Help Improving Front Squat and DL

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Ok so I just started deadlifting and front squatting on a regular basis Novemeber '09. I don’t like how the traditional squat feels (I’m 6’1) and I can hit full depth a lot easier with the front squat.

I am training for bodybuilding but since I’m seeking advice on increasing these lifts I figured I’d post in here. I know I need to get much stronger on these lifts before I worry about doing 20 rep squats and things of that nature. 20 reps at 135 ain’t gonna do a lot of hypertrophy.

My goal is to get freaky huge, but I know I need a good foundation on the core lifts.

Been ‘working out’ since I was 16, ‘training’ for less than a year.
188 lbs last November, currently ~215 lbs. FOUND THE FOOD!

Current max’s:

Front squat - 230 x 2

Deadlift 425 x 1

Current routines:

Legs:

Front squat: 25-30 working reps. I don’t do more than 6 reps a set besides the warm up, and usually more than 3 reps.

SLDL - Been doing higher reps, like 15, 12, 12. I was never really comfortable with this exercise but my hamstrings suck, and I actually partially tore my left ham ~ 2 years ago so I do a lot of unilateral work as my right is still much stronger.

Leg extension - 3 x 15, 12, 10. Sometimes do a drop set here also.

Single leg hamstring curl - 3 x 12,10,10.

Hyperextension (no GHR) - 3 x 10

Deads:

Heavy day: 5, 3, 1, 1, 1, etc. until I hopefully pull a new 1 RM.

Light day: 4x6 or similar.

Pullups: 35, however many sets that takes

DB row or HS row - 3 x 10 sometimes 3 x 10,8,6

Leverage lat pulldown machine (idk wtf the proper name is), or seated cable row, 3 x 10ish.

If my legs are too sore to deadlift I will rack pull instead, I do that roughly 1-2 a month depending.

I did BB bent over row for a while, but I cant really do that with any weight after I deadlift. I’ve been training my hamstrings and low back much more now and feel better overall but I’m finding it difficult to add 5 lbs per heavy day of squat or deadlift.

I know there is no template out there but I’m just seeking some advice. I’ve learned a lot on here by reading and I figured I could learn even more by starting a thread.

SUMMARY:

Goal is to get huge. Squat and deadlift seem to have stagnated, even though I haven’t been doing them for years so I suppose it’s not actual stagnation, just lacking a proper protocol.

2

Tell me about the avatar from Jersey Shore… I’m not for hitting women at all but you shouldnt put yourself in that type of situation yelling in the face of someone who is so drunk they look like they have downs syndrome

3

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Tell me about the avatar from Jersey Shore… I’m not for hitting women at all but you shouldnt put yourself in that type of situation yelling in the face of someone who is so drunk they look like they have downs syndrome[/quote]

I’ll tell you about the avatar if you help me with the squat/deadlift. My main goal is to increase the deadlift but I know the squat needs to go with it.

I didn’t watch the episode but I got the jist of it from the article where I found the GIF… basically the dude that hit her took some drinks that she/the people she was with had ordered and she was bitching him out…wham. Idk what else there was to it but the bitches name is Snookie so that should clarify some shit.

Anyway… how often should I incorporate deficit deadlifts?

4

try pull throughs, glute ham raises etc. substitute the deadlift with good mornings for max effort lift. maybe rom. split squats, reverse lunges off deficits etc. for quads?

5

I have access to kettleballs, so I thought about adding in some kettleball swings instead of the pull through. No GHR and I don’t have a partner to hold my legs. Should I do that after all of my normal back workout? Or how would I fit that in?

6

yeah kb swings would do, are they heavy enough? id put them in with a leg workout, because their mainly working the glutes and hams if done right. maybe something like a max effort exercise, a unilateral exercise like split squats, and finish off with a posterior chain movement like kb swings? id drop the leg extensions and curls you wont get much stronger from then, maybe im wrong.

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[quote]richiemccaw wrote:
yeah kb swings would do, are they heavy enough? id put them in with a leg workout, because their mainly working the glutes and hams if done right. maybe something like a max effort exercise, a unilateral exercise like split squats, and finish off with a posterior chain movement like kb swings? id drop the leg extensions and curls you wont get much stronger from then, maybe im wrong.[/quote]

I’m not sure how heavy they go… what do you think I need? They’ve got a pretty good range it looks like but I’ve never touched them. Get back to ya tomorrow.

Yes I can agree with dropping the leg extensions but my hamstrings still get pretty sore, and I really need to bring them up so I’ll probably keep them in for now.

So maybe:

Front squat
Bulgarian split squat
KB swings
Leg curl or hyperextension
?

8

You should be back squatting as well as front squatting if you want your overall squat #s to go up. FWIW, your deadlift will increase as your squat #s go up. Either front squat 2x per week and back squat once, or vice versa.

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[quote]deadlift425 wrote:
You should be back squatting as well as front squatting if you want your overall squat #s to go up. FWIW, your deadlift will increase as your squat #s go up. Either front squat 2x per week and back squat once, or vice versa. [/quote]

Yes I was under the impression that squat ^ = deadlift ^.

I suppose I can throw in the back squat once a week and see how it goes.

What sort of routine would you recommend overall if I’m going to squat 3x a week and how many times would I deadlift per week?

