Health Care is Not a Right

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]limburg wrote:
Tax the $h1t out of non-neccessary medical procedures, i.e. face lifts, lipo, bleached teeth and use that money to help pay for BASIC health care needs.

Plus many people in the US blame someone else for their problems. “Its the government’s fault that X corp isn’t knocking at my door with at 6 figure job”

You want to talk about class equality? Let everyone pay their fair share. 15% tax on EVERYBODY. Oh you want to tax the to 2% over 60%? Kind of makes them worth more to the country than those that don’t pay anything.

I’m going to love the feedback on these…BRING IT![/quote]

I am not as contentious as you but how can some one that does not make enough to live pay %15 ? just curious [/quote]

well, i agree with you somewhat. But on the other hand, there are lots of people that are “not making a living wage” only because they are wasting hundreds of dollars, if not more, every month on premium cable, premium high speed internet, and premium cellphones with plans.

You don’t get to bitch about your wages being “non-livable” if you spend 100+ dollars a month on fucking [u]TV[/u]. And there are, quite literally, millions of these people. And I don’t have any fucking sympathy for the people that COULD live on their wages but choose instead to go buy a bunch of shit and services they don’t need with money they shouldn’t spend.

Another reason for the “non-livable” wage is bloated state and local gov’t. Looking at different cost of living adjustment sites, to live in New York City at the same quality of life level as someone in my area making $30,000 a year, you would have to make about $75,000!! Are you shitting me?? Fuck that, and fuck NYC’s bloat.

Certainly those reasons do not cover everybody. I am not saying that they do. But equally as certainly it is ASININE to expect that someone should have to give away that amount of money to bloated, inefficient and corrupt gov’t…or expect that gov’t should fix their money problems when they spend over 200 bucks a month on cable/satellite and primo smartphones with ultra data and web surfing plans. Or when they buy cars, boats, RVs, or anything else with money they shouldn’t spend. That’s their fucking fault not their employer’s for not paying them more.

There should be a safety net for people who really cannot afford to live. I agree with that, and those people cannot afford the flat tax. But those people are far, far fewer than people want to believe in order to rationalize their own stupid fiscal decisions.

162

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]limburg wrote:
Tax the $h1t out of non-neccessary medical procedures, i.e. face lifts, lipo, bleached teeth and use that money to help pay for BASIC health care needs.

Plus many people in the US blame someone else for their problems. “Its the government’s fault that X corp isn’t knocking at my door with at 6 figure job”

You want to talk about class equality? Let everyone pay their fair share. 15% tax on EVERYBODY. Oh you want to tax the to 2% over 60%? Kind of makes them worth more to the country than those that don’t pay anything.

I’m going to love the feedback on these…BRING IT![/quote]

I am not as contentious as you but how can some one that does not make enough to live pay %15 ? just curious [/quote]

well, i agree with you somewhat. But on the other hand, there are lots of people that are “not making a living wage” only because they are wasting hundreds of dollars, if not more, every month on premium cable, premium high speed internet, and premium cellphones with plans.

You don’t get to bitch about your wages being “non-livable” if you spend 100+ dollars a month on fucking [u]TV[/u]. And there are, quite literally, millions of these people. And I don’t have any fucking sympathy for the people that COULD live on their wages but choose instead to go buy a bunch of shit and services they don’t need with money they shouldn’t spend.

Another reason for the “non-livable” wage is bloated state and local gov’t. Looking at different cost of living adjustment sites, to live in New York City at the same quality of life level as someone in my area making $30,000 a year, you would have to make about $75,000!! Are you shitting me?? Fuck that, and fuck NYC’s bloat.

Certainly those reasons do not cover everybody. I am not saying that they do. But equally as certainly it is ASININE to expect that someone should have to give away that amount of money to bloated, inefficient and corrupt gov’t…or expect that gov’t should fix their money problems when they spend over 200 bucks a month on cable/satellite and primo smartphones with ultra data and web surfing plans. Or when they buy cars, boats, RVs, or anything else with money they shouldn’t spend. That’s their fucking fault not their employer’s for not paying them more.

There should be a safety net for people who really cannot afford to live. I agree with that, and those people cannot afford the flat tax. But those people are far, far fewer than people want to believe in order to rationalize their own stupid fiscal decisions.[/quote]

I heartliy agree, so long as the safety net is not run or financed at a federal level. The problem of “the poor” not paying into the system, is they have no vested interest in it. Much like a renter will not maintain a house like an owner will. They don’t care how much money is wasted, as none of it is their money. Then when you get to the point where 50%+ of the population pays $0 tax, you truely have class warfare.

