[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I like both versions. It doesn’t matter. Do whatever you want. Do a million pullovers, they’re great. I don’t care any more. But don’t you DARE post more threads asking for help when you won’t just get in the FUCKING gym and do something hard.[/quote]
Ok, seriously.
I think I can help.
If the sun is down…bourbon. Over ice is fine, especially if its hot out. Neat is also fine. I would peg Woodford as the proper starting point.
If the sun is up…bloody mary.
It will help.
A lot.
Don’t feel bad. You lasted longer than most of us could have. You clearly don’t have a Sentoguy level of patience/tolerance for punishment, but you did well. I think your posts probably helped some lurkers.
Now…bourbon or bloody mary.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
…Scotch?
Seriously, your post is encouraging. I am not at Sento’s level because I haven’t reached enlightenment yet. Hopefully he will lead on towards the path.
Speaking of the path, bloody mary for now, scotch happens later.
Great advice sir. Besides, tomato juice is healthy, right? …Right??
I think there is a pretty big difference between CAN bench and SHOULD bench. For most combat sports I am not sure if the bench is all that great of an exercise, but if the individual cannot put up a decent weight for reps without tearing themselves apart it is kind of a sign that they have issues that will get in the way of other more important training.[/quote]
100% agreed, and precisely (along with your third point below, being that it is so widespread) the big reason I keep it in (in limited fashion and volume, of course). This assumes the trainee is healthy to begin with with no shoulder problems obviously. I don’t think it is a very great exercise for combat sports and easily lean towards other presses, but it serves general strengthening purposes (if needed, of course) well because it involves a bunch of muscle groups at the same time. A favorite version is to just put some speed benches with a pause in training, for the bench addicted. This allows them to get their “fix” if they are young, and also doesn’t overwork an already heavily used pattern (internal rotation/pronation) while letting me do other useful stuff
Again agreed thoroughly. The other training is always most important
[quote]Additionally, rightly or wrongly the bench is sort of a common marker for a lot of coaches and school programs. I can understand professional trainers like DeFranco or Aragorn training it in because of this. If a bigger bench gets an athlete more opportunity than they sort of have a duty to take that into account, even if benching actually has fuck all to do with performing well.
[/quote]
Finally a great thought there as well. Much less important a consideration for fighters, but friggin programs everywhere look at bench…I could complain about the Pro Combine doing the rep test, but I won’t. This time lol
Also, your bloody mary seems to be doing a lot of therapy already :). I really did take that advice (since I have the opportunity to be away from work right now)
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I like both versions. It doesn’t matter. Do whatever you want. Do a million pullovers, they’re great. I don’t care any more. But don’t you DARE post more threads asking for help when you won’t just get in the FUCKING gym and do something hard.[/quote]
LoL…Damn, bro…LoL…I believe you have a boxing background, so, its time for a few rounds on the heavy bag…another suggestion: If you have access to a gun range, either indoor or outdoor, nothing soothes the savage soul like burning through a couple of magazines…of course followed by Robert’s medical advise…
[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
Actually, I still don’t totally get why you suggest the 2nd version and not start off with the 1st version.
I see what you’re saying, but I am sure if I totally agree with you on that. I mean while pullovers may not be able to build significant amount of upper body muscle, the exercise can still be an excellent shoulder and thoracic mobility exercise so long as you are using a dumbbell (which I personally use) or a barbell and not a path-guided (cam lever) pullover machine.
Furthermore, one the concerns I have with regard to the weight training sessions in the program, is that I dont have a swiss ball or a hyperextension bench or a sled or a pull through machine in order to do any one of the prescribed choices for a hip extension exercise. So, I am wondering if a free-weight substitute exercise such as the barbell stiff-legged exercise could be a viable substitute for any of the hip extension exercises listed on the program.
Additionally, I was wondering if it would be fine if I substituted pullovers (lol) and another row exercise for the prescribed exercises for the upper arm superset that’s performed on Thurs.[/quote]
The WSFSB versions are not meant as “do one after the other”. Each new one was an update. Version 2 is different than version one and version 3 has added fluff that some people find unnecessary. Someone advised you to do version 2. You can take it or leave it but don’t complain to the person who gave you advice if you didn’t implement it.
You haven’t earned the right to disagree. Sorry. All you know is from books. You’ve never actually WORKED on rows or pullovers for any amount of time.
Rows do everything pullovers do and then some. Pullovers leave out the mid back which is important for scapular stability, easpecially for people who punch. there’s your answer.
Do any posterior chain exercise. Romanian deadlifts, back extensions, russian leg curls, leg curls, hip thrusts… One of these will be possible.
