Help Selecting Proper Beginner Routine

Training
21

[quote]rebelangler wrote:
I’ve been working out for about a year now and like 99% of all new guys in the gym I spent the majority of my time “majoring in the minors.” Doing a lof of pointless isolation work and neglecting to workout my legs like I should. I also have yet to find a workout routine that I’ve stuck to. Everything I’ve done thus far has basically been a waste of time. I’ve put on only about 15lbs in my first year of training and that’s mostly been due to my efforts in trying to eat more.

All of this being said, I know what I’ve been doing has been wrong and as I mentioned before, pointless. However, part of my reasoning behind my “methods” of training have been because I have bad imbalances. From the time I could walk until I graduated high school I played baseball like it was a fulltime job. I was a pitcher with prospects of playing in college. After years and years of throwing bullpens, my left arm has become incredibly more dominant than my right. Now before everyone jumps me saying that everybody has a dominant side and imbalances, my arms and even chest are noticeably different in size, especially when I’m wearing a t-shirt.

My whole left arm including; bicep, tricep, and shoulder are larger and stronger than my right causing my chest to also become imbalanced. This is due to when working out my chest my secondary muscles can’t keep up. So just to be clear… left arm is stronger so it does the work leaving my left pec weak, right arm is weak and unable to handle the weight creating a stronger and larger right pec.

I tried using the isolation exercises to improve and balance out my arms and chest. However, I’ve had little to no success. I’ve done a ton of reading and research on the subject of fixing imbalances and have about given up. There’s just so much information on it ranging from; “it’ll fix itself, you haven’t been working out long enough, do dumbbell work, only lift what you can with the weak side on the strong side, do isolation exercises, etc. etc. etc.” I’ve tried nearly everything I’ve found and have pretty much given up on it.

So back to the original point to the post. I’m looking for advice on a routine that has proven to give results for what I consider myself a “beginner.” I’d like a legitimate weekly plan for adding a solid foundation for lifting and building strength. I’m 6’ 145lbs. and 24 years old.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but wanted to give as much information as possible on my athletic and training history. Hopefully the things I’ve mentioned will help with selecting the right routine for me.

Thanks in advance![/quote]

You have to understand that what you are asking here is a lot. It requires a very detailed answer and instead you’re getting answers like do Starting Strength, Greyskull, 5/3/1 or whatever the other program these guys have heard of is (That is the answer to any question on this forum by the way. It’s like there are only 4 programs in existence and 5/3/1 can cure cancer).
None of it is specific to you.

You have imbalances and Starting Strength is an imbalanced program that focuses on numbers on the powerlifts. If you want to be a powerlifter it’s a good program to start on. Lots of powerlifters started out on something similar to this. They then had to fix their imbalances.
It’s pretty obvious just by the lack of trap, lats, arm, abs and calf work involved.

I get the feeling you don’t care to much about being a competitive powerlifter. This is something to get sorted as goals need to be established.
Chasing numbers can lead to irrational thinking. Hell some people talk about how much they leg press or how much the can curl. Like who the hell really cares? Wait till some young guy tells you how much he can rope pushdown.

Anyway back to my point. I could help you if you were my client as I could assess you and work out an individual training plan for your needs. I would take you through the lifts and explain to you why you are doing them.
I would tell you not to focus on your imbalances so much. You are fixated on that one aspect but with a correctly balanced program we would work through that. I really can’t understand how you haven’t been training legs. Every single decent training program should include legs.

When we talk about balance it goes much further then that. We are referring to the ratio of pulling compared to pushing. Rear deltoid compared to front deltoid. Do you train different muscles of the back as afterall the back has many different muscles and should be treated as such? Is your horizontal pull significantly stronger then your horizontal push? If not we need to work on that.
Can you train back without being arm dominant? If not we’ll work on how to do this. Can you train pectorals using minimal front delts and triceps? If not we will work on this. Hamstrings compared to quads. Do you train both actions of hamstrings? If not do you know why you should? Do you train calfs at all? If not I would love to hear why not.

