Help a Grappler: Minimum Protocol Needed to Achieve My Goals?

Pharma
43

You make some very interesting points @hankthetank89 . Thank you for taking the time and sharing your insight.

Having thought about your post here are some points I have reflected on:

  • My BJJ performance is more important than how I look, even if that means no further weight loss. I can compete at this weight rather than one division down which I had as my goal previously (I won my last comp at this higher division).

  • I must admit I have felt exhausted for quite some time.

  • I dont normally consume caffeine but have relied on it heavily since October to get all the training in while being in a deficit. I also had covid 3 weeks ago after my competition.

  • BJJ volume isnt about learning more techniques, but rather having enough time sparring to refine and improve techniques while making them more instinctual. I also compete every 3 months or so.

  • I could reduce bjj to 3 times per week but that would mean doing the competition classes which is 1.5hrs of hard sparring with only killers (most in their 20s). This would be enough sparring time for sure, but after each session I am dead. This option might even be better for my progression.

My current week typically looks like this:
M - BJJ
T - BJJ + push day
W - BJJ
T - BJJ
F - BJJ + Pull day ( I keep skipping squats because no gas left)
S - Rest
S - Rest

  • I sometimes take Wednesday off also if feeling beat up*

I agree 2 times a week lifting makes more sense. I need to fit in squats as I am negeletting them. I am currently doing:
Day 1: Overhead Press, Flat Bench, Dips superset with cable crossovers then lastly skull crushers

Day 2: sumo deadlift, conventional high reps (2 sets), chin ups weighted, rows, then shrugs superset with bicep curls.

I am currently taking 4 days off to let my body recover. Maybe I should extend that to 1 week, but it kills me not training.

May I ask:

  1. Would eating at maintenance or just above maintenance help resolve the overtraining issue once I have done a rest of 4 to 7 days? I am currently at a weight that allows me to compete without any weight cutting.

  2. Is 3 days a week of bjj (1.5 hours class with 1 hour of hard sparring) + 2 days lifting better than
    4 to 5 days of bjj (30min warmup and technique and 30min sparring) + 2 days lifting?

  3. Anything else that can help handle this volume? HGH?

Thanks for all the amazing advice. Sucks getting old but happy to be 40, healthy and strong. Oss

44

@swoops what is the most accurate may to work this out please?

45

Yes, I would agree.

Unfortunately also agree despite calories appearing correct for a cut,

No but I am concerned now about what you are eating and when you are eating it. Lay put your meal plan and macros for us. Why are you eating 3000 calls one day a week?

FWIW I’m much shorter but started me recent cut Jan 1 at a little over 200lbs. My macros are 40/30/30 and 2200 calls. I eat the same thing every day. Down to 185 already with strict compliance to the food regimen and TRT at 160mg/wk.

46

Sure, here is what I typically eat:
Breakfast (700 calories):
4 eggs
1 white toast
40g Oats with water
25g casein
Fish oils
Vitamin d
Vitamin k

Lunch (450 calroies):
Chicken Breast or 5% mince beef
125g rice
Veg

Snack/Post workout (200 calories):
Whey Isolate 35g
Green vibrance

Dinner (550 calories):
140g Chicken Breast
250g Low fat oven fries
Veg

Before Bed (320 calories):
Bresoala
1 toast
1 x cottage cheese

Screenshot_20220225-095748_MyFitnessPal
Screenshot_20220225-095748_MyFitnessPal1397×980 92 KB

Regarding the 3,000 calorie day:
Once a week I tend to go out of for dinner with the mrs or have an extra meal or one higher calorie meal. I dont drink booze or eat desert, but maybe I have a pasta or some bread and butter, etc. I also account for extra calories in the food (cooking with more butter etc).

Meal Timings:
Because I do bjj around 2pm and sometimes do weights around 4, I eat 2 meals after. Typically, big breakfeast, training, shake, meal around 6, another meal around 11.

47

Give it a go by NOT doing this. When I go out with my wife I order a salad with the lowest calorie dressing on the side and a diet soda. This is it. Its not really even one of my meals, its just something to do so I don’t feel awkward not eating. Eat the rest of your meals as planned.

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48

I dont think so.
In my experience, you can eat and get even fat but still overtrain. People like us - who lift AND fight, we just cant handle that. No one that lifts good is a good fighther and vice versa - there is a reason. What you(and me too) are trying to do is sit on 2 chairs with 1 ass. You end up falling in between and sitting on none.
I believe your BJJ schedule is too packed for you to be able to lift at all.

Id say its about the same. If you are training for competition you need to drop the idea of going hard in the gym.

You can try it at 2ius a day but in my experience - i just kill myself anyway. There is a point of amounts of stress on CNS that just is not doable.

Id say - no… Squats dont do shit for BJJ, so there is no point.
I would also drop deadlifts as squats and deadlifts are the most taxing and you really dont need these movements in BJJ anyways.

Bodyweight chin ups… rows only in a machine or supported - in no way an actual bent over barbell row.

What i would suggest to you is splitting this shit up even more in the gym.
Day 1 - Overhead Press, Chins and Dips.
Day 2 - Sumo Dead, Leg extensions.
Day 1 - Bench, Machine Rows, Dips.
Day 2 - Squats, Leg curls.

So you would be squatting and/or deadlifting once every 14 days - this way you could be able to do it if you keep the volume low.
I would suggest doing Original 531 without the AMRAP set. Just the minimal reps. Thats what im doing currently to manage my fatigue.
So the base movement - minimal reps with a good program. Then just opposite muscle group and done.
But since you are really serious about BJJ i don think you need gym at all. I believe you just shoot yourself in the leg with that.
Lately i am more serious about my strenght training so i push that more and i have limited my fighting training to 1 sparring session a week, and 1 technical training a week. But it looks like i still need to limit my strenght training and i need to deload at least every 7th week… and MAYBE i will still be doing squats and deads only once every 14 days.

