[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
And it’ll end up as bankrupt as Massachusetts.[/quote]
They’re not the only ones.
[/quote]
“The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
[/quote]
What does this have to do with socialism, and would you rather see those states go bankrupt?
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Hey, are you guys going to tell us what YOU both do for a living???
Assistant managers at Jiffy Lube? Manager at a telemarketing call center?[/quote]
Wrong on both counts. But if I were a Manager of a Jiffy Lube or a tele-marketing company I would be very proud to be a contributing member of the economy. Are you smart enough to know where I’m going with this?
[/quote]
All I know is that:
You say crazy things ang usually don’t back them up. When I question you on it, you insult me.
You support GOP ideals which favor the rich, but you don’t seem to one of them. Why do you support policies that are counter to your own economic interests? This always astounds me about republicans. Most are NOT even in the top 2% of wage earners.
This is why most people don’t engage the far right. You guys are so angry.
[/quote]
Can’t address #1, but as far as #2–if what you stated above is taken as true at face value, why would ANYONE support and advocate policies or principles that go against their current state of affairs and personal interests?
Because they genuinely believe that it is the best way to progress for the country as a whole and will lead to a better situation as a whole. In other words, they believe that it benefits EVERYONE more–including themselves-- in the LONG RUN, instead of benefitting only themselves RIGHT NOW. They believe, in other words, that it is the road to the greatest attainable good for all. That is the only reason someone would willingly take up a position counter to their current personal needs and interests.
This fact leaves aside several entirely different threads of conversation, namely
that your view of the GOP ideals is simplistic at best if your above stated position is really your opinion. Not that the GOP is perfect, or even that I agree with them, and certainly not to say that there are not legitimate criticisms of past and present GOP policies or positions that have a lot of weight.
A number of GOP policies would be much better for people not in the top 2% of wage earners, and thus might not in fact be counter to ZEB’s own personal interests in the first place, and you should already have known that.
There are others, but I am not interested in a protracted discussion that is outside the bounds of the current topic (healthcare)
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
And it’ll end up as bankrupt as Massachusetts.[/quote]
They’re not the only ones.
[/quote]
“The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
[/quote]
What does this have to do with socialism, and would you rather see those states go bankrupt?
[/quote]
Dunno, does “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need” ring any bells?
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
I get it. Every man for himself! In which situation I would be ok. I’m 41, in good shape, 20+years of kickboxing, terminal degree, top 2% of wage earners.
You know what?? Fuck all u middle class and poor! I’m only worried about myself!
I’m gonna go stomp a homeless person now!
Don’t forget to include “professor” in your responses, as to discount my views.
Fuck the poor!! (See “A Christmas Carol” for details)
You guys wouldn’t be CHRISTIANS would you???
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
I get it. Every man for himself! In which situation I would be ok. I’m 41, in good shape, 20+years of kickboxing, terminal degree, top 2% of wage earners.
You know what?? Fuck all u middle class and poor! I’m only worried about myself!
I’m gonna go stomp a homeless person now!
Don’t forget to include “professor” in your responses, as to discount my views.
Fuck the poor!! (See “A Christmas Carol” for details)
You guys wouldn’t be CHRISTIANS would you???[/quote]
Hey Dr. Moneybags,
Make sure you beat the fuck out of that poor person, after all, you will be paying for his health care and recovery.
Then since you beat the every living shit out of him (hopefully), you will pay for his home, car, kids’ college fund, and medical expenses, because they are all “rights.”
You’re right, fuck the poor, because thinking like yours means they will fuck you right back.
You should be smarter than to bring religion into this. A Liberal thinks it’s ok to kill a fetus, but fight to keep a convicted murderer alive. Think before you speak professor.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2009-07-01.asp
"After all, what does a right to health care mean? If I have a right to something, then doesnâ??t that mean that you have a correlative duty to provide it? If youâ??re a doctor, then it means that you are required to serve my needs, like it or not. If I need an operation, then you cannot say â??noâ?? because that would be denying me my right to health care.
Thus, isnâ??t the right to health care actually a power to force doctors to provide people with medical services?"
[/quote]
Actually it’s about forcing people who work for a living to pay Doctors to treat people who don’t work for a living. We also pay Doctors to treat deserving people who are unable to work for a living. Example: A veteren who got his arms and legs blown off protecting us. Therefore funding healthcare should be based on needs. Not having any money is not a need if you are able to earn some.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
And it’ll end up as bankrupt as Massachusetts.[/quote]
They’re not the only ones.
[/quote]
“The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
[/quote]
What does this have to do with socialism, and would you rather see those states go bankrupt?
[/quote]
Really, you don’t recognize unemployment benefits as socialistic?
I’d rather any entity(states corporations, banks, individuals) that makes poor financial decisions be required to deal with the consequences of those decisions rather than be bailed out by taxpayers.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
I get it. Every man for himself! In which situation I would be ok. I’m 41, in good shape, 20+years of kickboxing, terminal degree, top 2% of wage earners.[/quote]
Yeah, I’m going to have to call bullshit on this one too. You’re a college professor making $250,000 - $364,00/yr? According to the American Association of University Professors, the average professor makes $98,974. A more specific example is Princeton, who has the 3rd highest paid professors in the country, pay their full professors an average of $145,600. Leads me to believe you lie like a rug.