Then again you could just focus on the big 3 and see how that ends up. Good luck with that.

You’re 24 and the step you take next can determine how you will end up in 10 years time. Make a wise choice and save a lot of wasted years.

Having one side stronger then the other and having triceps and front deltoid take over form pectorals is another issue that will not get solved with programs such as Starting Strength. This will need to be a more specialised lifting program for you. You most likely wont get much pectoral stimulation from barbell bench pressing as you will use your dominate muscles. So why would this exercise be your main focus? Makes no sense.

So I guess I’m saying the best answer is to get a personal trainer to do what I’ve explained above. The downside is a lot of them wont have a clue what I’ve been talking about and wont put in the time needed.
the alternative is to do your own research but my experience is a lot of trainees get confused with all the information and have no idea how to filter what’s relevant.

22

[quote]Angus1 wrote:

You have to understand that what you are asking here is a lot. It requires a very detailed answer and instead you’re getting answers like do Starting Strength, Greyskull, 5/3/1 or whatever the other program these guys have heard of is (That is the answer to any question on this forum by the way. It’s like there are only 4 programs in existence and 5/3/1 can cure cancer).
None of it is specific to you.

You have imbalances and Starting Strength is an imbalanced program that focuses on numbers on the powerlifts. If you want to be a powerlifter it’s a good program to start on. Lots of powerlifters started out on something similar to this. They then had to fix their imbalances.
It’s pretty obvious just by the lack of trap, lats, arm, abs and calf work involved.

I get the feeling you don’t care to much about being a competitive powerlifter. This is something to get sorted as goals need to be established.
Chasing numbers can lead to irrational thinking. Hell some people talk about how much they leg press or how much the can curl. Like who the hell really cares? Wait till some young guy tells you how much he can rope pushdown.

Anyway back to my point. I could help you if you were my client as I could assess you and work out an individual training plan for your needs. I would take you through the lifts and explain to you why you are doing them.
I would tell you not to focus on your imbalances so much. You are fixated on that one aspect but with a correctly balanced program we would work through that. I really can’t understand how you haven’t been training legs. Every single decent training program should include legs.

When we talk about balance it goes much further then that. We are referring to the ratio of pulling compared to pushing. Rear deltoid compared to front deltoid. Do you train different muscles of the back as afterall the back has many different muscles and should be treated as such? Is your horizontal pull significantly stronger then your horizontal push? If not we need to work on that.
Can you train back without being arm dominant? If not we’ll work on how to do this. Can you train pectorals using minimal front delts and triceps? If not we will work on this. Hamstrings compared to quads. Do you train both actions of hamstrings? If not do you know why you should? Do you train calfs at all? If not I would love to hear why not.

Then again you could just focus on the big 3 and see how that ends up. Good luck with that.

You’re 24 and the step you take next can determine how you will end up in 10 years time. Make a wise choice and save a lot of wasted years.

Having one side stronger then the other and having triceps and front deltoid take over form pectorals is another issue that will not get solved with programs such as Starting Strength. This will need to be a more specialised lifting program for you. You most likely wont get much pectoral stimulation from barbell bench pressing as you will use your dominate muscles. So why would this exercise be your main focus? Makes no sense.

So I guess I’m saying the best answer is to get a personal trainer to do what I’ve explained above. The downside is a lot of them wont have a clue what I’ve been talking about and wont put in the time needed.
the alternative is to do your own research but my experience is a lot of trainees get confused with all the information and have no idea how to filter what’s relevant. [/quote]

Damn man wish I could hire you as a personal trainer. Everything you listed above makes perfect sense and couldn’t agree more. That’s been my concern with finding a program to start. Based on the information I’ve found regarding imbalances, these beginner/novice programs will most likely only make my imbalances worse.

i.e definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results

I’ve had 3 personal training sessions at my gym with 3 different male trainers. All of which seemed to have no real answer for how to handle my specific needs dealing with the imbalances and gaining size/strength.