You dont need gym to lose weight anyways. It doesnt burn calories.
You can do 200 bodyweight squats, get a leg workout and burn much more calories than you would by squatting at the gym.

You can also look into Walrus training by Jim Wendler and just do weight vest stuff or circuit and conditioning stuff like Murph.

I believe basic strenght and serious combat sports do not go too well together unless you really limit one of them in which case we have to wonder if its even worth keeping the one.

3 Likes
49

I did a VO2 test, breathed into a tube for 20 minutes (or maybe it was 12?) and they use that to calculate my resting metabolic rate. Then I did 3 under water weighing test to get an accurate BF. Then I wore a tracker on my arm that was reported to have 92% accuracy to get NEAT, if I just worked and lived and didn’t do any exercise, that was consistently 300-400 cal. Then I wore it for lifting weights, boxing, cycling, etc. for 6 workouts each and took an average, and used that to figure out my TDEE. Turned out to be pretty accurate. Today I just wear an Apple Watch and it usually gets pretty close, but I don’t take it as gospel.

At the end of the day, I know if I eat 2000 cal I slowly lose weight, 2300 and I’ll maintain, and 2500 if I want to slowly bulk. That’s the real-world results.

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50

why don’t you like to let it aromatize? here, in my country, athletes usually let it aromatize and enter tamoxifen in any sensitivity. if really necessary, AI at a very low dose.

51

Worried about gyno etc.

I kept my exemestane the same as what my doc has me taking on my trt dosage.

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52

@hankthetank89 I am doing a small blast at present of 200mg Test Cyp and 90mg NPP. So what value your advice and the advice of others.

I am trying to recomp by dropping 12 lbs over the next 8 weeks.

May I ask:

  1. How much water weight did you gain on the test and npp cycle?

  2. How long did you run it?

  3. Did the npp mess with your sleep? I am waking up multiple times a night and think it might be the npp.

Thanks

53

My experience with npp was super short. I was doing everything so low dose nothing did shit, if i have to be honest.
I am a fan of tren for bulk and for cut.

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54

Grappling is filthy with steroid cheaters, do not become one.

55

It is only cheating if the rules ban them. For example, ADCC rules do not mention anything about PEDs and they do not test for them. Therefore, using PEDs for/in an ADCC competition is not cheating. IBJJF Rule 5.10 outlines their involvement with USADA; using PEDs for/in an IBJJF competition is cheating.

57

Lol I was going to say this

BJJ is rifle with steroid use. IBJJF to my knowledge only tests at worlds, and even then it’s usually a few of the upper belts… a fraction of the competition pool gets tested

State titles, national titles etc don’t test… I don’t even think pans tests

If BJJ stands a chance at becoming an olympic sport they need to get on board with the police state anti doping policies enacted (that are so strict athletes are getting popped for trace supplement contamination)… imo it’s gone too far but that’s another topic alltogether

ADCC doesn’t test… i’m not sure about grappling industries

Juice probably helps with BJJ, but skill/technique also seems to matter a loooooooottttt.

I suppose juice allows one to train more. Would also make you stronger, helping with grip breaks, throws etc.

Occasionally you’ll see a contestant muscle their way out of a bad position, but it’s usually skill/technique that prevails.

It’s not like bodybuilding where juice makes a night and day difference.

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58

I agree with you @unreal24278 . Strength only comes into play when technique/skill are of a similar level.

It is also important to consider age. A guy in his 40s vs a guy in his early 30s or even 20s. Moderate AAS help level the playing field. Although AAS still dont help with preexisting injuries etc that the younger guys usually dont have.

59

With grappling and younger (or older) guys the injuries are an example of selective pressure.

There are things one can do to decrease the liklihood of serious injuries occuring like mobility work, resistance training and choosing carefully who you roll with

But plenty of young guys wind up with labral tears, acl tears, mcl tears, dislocations, broken bones etc.

The young guys who keep training 2-3x/day who wind up on podiums aren’t impervious to injury or wear and tear because they’re younger… they’re just lucky

I know one dude who is in his late teens, has been in bjj since he was like six… the guys fingers are showing signs of serious arthritis… he is going to be in for an absolute world of pain ten years from now. This guy has sustained all sorts of gnarly injuries… the idea age somehow precludes one from serious injuries is a myth.

I could list out the horrible injuries my cousin got from playing rugby at a young age… you’d think we were talking about a seasoned veteran… disk issues, broken scapula, shoulder surgery etc.

Still… considering many wind up with joint replacements and disk issues when adopting a sedentary lifestyle i’d argue the benefits from these sports (not rugby… but bjj) outweigh the risks for most.

You have wear and tear injuries… like hip osteoarthritis in someone with untreated FAI… and you have boom and snap injuries like a rotator cuff or labral tear after a traumatic shoulder dislocation.

Younger people are less susceptible to serious wear and tear unless they’ve been training for over a decade. But the “boom and snap” injuries are still very prevalent.

As to evening the playing field… with trt sure

With blasting, you are going well above evening the playing field in terms of how fast you can recover and how strong you can get.

But gear isn’t going to do shit for skill and technique… only putting in the hours day in and day out will help you there… and if it’s not explicitly prohibited… it’s not prohibited…

Guys in their 20s can take gear too… and at the higher levels many do…

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