No. No pullovers instead of curls. Either do rows as suggested or do damn curls. the biceps also act as a shoulder stabiliser so it’s a prehab exercise, in a way.
I’ll make something very clear: you’re young, weak and inexperienced. That’s okay, we’ve all been there. But just because you’ve read a few strength training books (which you didn’t comprehend since you get caught up in the details instead of seeing the underlying principles that they have in common) does not mean you’re qualified to disregard advice given by veterans. Show some humility, man.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I like both versions. It doesn’t matter. Do whatever you want. Do a million pullovers, they’re great. I don’t care any more. But don’t you DARE post more threads asking for help when you won’t just get in the FUCKING gym and do something hard.[/quote]
Ok, seriously.
I think I can help.
If the sun is down…bourbon. Over ice is fine, especially if its hot out. Neat is also fine. I would peg Woodford as the proper starting point.
If the sun is up…bloody mary.
It will help.
A lot.
Don’t feel bad. You lasted longer than most of us could have. You clearly don’t have a Sentoguy level of patience/tolerance for punishment, but you did well. I think your posts probably helped some lurkers.
Now…bourbon or bloody mary.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
…Scotch?
Seriously, your post is encouraging. I am not at Sento’s level because I haven’t reached enlightenment yet. Hopefully he will lead on towards the path.
Speaking of the path, bloody mary for now, scotch happens later.
Great advice sir. Besides, tomato juice is healthy, right? …Right??[/quote]
Nothing wrong with reading. I have literally read every single article and report and summary–and livespill–T-Nation has put out since they started (up til the past couple months anyways) I read constantly from here and other places. It’s smart and it’s useful. But the bottom line is, you WILL make costly mistakes and you WILL make subpar choices. You learn from your mistakes more than you learn from your correct choices. There is 0 % chance you do it perfectly the first time unless you’re a savant like Mozart. I did it, Prof X did it, Eric Cressey, Eric Hulse…everyone. [/quote]
Fantastic point Aragorn! Far too many beginners get paralysis by analysis trying to design the “perfect” training program right from day 1. We should make your quote into a MEME that we can post every time someone starts a thread obsessing over every single little detail.
Nothing wrong with reading. I have literally read every single article and report and summary–and livespill–T-Nation has put out since they started (up til the past couple months anyways) I read constantly from here and other places. It’s smart and it’s useful. But the bottom line is, you WILL make costly mistakes and you WILL make subpar choices. You learn from your mistakes more than you learn from your correct choices. There is 0 % chance you do it perfectly the first time unless you’re a savant like Mozart. I did it, Prof X did it, Eric Cressey, Eric Hulse…everyone. [/quote]
Fantastic point Aragorn! Far too many beginners get paralysis by analysis trying to design the “perfect” training program right from day 1. We should make your quote into a MEME that we can post every time someone starts a thread obsessing over every single little detail.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with reading. I have literally read every single article and report and summary–and livespill–T-Nation has put out since they started (up til the past couple months anyways) I read constantly from here and other places. It’s smart and it’s useful. But the bottom line is, you WILL make costly mistakes and you WILL make subpar choices. You learn from your mistakes more than you learn from your correct choices. There is 0 % chance you do it perfectly the first time unless you’re a savant like Mozart. I did it, Prof X did it, Eric Cressey, Eric Hulse…everyone. [/quote]
Fantastic point Aragorn! Far too many beginners get paralysis by analysis trying to design the “perfect” training program right from day 1. We should make your quote into a MEME that we can post every time someone starts a thread obsessing over every single little detail.[/quote]
Thanks Buddha, I’m glad you agree.
Btw, since you’ve reached the zenith of patience, that is what I am calling you from now on. Buddha.
I hope you don’t look like him though or that would be creepy…
Nothing wrong with reading. I have literally read every single article and report and summary–and livespill–T-Nation has put out since they started (up til the past couple months anyways) I read constantly from here and other places. It’s smart and it’s useful. But the bottom line is, you WILL make costly mistakes and you WILL make subpar choices. You learn from your mistakes more than you learn from your correct choices. There is 0 % chance you do it perfectly the first time unless you’re a savant like Mozart. I did it, Prof X did it, Eric Cressey, Eric Hulse…everyone. [/quote]
Fantastic point Aragorn! Far too many beginners get paralysis by analysis trying to design the “perfect” training program right from day 1. We should make your quote into a MEME that we can post every time someone starts a thread obsessing over every single little detail.[/quote]
Thanks Buddha, I’m glad you agree.
Btw, since you’ve reached the zenith of patience, that is what I am calling you from now on. Buddha.
I hope you don’t look like him though or that would be creepy…