163

I have an older buddy from Malta , he tells me that their welfare system is socialism , meaning if you get M-O-N-E-Y from the GOV. you also get with that a J-O-B. I like that, lazy people erk me too.But there is a percentage of our society that are going to be dependent

164

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I have an older buddy from Malta , he tells me that their welfare system is socialism , meaning if you get M-O-N-E-Y from the GOV. you also get with that a J-O-B. I like that, lazy people erk me too.But there is a percentage of our society that are going to be dependent[/quote]

Only if they have something to be dependant on…

165

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I have an older buddy from Malta , he tells me that their welfare system is socialism , meaning if you get M-O-N-E-Y from the GOV. you also get with that a J-O-B. I like that, lazy people erk me too.But there is a percentage of our society that are going to be dependent[/quote]

Only if they have something to be dependant on…[/quote]

At present they do have something to be dependent on

166

my 2c - basic, VERY basic level of healthcare should be free.
I’m not a doctor or an insurance salesman so I can’t really define “basic” but when getting even the weakest of antibiotics requires a 2 hour, $80 or so visit to a doctor, this shit has to be free.

yeah, some ppl don’t pay taxes but they are using the roads and the public school system etc. not much can be done there without resorting to rather totalitarian measures.

167

Another option is that this welfare stuff comes with another price. If you get welfare you should be required to perform some work for the government. Perhaps automatically signed up for jury duty, go work in a soup kitchen, something. Or provide an equivelant amount of skill training.

I went to monster.com and found over 1000 jobs in Atlanta. Rather than feeding people cash, feed them some job training so they can get off the government handouts. Kind of the same thing as beggers/panhandlers who want money for food. Try to buy them a big mac.

168

welfare - yes, there should mandatory drug testing (even if random) and some kind of a take-it-or-leave-it type job placement program.
healthcare is different though.

169

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why?

170

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
welfare - yes, there should mandatory drug testing (even if random) and some kind of a take-it-or-leave-it type job placement program.
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Drugs should be legal and as cheap as possible

171

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there.

172

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there. [/quote]

So you are willing to take money out of your paycheck to provide them with bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear?

173

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there. [/quote]

So you are willing to take money out of your paycheck to provide them with bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear?
[/quote]

No sir. Basic health coverage - yes. Even if they can afford it but chose to waste their money on something else.
Not talking complex procedures, costly surgeries etc - talking sinus infection, std treatments, etc.
Build a separate clinic stuffed with interns under a supervision of a licensed doc have a go at it. There will be long lines, lower quality care, but it’ll be free.
If someone shows up with a condition that goes out of scope for what they are doing for free - give them an option to pay to be treated. Something like that.

174

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there. [/quote]

So you are willing to take money out of your paycheck to provide them with bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear?
[/quote]

No sir. Basic health coverage - yes. Even if they can afford it but chose to waste their money on something else.
Not talking complex procedures, costly surgeries etc - talking sinus infection, std treatments, etc.
Build a separate clinic stuffed with interns under a supervision of a licensed doc have a go at it. There will be long lines, lower quality care, but it’ll be free.
If someone shows up with a condition that goes out of scope for what they are doing for free - give them an option to pay to be treated. Something like that.
[/quote]

But if you pay for any necessary items, it frees up their other money to spend on hoes, so the end result is you pay for them.

How is that any different than the intercity ER’s we have now?

175

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there. [/quote]

So you are willing to take money out of your paycheck to provide them with bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear?
[/quote]

No sir. Basic health coverage - yes. Even if they can afford it but chose to waste their money on something else.
Not talking complex procedures, costly surgeries etc - talking sinus infection, std treatments, etc.
Build a separate clinic stuffed with interns under a supervision of a licensed doc have a go at it. There will be long lines, lower quality care, but it’ll be free.
If someone shows up with a condition that goes out of scope for what they are doing for free - give them an option to pay to be treated. Something like that.
[/quote]

But if you pay for any necessary items, it frees up their other money to spend on hoes, so the end result is you pay for them.

How is that any different than the intercity ER’s we have now?
[/quote]

it doesn’t free up that much money - maybe enough for a crack whore, but that’s about it.
even if they need monthly doctor visit + pills we’re talking under $100 still in most cases.
things like urine analysis can be limited to once every 6 month or smth like that.