I’m not longer and athlete, aside from playing on a city league softball team, so powerlifting for size with the intentions of using the strength for football/baseball is not necessary. This is why I’ve had such a difficult time finding a program I can stick to because none of them seem to be tailored to my specific/unique needs and goals.

That being said though, you’re the first person to really understand what I’ve been trying to get at about selecting the “proper” program for my individual needs.

Any other tips/advice would be greatly appreciated
thanks again man

23

You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.

24

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I do eat like a man. 5 meals daily with nutritious snacks in between. I have a 4 year degree in Nutrition and Management. I undersand the role nutrition plays in weight gain and strength training. I take it very seriously, meal preping a week in advance, and making sure I take in the proper healthy nutrients for putting on lean mass. My problem is my still incredibly fast metabolism. My doctor at one point basically told me it’s so fast I’m unable to get addicted to stimulants. I’ve dipped and smoked cigarets and dropped them both in a 24 hour period. Never looked back or had any cravings. Doctor said it was due to my off the cart metabolism rate.

Anyways, again the point to the OP was selecting a workout program. Not a nutrition program.
I can handle and figure out the eating on my own. What I need help with is selecting the proper beginner-notice regiment for me to begin.

thanks again yall

25

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I can handle and figure out the eating on my own.

Blah blah blah fast metabolism blah
[/quote]

I doubt it. You weigh 145lbs.

26

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.

[/quote]

Have you not had a friend, or met someone who eats a shit ton and doesn’t gain weight?

Comparing a man to a woman, and telling him to eat like a man… chill out bro.

27

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I do eat like a man. 5 meals daily with nutritious snacks in between. I have a 4 year degree in Nutrition and Management. I undersand the role nutrition plays in weight gain and strength training. I take it very seriously, meal preping a week in advance, and making sure I take in the proper healthy nutrients for putting on lean mass. My problem is my still incredibly fast metabolism. My doctor at one point basically told me it’s so fast I’m unable to get addicted to stimulants. I’ve dipped and smoked cigarets and dropped them both in a 24 hour period. Never looked back or had any cravings. Doctor said it was due to my off the cart metabolism rate.

Anyways, again the point to the OP was selecting a workout program. Not a nutrition program.
I can handle and figure out the eating on my own. What I need help with is selecting the proper beginner-notice regiment for me to begin.

thanks again yall[/quote]

What method did your doctor use to measure your metabolic rate?

28

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I can handle and figure out the eating on my own.

Blah blah blah fast metabolism blah
[/quote]

I doubt it. You weigh 145lbs.[/quote]

148.77lbs. Exactly.
I eat all day everyday to the point I feel nauseous. Not bullshit like pizza and hamburgers either. I enjoy cooking so I make wholesome nutrient dense foods enriched with the proper protein, carbs, oils, and calories. I’m no rookie to proper nutrition. Just the weight training that pairs with it.

Like I said. I don’t need advice on a proper nutrition.
Just a workout program to pair with it to build a solid foundation.

29

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I can handle and figure out the eating on my own.

Blah blah blah fast metabolism blah
[/quote]

I doubt it. You weigh 145lbs.[/quote]

148.77lbs. Exactly.
I eat all day everyday to the point I feel nauseous. Not bullshit like pizza and hamburgers either. I enjoy cooking so I make wholesome nutrient dense foods enriched with the proper protein, carbs, oils, and calories. I’m no rookie to proper nutrition. Just the weight training that pairs with it.

Like I said. I don’t need advice on a proper nutrition.
Just a workout program to pair with it to build a solid foundation.
[/quote]

Did you have a question about the various ones that have been suggested to you so far?

30

[quote]rebelangler wrote:
148.77lbs. Exactly.
I eat all day everyday to the point I feel nauseous. Not bullshit like pizza and hamburgers either. I enjoy cooking so I make wholesome nutrient dense foods enriched with the proper protein, carbs, oils, and calories. I’m no rookie to proper nutrition. Just the weight training that pairs with it.

Like I said. I don’t need advice on a proper nutrition.
Just a workout program to pair with it to build a solid foundation.
[/quote]

nutrient dense=/= calorie dense.

