I know people think of eggs as breakfast food, but I sometimes have them in the middle of the day and have tuna and fish oil for breakfast. Okay, I’m weird, but I eat oatmeal in the evening, too; PWO. In other words, eat anything you want, no matter what time of day, if it helps you achieve your goals.

But re how to fix Meal 1, you could add protein powder to your oatmeal or have a breakfast steak (lean). Eggs are better to save for a P+F meal because of their higher fat content.

Meal 2’s numbers (fat) have got to be off. Some sources list 1T of flaxseed oil as 14g, some as 15. Doesn’t matter that much. Point is that 1 ounce of almonds and 1T of flaxseed oil are about 30g right there.

Good choices on Meal 2, though. Great P+F meal.

You tightened up your liquid PWO meal nicely! And the meal after, too. Re the carbs in Meal 4, since you’re bulking and since your choices are SO darn good, I’d say that you can eat all of the green veggie and brown rice carbs you can stuff in your face. Your stomach will be the limiting factor. No reason to control yourself. PWO, just as a point of clarification, though, means weight-bearing exercies, not an evening session of cardio.

I think you’re off on your protein numbers on Meal 5.

I’m kinda inclined to follow something like this,

Meal 1 P+F
Meal 2 P+F
Workout
Meal 3 P+C
Meal 4 P+C
Meal 5 P+C
Meal 6 P+F
P+F Midnight Feeding (Extra/Optional); protein powder + flaxseed oil

The following plan would keep you in a fat burning mode (not a bad thing, even when bulking) the first part of the day, with carbs being taken in PWO (an IDEAL time, great for building muscle). You would end your day with a P+F meal before bed, good for not spiking insulin.

The only other thing I might recommend is:

Meal 1 P+C
Meal 2 P+F
Workout
Meal 3 P+C
Meal 4 P+C
Meal 5 P+F
Meal 6 P+F
P+F Midnight Feeding (Extra/Optional); protein powder + flaxseed oil

Meal 6 ideas? Anything that’s P+F:

tuna fish & mayo
tuna fish & fish oil (or flaxseed oil)
hamburger patty w/ mayo + 1T of salsa
turkey w/ 2 cups lettuce & Walden Farms Dressing (No calories, no carbs, no fat!!!)
Shrimp cooked in olive oil w/ garlic

Lots of choices!!!

10

firstly tampa man, seriously thanks for all of your input and hopefully this time i got it right.
im gonna follow your suggestion and use your first lineup of meals:
Meal 1 P+F
Meal 2 P+F
Workout
Meal 3 P+C
Meal 4 P+C
Meal 5 P+C
Meal 6 P+F

once again the breakdown goes CALS/FAT/CARBS/PROTEIN

Diet

Meal 1 P+F
559/38/8/43
3 eggs, 4 egg whites
2 tsp natty pb

Meal 2 P+F
614/30/5/39
1 extra lean ground beef patty
teaspoon flax
1oz almonds

Meal 3 (immediate PWO) P+C
340/3/70/42
2 scoops whey
50g dextrose

Meal 4 P+C
717/10/81/71
1 large skinless boneless chicken breast
2 large broccoli stems
1/2 cup brown rice (measured dry)

Meal 5 P+C
527/9/75/64
1 large skinless boneless chicken breast
2 slices whole wheat bread
1 cup oatmeal
1/2 cup bluberries

Meal 6 P+F
445/32/0/32
1 extra lean ground beef patty
teaspoon flax

totals (im sure not 100% accurate…)
CALS: 3202
FAT: 122
CARBS: 239
PROTEIN: 291

Alright, i think i might almost have it now, thanks alot for your help, especially tampa.

also glute suggested more veggies? besides the broccoli i already have, which other veggies should i add, and to what meal(s)?

once again thanks for you time and patience

11

Macoeric, you’re definitely a quick study. Your diet is starting to look downright professional/hardcore, there! (grin)

One other type of carb we should talk about; starchy carbs. Quality starchy carbs are brown rice, sweet potatoes/yams, oatmeal (I like steel cut oats because they’re chewy instead of mushy). Eventually you’re going to get tired of green veggie carbs and need some tasty variations. The BEST time (from an anabolic standpoint) to take in starchy carbs is in the whole-food P+C meal that follows your liquid P+C meal. Make that one meal “special.”

And if you ARE going to take in fruit, take it in the same meal you’re eating your starchy carbs. After working out or after cardio, liver glycogen is going to be depleted to some degree. Since the fructose in fruit is processed in the liver, PWO or post-cardio is the IDEAL time to take in your fruit.

BTW, wheat bread is more of a starchy carb, so I’d probably move it to the starchy carb meal PWO.

(Am I driving you crazy yet? (grin))

Remember if you’re following JB’s P+F and P+C food combining, you are allowed 5g of fat in a P+C meal and 10g of carbs in a P+F meal. That will allow you a little more dietary freedom while still honoring the food combining principles.

Green veggies? Try asparagus, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, onions, peppers, yellow squash, zucchini, lettuce, cabbage, kale, collards, mustard greens.

Remember when it comes to veggies in a P+F meal, you can have up to 10g of active carbs (Total Carb grams minus Fiber grams = Active Carb grams).

Remember to use Active Carb grams in Meal 4, too. Two broccoli stems are almost NO carbs. I think I calculated one time that you have to eat 2 pounds of raw broccoli to get 25g of active carbs.

Actually, even as it was presented last, your diet looks AWESOME.

Once you’ve decided on your numbers, you need to stick with those numbers and follow your plan no matter what the scale says for 2 to 3 weeks. Your body needs that long to adjust to new eating patterns. At the two or three-week point, if the scale isn’t going up a half pound or so a week, I’d increase calories by 200 or 250 calories per day. And I would put most of those calories into quality carbs.

You’re set to go, there, Macoeric. Let me know how it goes.

12

A) Tampa’s a girl, dude.

B) Be willing to experiment with that first meal being P+C instead of P+F. Try it the way you have it, first, for two weeks, and track bodyfat% and weight as well as intangibles such as energy level, etc. Then switch to the P+C for two weeks and see if you notice a difference.

Dan

13

IMO, besides the two meals straight after the workout, all meals should contain vegetables. they offer some neat benefits such as improved recovery and cognition, (besides being good for your heart, liver, kidney, etc)

best vegetables:
lettuce
cabbage
grean leaves
brocoly
sprouts
tomato
cucumber
onion
garlic
peppers (all kinds)
zuchini
radish

and probably I forgot some.

throw a small salad to all your P+F meals - it complements them nicely and you can add some olive oil in.