[quote]You know what?? Fuck all u middle class and poor! I’m only worried about myself!
I’m gonna go stomp a homeless person now![/quote]
Here’s where you argument goes for ignorant to just plain stupid.
Reddog says the Fed Gov’t should not take tax money to provide for the specific welfare of anybody.
Garcia says Reddog thinks we should all stomp homeless people to death.
Rally dude? This furthers my suspicions that not only are you not a professor, but you are in fact not very well educated at all.
You do a fine job of discounting your views, but just for you I mentioned it 6 times
[quote]Fuck the poor!! (See “A Christmas Carol” for details)
You guys wouldn’t be CHRISTIANS would you???[/quote]
I don’t believe stealing from one class of people to give to another is really a Christian virtue. I know Charity is, which I practice rather generously. Do you?
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
I get it. Every man for himself! In which situation I would be ok. I’m 41, in good shape, 20+years of kickboxing, terminal degree, top 2% of wage earners.[/quote]
Yeah, I’m going to have to call bullshit on this one too. You’re a college professor making $250,000 - $364,00/yr? According to the American Association of University Professors, the average professor makes $98,974. A more specific example is Princeton, who has the 3rd highest paid professors in the country, pay their full professors an average of $145,600. Leads me to believe you lie like a rug.
[quote]You know what?? Fuck all u middle class and poor! I’m only worried about myself!
I’m gonna go stomp a homeless person now![/quote]
Here’s where you argument goes for ignorant to just plain stupid.
Reddog says the Fed Gov’t should not take tax money to provide for the specific welfare of anybody.
Garcia says Reddog thinks we should all stomp homeless people to death.
Rally dude? This furthers my suspicions that not only are you not a professor, but you are in fact not very well educated at all.
You do a fine job of discounting your views, but just for you I mentioned it 6 times
[quote]Fuck the poor!! (See “A Christmas Carol” for details)
You guys wouldn’t be CHRISTIANS would you???[/quote]
I don’t believe stealing from one class of people to give to another is really a Christian virtue. I know Charity is, which I practice rather generously. Do you?
[/quote]
Charity should be limited to those who actually intend on improving their situation. How many poor people actually get off the public dole? How many people get off skid row and make a better life for themselves?
If you choose to donate knowing that the money is not going to any improvement of any person or cause, then that is your reality, not mine. I saw someone buy groceries using an EBT card, yet had an iPhone 4, yea I have a problem with that.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
I get it. Every man for himself! In which situation I would be ok. I’m 41, in good shape, 20+years of kickboxing, terminal degree, top 2% of wage earners.[/quote]
Yeah, I’m going to have to call bullshit on this one too. You’re a college professor making $250,000 - $364,00/yr? According to the American Association of University Professors, the average professor makes $98,974. A more specific example is Princeton, who has the 3rd highest paid professors in the country, pay their full professors an average of $145,600. Leads me to believe you lie like a rug.
[quote]You know what?? Fuck all u middle class and poor! I’m only worried about myself!
I’m gonna go stomp a homeless person now![/quote]
Here’s where you argument goes for ignorant to just plain stupid.
Reddog says the Fed Gov’t should not take tax money to provide for the specific welfare of anybody.
Garcia says Reddog thinks we should all stomp homeless people to death.
Rally dude? This furthers my suspicions that not only are you not a professor, but you are in fact not very well educated at all.
You do a fine job of discounting your views, but just for you I mentioned it 6 times
[quote]Fuck the poor!! (See “A Christmas Carol” for details)
You guys wouldn’t be CHRISTIANS would you???[/quote]
I don’t believe stealing from one class of people to give to another is really a Christian virtue. I know Charity is, which I practice rather generously. Do you?
[/quote]
Charity should be limited to those who actually intend on improving their situation. How many poor people actually get off the public dole? How many people get off skid row and make a better life for themselves?
If you choose to donate knowing that the money is not going to any improvement of any person or cause, then that is your reality, not mine. I saw someone buy groceries using an EBT card, yet had an iPhone 4, yea I have a problem with that.[/quote]
Oh, I agree, but at least charity is voluntary, traxes are not.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
What does this have to do with socialism, and would you rather see those states go bankrupt?
[/quote]
Really, you don’t recognize unemployment benefits as socialistic?
I’d rather any entity(states corporations, banks, individuals) that makes poor financial decisions be required to deal with the consequences of those decisions rather than be bailed out by taxpayers.[/quote]
In true socialist fashion you’d see very little unemployement, tbh. There are varying degrees of social democracies among the first world nations, but none are socialist.
Reddog, thanks for the personal attacks. Knew I could count on you.
No. I don’t make $250,000/yr. That is true. Just kind of said that in the heat of the moment.