Track how much calories you eat. If you’re eating over 4k and you’re still not growing, then you probably have a point.

Otherwise, being 6ft and 148lb doesn’t seem right at all.

Oh, why bother writing 145lb on the OP but feel the need to point out your exact weight when someone just takes the facts you wrote and goes with it?

31

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]rebelangler wrote:

[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
You are 6’ tall and 145 lbs. Unless you are a woman, there is your problem.

Pick any of the various 5-rep schemes, many already named here, and eat like a man. In 6 months, you can start to worry about tackling your imbalances.
[/quote]

I can handle and figure out the eating on my own.

Blah blah blah fast metabolism blah
[/quote]

I doubt it. You weigh 145lbs.[/quote]

I don’t need advice on a proper nutrition.
[/quote]

But you weight exactly 148.77lbs.

32

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]rebelangler wrote:
148.77lbs. Exactly.
I eat all day everyday to the point I feel nauseous. Not bullshit like pizza and hamburgers either. I enjoy cooking so I make wholesome nutrient dense foods enriched with the proper protein, carbs, oils, and calories. I’m no rookie to proper nutrition. Just the weight training that pairs with it.

Like I said. I don’t need advice on a proper nutrition.
Just a workout program to pair with it to build a solid foundation.
[/quote]

nutrient dense=/= calorie dense.

Track how much calories you eat. If you’re eating over 4k and you’re still not growing, then you probably have a point. [/quote]

All it means is he has to eat 5k calories.

He does not seem to understand that it’s eating more that puts the weight on, not the program.

OP, go eat a burger.

33

Fast metabolism is the biggest horseshit cop out to be used today. It’s this simple, you burn so many calories a day…eat more than that. Who gives a shit if it is 2,000 or 4,000. Just do it.

Nobody gives a shit how fast your metabolism is, how many meals you eat a day, how “educated” you are in nutrition. Results are all that matters. Until you produce results, you don’t know anything about nutrition.

Let’s say you have a coach like Stu, pro bodybuilder and intelligent dietician(or whatever the hell you want to call him). Then you have a 140 pound doctor with plenty of education in nutrition. The guy who knows how to take that knowledge and turn it in to real world results is the person to give your attention.

I’ve yet to meet a single person, who wasn’t full of shit, that could say they had nutrition figured out. I guarantee people like Kai Greene are still learning things everyday about ways to improve.

Lastly, you can walk in the gym and only do the big 3 lifts and get big as hell(in comparison to your current self) if your nutrition is on point.

34

[quote]Jarvan wrote:

Have you not had a friend, or met someone who eats a shit ton and doesn’t gain weight?

Comparing a man to a woman, and telling him to eat like a man… chill out bro.
[/quote]

I wasn’t comparing him to a woman. The statement is that UNLESS he is a woman, 6’ tall and 145 BW is not good numbers if he wants to be strong. That comes BEFORE any choice of program even matters.

[quote]magick wrote:

Oh, why bother writing 145lb on the OP but feel the need to point out your exact weight when someone just takes the facts you wrote and goes with it?[/quote]

Same reason short guys tell you their height in 1/8" increments.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

All it means is he has to eat 5k calories.

He does not seem to understand that it’s eating more that puts the weight on, not the program.

OP, go eat a burger.[/quote]

THIS.

[quote]The-German wrote:
Fast metabolism is the biggest horseshit cop out to be used today. It’s this simple, you burn so many calories a day…eat more than that. Who gives a shit if it is 2,000 or 4,000. Just do it.

[/quote]

And THIS.

If 4k calories (with 200g protein minimum always) isn’t enough… eat 5k. If after a month it still ain’t getting the job done… eat 6k. I don’t care if you got to shove cake and milkshakes down your gullet.

“Fast” metabolism is not the roadblock. It is merely a factor to be dealt with.

Worrying about whether 5x5 is better than SS or should I go 5/3/1 or what about Greyskull etc etc? when you are skinny is a glaring misunderstanding of priorities.