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what about romanian deadlifts instead of the curls, the hamstrings never work without the glutes so theres no real need to isolate them like that. when your rom. deads go up your deadlifts should too. i know it doesnt seem like much but if your hittin it hard i dont really see a need for more than the first three exercises. just make sure your changing exercises every 4 weeks so you can keep adapting and working on your weaknesses. have a look at joe de franco’s site for a look at an excellent template. he makes a living of making nfl athletes posterior chains stronger so it should work for you too.

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[quote]richiemccaw wrote:
what about romanian deadlifts instead of the curls, the hamstrings never work without the glutes so theres no real need to isolate them like that. when your rom. deads go up your deadlifts should too. i know it doesnt seem like much but if your hittin it hard i dont really see a need for more than the first three exercises. just make sure your changing exercises every 4 weeks so you can keep adapting and working on your weaknesses. have a look at joe de franco’s site for a look at an excellent template. he makes a living of making nfl athletes posterior chains stronger so it should work for you too.[/quote]

Yeah I’ve never actually done RDL’s. I youtubed them recently to try and figure it out but I think I need more of an explanation on how it differs from the deadlift. I know you bend your knees slightly compared to the SLDL but they are all so damn similar…

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by sldl do you mean single leg?

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Like deadlift 425 said, you should squat more often. But don’t just stick to front squats and back squats, you’ll want more variations there to make progress on, to avoid developing glaring weak points quickly.

Some of my most used options:

Back Squats
Front Squats
Zercher Squats (full, or from pins)
Box Squats
V-Squats
Hack Squats

Sumo Deadlift
Sumo RDLs (also called Immortal Deadlifts, or IDLs)
Glute Ham Raises (GHRs)
Shrugs (very important for increasing deadlift)
Conventional Stance RDLs

Use 1-2 of these variations say, every other day, for 1-2 working sets after warmups, and you will see improvement very quickly.

Also, don’t keep doing 5-3-1-1-1-1 etc all the time, you need to pull doubles and triple if you want to consistently pull PRs, making a habit of failing reps is BAD. So a week could look like this (only writing out stuff from this list, not including upper body work):

Monday: Front Squats, GHRs

Wednesday: Box Squats

Friday: Sumo DLs

Sunday: Zercher Squats from pins, V-Squats

Key is only doing 1 or sometimes 2 working sets per exercise; this allows your body and CNS to recover quickly, therefore allowing you to make faster strength gains, and maximize mind-muscle connection and muscle memory and all that.

14

[quote]richiemccaw wrote:
by sldl do you mean single leg?[/quote]

SLDL=Stiff Legged DeadLift

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well then yes sldl and romanian deads are the same things

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[quote]richiemccaw wrote:
well then yes sldl and romanian deads are the same things[/quote]

Um no…

Stiff legged deadlift=knees bend VERY little, if at all, during whole movement, hence the STUFF LEGGED part.

Romanian deadlifts=the bar doesn’t touch the ground in between reps.

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Romanian

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jesus how did i not know that

19

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Like deadlift 425 said, you should squat more often. But don’t just stick to front squats and back squats, you’ll want more variations there to make progress on, to avoid developing glaring weak points quickly.

Some of my most used options:

Back Squats
Front Squats
Zercher Squats (full, or from pins)
Box Squats
V-Squats
Hack Squats

Sumo Deadlift
Sumo RDLs (also called Immortal Deadlifts, or IDLs)
Glute Ham Raises (GHRs)
Shrugs (very important for increasing deadlift)
Conventional Stance RDLs

Use 1-2 of these variations say, every other day, for 1-2 working sets after warmups, and you will see improvement very quickly.

Also, don’t keep doing 5-3-1-1-1-1 etc all the time, you need to pull doubles and triple if you want to consistently pull PRs, making a habit of failing reps is BAD. So a week could look like this (only writing out stuff from this list, not including upper body work):

Monday: Front Squats, GHRs

Wednesday: Box Squats

Friday: Sumo DLs

Sunday: Zercher Squats from pins, V-Squats

Key is only doing 1 or sometimes 2 working sets per exercise; this allows your body and CNS to recover quickly, therefore allowing you to make faster strength gains, and maximize mind-muscle connection and muscle memory and all that. [/quote]

Wow thanks man. That video is helpful too.

Could you give me an example on how to work up to a proper working set for say front squats (since I’ve already listed my max for that)? How many reps would you recommend for these working sets?

What would you recommend for upper body work while following an every other day routine like you outlined?

Thanks again everyone who has responded to my OP. My eyes are being opened wide!

20

Here’s what I did for front squats 2 or 3 days ago:

135x5
225x4
315x2
385x1
455x1

When working up to a triple, it was similar:

135x5
225x4
315x2
365x1
415x3

With VERY FEW exceptions, as you progress through warmups, weight jumps should stay the same, or get smaller, not increase.

As for upper body, you could do something somewhat similar, just remember that it will take a little bit (2-3 weeks most likely) for your body to adjust to higher frequency. Take it easy-ish for the first week or so to avoid screwing yourself up big time, and get a feel for doing it this way before you start breaking a shitload of PRs. PS eggs are your friend, to the tune of 12 a day 60-90 minutes after your workout.