I wonder how much more of your bullshit was also said in the heat of the moment.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I wonder how much more of your bullshit was also said in the heat of the moment. [/quote]
Most.
Tax the $h1t out of non-neccessary medical procedures, i.e. face lifts, lipo, bleached teeth and use that money to help pay for BASIC health care needs.
Plus many people in the US blame someone else for their problems. “Its the government’s fault that X corp isn’t knocking at my door with at 6 figure job”
You want to talk about class equality? Let everyone pay their fair share. 15% tax on EVERYBODY. Oh you want to tax the to 2% over 60%? Kind of makes them worth more to the country than those that don’t pay anything.
I’m going to love the feedback on these…BRING IT!
[quote]limburg wrote:
Tax the $h1t out of non-neccessary medical procedures, i.e. face lifts, lipo, bleached teeth and use that money to help pay for BASIC health care needs.
Plus many people in the US blame someone else for their problems. “Its the government’s fault that X corp isn’t knocking at my door with at 6 figure job”
You want to talk about class equality? Let everyone pay their fair share. 15% tax on EVERYBODY. Oh you want to tax the to 2% over 60%? Kind of makes them worth more to the country than those that don’t pay anything.
I’m going to love the feedback on these…BRING IT![/quote]
I am not as contentious as you but how can some one that does not make enough to live pay %15 ? just curious
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I wonder how much more of your bullshit was also said in the heat of the moment. [/quote]
That he has a PhD.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I wonder how much more of your bullshit was also said in the heat of the moment. [/quote]
That he has a PhD.
[/quote]
Racist !
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Aragon: not sure what u were getting at. Pleaae explain in more detail. Thanks.
[/quote]
My apologies for confusing things. I will try again:
You would agree that part of human nature is to act in one’s personal self interest, yes? And further that humans tend to be selfish as a whole, screwing other people over if it suits their desires or needs. You have made a good number of allusions to this trait in your posts in this thread and others.
So, being that it is human nature to be selfish and act to further one’s personal interests, even at the expense of others, it would be contrary to the selfish human nature to act against your personal interests, yes?
Now, according to your post you submit a) that GOP policies are geared to only benefit the top 2% of wage earners, and b) that Zeb is not in the top 2% of wage earners. Therefore you do not understand why he supports these policies, as it goes against his natural self interests.
I agree with you–humans tend to act in self interest. Therefore, in order for someone to act against his own personal interests he must have some compelling reason to do so. In other words, he must be persuaded that it is better to sacrifice his own goals for something greater. I am telling you that ZEB’s support for the GOP policies that you say are against his self-interest is based on PRINCIPLES that he believes to be for the greater good of the country, and in the long term greater good for EVERYONE in the country, including himself. In other words, he believes that to act in
That was the essence of my first couple paragraphs. The rest was:
a) that you do not understand GOP policies, or to the extent that you do your understanding is superficial. I make sure to say though that there are very good reasons that the GOP policies can and have been criticized, both in the past and the present. It is not that they are beyond criticism (they are not), but that you are being simplistic in your criticism and do not seem to understand what their policies actually MEAN.
b) a great deal depends on your perspective and how you interpret data, therefore to label things as black and white as you have done is to display an incomplete understanding of the GOP’s positions. Many people on this board fall into this trap, though not all critics do by any means.
c) Many GOP policies benefit many, many more people than just the top 2% wage earners, and to say otherwise is to buy into shitty rhetorical propaganda by the opposing party and further demonstrate an incomplete understanding of the things you are criticizing.
d) that in addition to ZEB believing that these GOP policies you criticize are for the country’s better future, ZEB may fall into one of the other groups lower than the top 2% that benefit from GOP policies, and thus it is possible that his support can be BOTH out of solid belief that these principles are better for the USA’s future and out of some measure of self-interest.
As for the rest of the post I quoted, I must confess that I feel it is unbecoming your education level to speak with such “text speak” jargon and misplaced anger. A man of high education such as yourself must surely feel that his points are better taken in a grammatically correct and well-spoken post. It is frustrating however, I admit, and I sometimes let anger get the better of me as well. However even I feel this way and I do not have my terminal degree yet.
[quote]limburg wrote:
Tax the $h1t out of non-neccessary medical procedures, i.e. face lifts, lipo, bleached teeth and use that money to help pay for BASIC health care needs.
Plus many people in the US blame someone else for their problems. “Its the government’s fault that X corp isn’t knocking at my door with at 6 figure job”
You want to talk about class equality? Let everyone pay their fair share. 15% tax on EVERYBODY. Oh you want to tax the to 2% over 60%? Kind of makes them worth more to the country than those that don’t pay anything.
I’m going to love the feedback on these…BRING IT![/quote]
I rather agree with your first 2 paragraphs. Actually, I rather agree with it all but those first two are pretty uncontroversial.
HOWEVER–I would except breast enhancements from this “tax the shit out of policy”. Everyone should look at amazing breasts all the time :). The world would be a better place with more of them.