And trust me when I say, even if some of us are surly around here- we want to see you get big and strong. We want ALL beginners to be helped so they can avoid the years of wasted time most of us (we were and are still n00bs in many regards) pissed away early in our lifting lives.

35

[quote]The-German wrote:
Until you produce results, you don’t know anything about nutrition.
[/quote]

I think it’s interesting to see this mentality so prevalent on this topic here, yet when it comes to lifting many times we witness beginners advising other beginners on how to get bigger and stronger. I wonder what promotes the difference in mentality.

36

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Until you produce results, you don’t know anything about nutrition.
[/quote]
I think it’s interesting to see this mentality so prevalent on this topic here, yet when it comes to lifting many times we witness beginners advising other beginners on how to get bigger and stronger. I wonder what promotes the difference in mentality.[/quote]
Honestly, I think it’s the lack of easily accessible “nutrition gurus” to paraphrase.

There are whole cults of personality built around the people saying “big compounds get you big and strong”, but you just don’t see the same with nutrition (beyond the GOMAD you see here and there).

Of the people who’ve been moderately or very successful with their lifting, about the only thing truly in common is that they lift, that they add weight or reps over time, and that they eat for performance. The details seem to be mostly irrelevant. “Clean” eating and Taco Bell both seem to produce good results when it comes to getting stronger. Enough total calories and enough protein seem to be the keys.

But that doesn’t sound like enough to build a cult around… then again, neither does “lift heavy using compound lifts, and lift more than you did yesterday”, but that seems to work.

37

OP – you’ll notice everyone here is pretty much telling you the same thing. You aren’t going to find a beginner program “tailored to your needs” because by definition a beginner program is based on the fundamentals, not on addressing asymmetry. You say your posture is fine so it probably isn’t a structural imbalance, just one arm that you’ve used more than the other so it’s stronger. And to be honest if you weigh 148 at 6’ it probably isn’t as big a deal as you think (because you haven’t built much muscle overall so it’s unlikely that one arm is really THAT much bigger or stronger than the other).

Choose a program based on progressing in compound movements and do it. Eat enough such that you are gaining at least 1lb every week. Do that for a few months, at least, and then see where you stand. I promise that doing this will be more productive than posting more on the internet.

38

By no means do I consider myself and expert on nutrition nor was I implying that. All I’m saying is I have a better understanding of nutrition than I do weight lifting. Hence the reason I started this post.

But all in all I agree with what yall are saying. I’m not trying to use the metabolism as a crutch, that’s just what I was told could be a major factor holding me back. I’ve kept food logs for weeks at a time off and on and I routinely eat 4,500+ calories a day. Apparently that’s just not enough. Like I mentioned before though I eat until I feel sick at every meal an try to eat between meals.

Does anybody have any tips on increasing your appetite?

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Choose a program based on progressing in compound movements and do it. Eat enough such that you are gaining at least 1lb every week. Do that for a few months, at least, and then see where you stand. I promise that doing this will be more productive than posting more on the internet.[/quote]

craze9: But in a nut shell, agreed. Can’t talk about it gotta be about it.

39

I have found success with short intense conditioning workouts to stimulate appetite. The Tabata protocol goes a long way here, with things like slam ball slams, burpees and some manner of clean and press going a long way. It had the side benefit of making you a betterlifter.

40

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]The-German wrote:
Until you produce results, you don’t know anything about nutrition.
[/quote]

I think it’s interesting to see this mentality so prevalent on this topic here, yet when it comes to lifting many times we witness beginners advising other beginners on how to get bigger and stronger. I wonder what promotes the difference in mentality.[/quote]

Well,for one thing,its not true. And,its not the best advice to give to a beginner. Eating a lot will not give you muscle if you don’t train properly. However,you can eat “wrong” and lift properly and still put on muscle. Nutrician is not the key to getting muscular. It may be part of it,but its way over emphasised IMO. To the OP I recommend finding a program you enjoy and can stick with as the most important thing. A traditional bodybuilding split may give you enuf variety and results to keep you on track. Over time,it will address your imbalances. I am pretty sure that your muscles will balance out as you get more muscular.