176

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:
healthcare is different though.[/quote]

Why? [/quote]

cuz no matter why someone doesn’t have health insurance - low income; pre-conditions that would make getting an insurance cost-prohibitive; money wasted on bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear - I don’t want sick people, especially with easily treatable but contagious conditions out there. [/quote]

So you are willing to take money out of your paycheck to provide them with bitches, hoes, burgers and metal gear?
[/quote]

No sir. Basic health coverage - yes. Even if they can afford it but chose to waste their money on something else.
Not talking complex procedures, costly surgeries etc - talking sinus infection, std treatments, etc.
Build a separate clinic stuffed with interns under a supervision of a licensed doc have a go at it. There will be long lines, lower quality care, but it’ll be free.
If someone shows up with a condition that goes out of scope for what they are doing for free - give them an option to pay to be treated. Something like that.
[/quote]

But if you pay for any necessary items, it frees up their other money to spend on hoes, so the end result is you pay for them.

How is that any different than the intercity ER’s we have now?
[/quote]

it doesn’t free up that much money - maybe enough for a crack whore, but that’s about it.
even if they need monthly doctor visit + pills we’re talking under $100 still in most cases.
things like urine analysis can be limited to once every 6 month or smth like that.

[/quote]

Here you go: https://www.nhchc.org/donate.html

You can now donate as much as you want and leave my income the hell alone.

Why is basic health care more important than food, cloths and housing?

177

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

Here you go: https://www.nhchc.org/donate.html

You can now donate as much as you want and leave my income the hell alone.

Why is basic health care more important than food, cloths and housing? [/quote]

Because there’s a difference between someone who’s sick and is spreading a contagious disease and someone who has holes in their shoes.
You can save your “zomg leave my money alone” rhetoric for some liberal tool who wants to tax everything, I’m not saying let’s increase taxes to get this funded.

Mandatory job placement for welfare recipients could free up some funds, not allowing kids who’s parents are here illegally into public school system could sure as fuck free up some funds, etc.
Cut their foodstamps and provide them with basic healthcare instead.
Just a matter of prioritizing.

178

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

Here you go: https://www.nhchc.org/donate.html

You can now donate as much as you want and leave my income the hell alone.

Why is basic health care more important than food, cloths and housing? [/quote]

Because there’s a difference between someone who’s sick and is spreading a contagious disease and someone who has holes in their shoes.
You can save your “zomg leave my money alone” rhetoric for some liberal tool who wants to tax everything, I’m not saying let’s increase taxes to get this funded.

Mandatory job placement for welfare recipients could free up some funds, not allowing kids who’s parents are here illegally into public school system could sure as fuck free up some funds, etc.
Cut their foodstamps and provide them with basic healthcare instead.
Just a matter of prioritizing.
[/quote]

So basic health care trumps food?

I’m just trying to understand your position.

179

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

Here you go: https://www.nhchc.org/donate.html

You can now donate as much as you want and leave my income the hell alone.

Why is basic health care more important than food, cloths and housing? [/quote]

Because there’s a difference between someone who’s sick and is spreading a contagious disease and someone who has holes in their shoes.
You can save your “zomg leave my money alone” rhetoric for some liberal tool who wants to tax everything, I’m not saying let’s increase taxes to get this funded.

Mandatory job placement for welfare recipients could free up some funds, not allowing kids who’s parents are here illegally into public school system could sure as fuck free up some funds, etc.
Cut their foodstamps and provide them with basic healthcare instead.
Just a matter of prioritizing.
[/quote]

So basic health care trumps food?

I’m just trying to understand your position.

[/quote]

It’s a balancing act. Yes, I think funds that go into the welfare system can and should be redistributed to carve out enough to cover basic healthcare needs.

180

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

Here you go: https://www.nhchc.org/donate.html

You can now donate as much as you want and leave my income the hell alone.

Why is basic health care more important than food, cloths and housing? [/quote]

Because there’s a difference between someone who’s sick and is spreading a contagious disease and someone who has holes in their shoes.
You can save your “zomg leave my money alone” rhetoric for some liberal tool who wants to tax everything, I’m not saying let’s increase taxes to get this funded.

Mandatory job placement for welfare recipients could free up some funds, not allowing kids who’s parents are here illegally into public school system could sure as fuck free up some funds, etc.
Cut their foodstamps and provide them with basic healthcare instead.
Just a matter of prioritizing.
[/quote]

So basic health care trumps food?

I’m just trying to understand your position.

[/quote]

It’s a balancing act. Yes, I think funds that go into the welfare system can and should be redistributed to carve out enough to cover basic healthcare needs.
[/quote]

I still stand by my premise that the Fed Govt should have no welfare system at all. Everyone either earns their own way or throws themselves on the mercy of private charity.